Token exchange for the Primal Birds

I really wish I could trade in 99 tokens for a bird:( I'm