Suggesting Open World PVP!!!

Hi There one and all! I'm hoping to catch the attention of Hironobu Sakaguchi and the wonderful people who work on Final Fantasy XIV. You have been doing a wonderful job with all the new content and even attempting to pull more people into the awesome world of PVP. We are a huge pvp nuts. It brings about a whole nother world from PVE and makes you think on the fly, to figure out how best to defeat your opponent. It is something myself and my hubby both love to do as well as a lot of other people we know.

One of the biggest complaints we have continuously heard since we started playing has ALWAYS been about the que times for PVP. There have been so many conversations about que times it is unreal. We have sat numerous times in ques for 2 hours or more waiting for a pop for pvp for roulette and also for just regular ques and have failed to obtain a que which is very disappointing.



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When we've talked about pvp, we have thought that an open world pvp would be a great fit here. You could keep the 3 grand companies and have separate bases evenly matched out in locations from each other. You could incorporate all the different spawns that have been created for all of the different maps that could spawn at different times in different areas of the map so there could be a rush for each spot to conquer and maintain control over each place. There would be no long wait times for ques and people would be able to meet up with other for dueling or work in groups to beat each other.

It would be a great opportunity to even incorporate new and different kinds of bosses that would spawn to create new events in that part of this new world.

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We have played games prior with the open world concept and it has been such an incredible experience. We believe this would be something that people would stay around for and not stop subing to play some other form of pvp else where. It would bring about a whole new feel for FFXIV. There are so many possibilities with an open world concept.

We hope that this will bring about lots of ideas from everyone in the FFXIV community and also the great creators of FFXIV themselves.

Thanks so Much!!

Mai Rice & Ambush Theory

The topic has been brought up more than once. Lore-wise it would conflict as a large theme of the game/world is people working together to recover from the calamity of 7 years ago (and the current PvP model serves as joint military training as well as "sport" to settle land disputes). From a gameplay standpoint, many things would require such a rework that it would be more trouble than its worth to implement (i.e. a WHM uses Assize during a hunt, heals their team, but has now just attacked everyone else). Consider also crafting and gathering, as many nodes exist even in dangerous open world areas. To add the threat of other players to the already present PvE threats might discourage gathering, which would hold dire market reprocussions. Consider also fates, seasonal events, class/job quests, class/job balances, and hunts/treasure hunts.

That's not to say they haven't entertained the idea of PvP servers if there were enough demand, but as many players of this game are not interested in open world PvP, for many of the reasons I listed above, the likelyhood of that in this game is rather slim. Even if they were to implement a system similar to Blade & Soul where wearing PvP/Faction gear allows you to target/be targeted, most would still be turned off, turned away from the game, or just simply never wear it. Consider also exploitation (i.e. I as a MCH could lie in wait for healers, out of sight near their job quest markers, equip my PvP gear, attack, then just unequip it between attacks).

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy PvP in this game, but as it currently is, open world PvP would be tough to implement, and a possible detriment, and/or an underused resource in the form of a dedicated server. We already have rather small PvE servers as is. I'd rather they work to improve/solidify what we have and build upon it than to try to reinvent the wheel if only to satisfy a (currently) low demand for open world PvP.

To sum up...

Mairice
you're asking for a front (3 compagnie spawn base)
Transpose as a real area (like central coerthas)
With random boss spawn (like fate)

Hum yeah no
Gatherer are not happy about free pvp
Especially on rare short timed spot !

I'd turn Secure and Slaughter into an open world PvP zone, personally... I mean, it's already dead, changing it would give it a new purpose at least...

Just change the objectives to FATEs, maybe throw in some NPCs to fluff numbers... So your Grand Company outpost is defended by NPCs, hopefully preventing spawn camping and giving us something to whack if nobody else is around... Have the other locations set up as FATEs; Either to take or defend, for example, the Allagan Markets. Then just make it so node spawns are FATEs as well... Can slap NPCs in all of those, but like regular FATEs the NPCs would have no real impact in the outcome, it would be up to the players to complete the FATEs, except unlike regular FATEs PvP could potentially be involved if other players for the rival Grand Company are present...

Done, much of the spirit of Secure/Slaughter remains, but now we can get in instantly to mess around there... Change winning a match to winning a FATE as far as achievements/rewards go... Perhaps work in something new to create interest in the area... Would be interesting IMO, and much better than leaving the place to gather dust...

Wouldnt fit into the lore... No.

I can imagine Diadem + Frontline merger that consists of instances with with PVPVE elements if/when the run goes bad.

If your group can't clear the regular PVE objectives (Boss) within a tight amount of time (essentially requiring a 'perfect run,' not screwing up Raid-wide CC or boss Defense+ mechanics that prolong the encounter), the objective resets (becoming more of a PVPVE), and is opened up to 8 players from each of the other GCs queue in.

They fight you in this new objective and the last team standing and/or satisfying PVPVE objectives wins the loot.

An NPC in each of the GC hubs could list active GC-Diadem runs, and makes a bubble text announcement (Like GATES in Gold Saucer) when there's a Diadem run that can be poached (Data Center-wide would be nice).

Gotta be some good loot in that diadem instance. Like, Scorpion Harness rare.

Wouldn't even have to be tied to GC factions,

*There would be the allowance timer just as there is for Diadem now, except poaching other players doesn't cost or require the allowance. Meaning you can do your personal diadem run, but afterwards if you want to do more you'll have to stalk the GC hub as a pirate/poacher

small anecdote:

A favorite moment of mine in FFXI was camping Enkelados, find him, he charms me (it's like 5-10 minute debuff iirc), Gil Seller waddles in, thinks he can poach Enkelados from me. Since I'm charmed though, I'm attacking him once he engages Enkelados. I kill him. Then I get Enkelados for myself. Wish i still had the screenshots. "So-and-so was defeated by Darius" was my forum sig (over a decade ago) for a long time.

Take that concept, then turn it into a PVP battle-ground with just enough PVE elements so players can avoid the PVP zerg, but if they screw up the PVE aspect, pain train comin'.

**Sorry just to expand one more time:

Regarding queue times, the problem isn't that queues are too long. The problem is we queue, period. People don't 'queue' for a PVP instance. PVP conflicts occur based upon player activity and opportunity. EVE Online, those big battles you see on youtube? They didn't start because two opposing factions had 8 or 24 players sitting around thinking, "Hmm I want to PVP against someone."

Just one individual or a small group do something slightly inconsequential and possibly totally unrelated to PVP (FFXIV equivalent: spawn an S rank Hunt), but a small skirmish could be triggered, and that skirmish can snowball into a server wide fight.

***tl;dr
Whether it's open-world or in an instance isn't really the issue, it's about how these PVP events are triggered. PVP could have triggers that a single player or group can orchestrate, not triggers based on how many folks happen to be 'in queue' at any one time.

A diadem-esque free-for-all mode with objectives such as "kill x amount of players" and "assist x NPCs" would end up turning into a mode where players just wait for there friends in a certain area and then farm each other/NPC's to get what they want. It also doesn't do well with the lore, so it has to be more than that.

So perhaps a mode where we enter this diadem-esque area with a token which we drop on death that can be recollected, hunterxhunter style. If someone gets enough tokens by killing enough different players they can exchange it for certain items/glamour only avaiable in the area. However when a player has a certain amount of medals it shows as a debuff, making them somewhat of a target to attentive players.

Also, remodelling the Wolves Den Pier area would be a step in the right direction. Right now it just looks unfinished and very plain when compared to any other hub area in the entire game. It might sound strange but having an aethetically pleasing place where people would like to afk would do a lot of the traffic of the area, drawing more attention to it in general.

Even one of these suggestions would go a long way to making PVP a core part of the game.

wouldn't work here

As to a scenario where one group helps another. So what? Welcome to sand-box gaming! Friends are an asset (even across GCs) and it's completely fair to utilize them.

Up until they stab you in the back, of course ^^

We're not talking about changing the existing world. We are talking about creating a new open world PVP map. Totally seperate from the PVE content.

this would NOT be an all over open world. Just a new map/open world map for pvp. PVE would stay the same.

Just the same...just imagine blowing a lala away as mch the second he stepped outta Limsa. As a gatherer, having to watch your back and second guess that casual bystander when they inch closer to you. Won't happen ya, but man that'd be fun lolol.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

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Those problems are only problems if PvP is active all the time for all players. No one is asking for that. It would not be fun at all, unless on an anarchy map. No, you have a PvP flag you have to enable yourself, or a "challenge" system (just like request meld, you could request PvP). When PvP active you can only attack other PvP active players. You'd have to be DoW or DoM and not participate in any other content like FATEs, hunts, maps, etc.

It would still be hard to implement though.

Lore? There are some FATEs you fight some random dudes for some reason; drunk, practice, etc. Lore for open world PvP could be something similar.

If PvP queues are an eternity because there's less people doing it, what makes you think a separate server for open world pvp would have a sufficient populace? This idea would be dead in the water because it seems like people give no hoots about PvP.

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Originally Posted by MaiRice

this would NOT be an all over open world. Just a new map/open world map for pvp. PVE would stay the same.

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We have it, it's called Frontline...

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Originally Posted by Eul

We have it, it's called Frontline...

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Which isn't open world... We have no open world PvP, if we did I'd be slightly less bored when waiting for queues...

Also add a boss that randomly spawns once every day at random time on that map that drop a unique drop for the party that did most DPS on it.
Make him drop something crazy but like really rare, only 365 of this item per year!
An item to trade for a unique crazy looking weapon.

There, you now have a PvP zone that's going to be active most of the time.

(PS : Have the item beeing rolled or just randomly given after the boss dies, this way you only get 1 weapon per boss killed instead of 8.) Rarity is cool.

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Originally Posted by MaiRice

We're not talking about changing the existing world. We are talking about creating a new open world PVP map. Totally seperate from the PVE content.

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When its seperated from the PVE content, then its not open world PvP.
All 4 grand companies (Uldah, Gridania, Limsa and Ishgard) have no reason to fight each other in the open world.

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

When its seperated from the PVE content, then its not open world PvP.

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Uhm...minor nitpick:

When it is separated from the open world, then it's not open world PvP. A dedicated PvP zone which you can just walk into anytime like the rest of the open world would be open world PvP as well, even if not a single node nor mob was to be seen.

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Originally Posted by MaiRice

Hi There one and all! I'm hoping to catch the attention of Hironobu Sakaguchi and the wonderful people who work on Final Fantasy XIV.

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Sadly appealing to Sakaguchi won't be very useful as he is longer part of Square Enix let alone no longer having any ties to the FF series like FFXIV (he left the company over a decade ago) - I think you're confusing him with Naoki Yoshida (aka 'Yoshi-P'), who is the actual producer and director for FFXIV.

As for open world PvP, I've said it before and my opinion has not changed - I'm afraid I have to say a big categorical 'no'. I've played other MMORPGs with open-world PvP and every one of them I have been victimized, harassed and taunted simply because I don't want to accept a stupid duel when challenged by other players (I've even been harassed by players who were supposedly on my own side!). So it's really darkened my opinion on open-world PvP sadly.

That's not to say I don't support PvP period for those who want it, as long as it's separate from the main game and players cannot simply go up to another and challenge them to duels (for instance, Ul'dah's Colosseum would be a perfect place for it). But open-world dueling between adventurers... no.

Not only does it not fit the game's lore at all (we're all meant to be on the same side here), the aforementioned harassment I experienced in other games turned me off the whole concept I'm sorry to say.

God no. Please don't turn FFXIV into another Black Desert Online. Fighting people for grind spots. People randomly ganking you cause they are jerks and didn't like where you were. Killing people who are just trying to make a living gathering. Unless you mean a specific area where people only go into for pvp and nothing else then maybe. Elsewise no, I would hate to see open world pvp in this game.

I believe you wanna do just like Aion did. That's working perfectly well there, BUT, we do not have our jobs made for it. Open world PvP means savage 1v1 ( most of the time).Which means everyone should be able to defend himself. This is not the case actually for healers.... (Aion gave them this possibility, but SE didn't.) Cleric stance is actually Killing the thing, and most of the players do not want to see healers more "hybrid typed."

But yeah, That would be cool.

I'm going to throw out my opinion.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

I would love a open world pvp server. They could introduce a new story that involves the factions battling it out on open land to challenge each other. Like others have said, practice against each other in efforts to prepare for any problems. So everyone saying it doesn't fit the lore are silly. The lore can easily incorporate a open world pvp. It's not the lore, it's the implementation that would be the big struggle.

Here's a few things that has been listed as problematic for a open world pvp server:

1. Fates - As many people would be worried for fates in a open world pvp server, I think a easy solution would be Fate/Party Immunity. Everyone in the fate, or in a party, can't be hunted down by others in the same fate/party. This would encourage people even more to be in a party for fate grinds. Also they need to remove the ridiculous can't queue while in party thing. No other game has that. Anyway I digress....

2. Gatherers - Super simple to fix. While in a gathering class you are immune from PvP. If changed for Lore purposes, it would make sense. You would only be battling other people of a different faction to practice and duel. There would be no purpose to fight a defenseless gatherer. Specially a cute lala gatherer! (Even though they are sly conniving little beasts.)

3. Gameplay - Do what other games do. When triggered into PvP combat in World PvP all skills and stats change to the same as in Frontline. So everything changed for PvP would still have a affect in world PvP. Doesn't SE like a challenege? Come on, I think they are clever enough to tackle this on.

So there you have it. My two cents.

I opt-out on open world pvp never did like it, even on eve online while mining I was attack by npc then while my shield was down a player who was watching attack just took the opportunity and blew me up. I rather have the team work on making FF14 an Open world like back then in 1.0 even tho it was copy n paste at certain entrances, exploring was engaging

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Not only does it not fit the game's lore at all (we're all meant to be on the same side here)

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Really? We've had two major events of note that scream otherwise; The Grand Melee recently, and our duel with Hoary Boulder and Coultene way back when... Friendly competitions between allies seem fairly well established in the lore already... You can go further if you delve into some of the Class/Job quests, where similar competitive events are held between smaller groups... I mean, Limsa is a freakin' pirate town... Friendly duels seem tame in comparison to most of the events that go on there...

Harassment seems like a non issue to me, since for starters you can report people for it and/or just straight up blacklist them, but this game is not a major PvP game... I really doubt a significant portion of players will care about such a feature for harassment of it to become anywhere near common enough to worry about... Might as well be complaining we can trade, because a few ass-hats opt to trade to cancel things like teleports... Yes it's harassment, but it is no where near as common enough to warrant removing a valuable feature like trading... Worst case, SE can just remove duels if harassment becomes an issue... If, like the rest of PvP, SE adds it and 90% of the games population carries on blissfully unaware of it, then I see absolutely no problem with duels or the occasional solitary open world PvP zone... Most of you saying "No!" already never visit Wolves' Den Pier (and most of us saying "Yes!" already have little reason to either), how would a similar area, just with PvP enabled, be any different?

That's before we even get into things like an opt-in system (so everyone is opted out of accepting duels by default) or a requirement for even unlocking duels... If you PvP and don't want duels, then there is still maybe an issue, but if your PvP rank is 1 and you've not intention of ever seeing it rise, and you need a rank of 10 to even unlock duels? Harassment is still possible of course, but that strikes me as harassing a Lv40 because they don't do the DPS required to beat Sephirot (EX)...

I stated before that the idea wouldn't work, largely due to low demand, and perhaps low participation. Even if there were a specialized, non-instanced PvP zone, only the few of us who enjoy PvP would go there. And for that same reason, it would get boring rather quickly. If we went the route of toggling statuses, most would simply leave it off. And a 1v1 duel system (kinda like Triple Triad technically) would of course be optional, with most players likely choosing not to. (I for one certainly don't accept random TT match requests).

Again, not saying these are bad ideas. I'm simply saying they're impractical under the current gameplay systems in place, and wouldn't take with a playerbase that already largely ignores PvP.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

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I too have experienced the same thing. Once in a game I was harassed so badly, all I could do is cry because it was constantly 5 vs 1. Anyways but people are forgetting that such things like a pvp toggle exists. It's a simple thing that everyone tends to over look and forget. You don't want to pvp? Keep it off, if you want to pvp? Turn it on and everyone will be happy. No one is being forced, no one is being harassed, as for the lore. Just say you're not actually being killed, just knocked unconscious like whenever people are fighting the Carteneau Flats.

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Originally Posted by Caitlyn

When its seperated from the PVE content, then its not open world PvP.
All 4 grand companies (Uldah, Gridania, Limsa and Ishgard) have no reason to fight each other in the open world.

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Then add a side quest that would get you swear an allegiance for a PvP faction that would add a reason to fight each others, it doesn't have to be the three grand company.

For anyone that played Shaiya in it's early days, I think that kind of PvP was the best, having a map that is not an instance but it's an open map made for PvP only.

The Diadem(savage) I imagine...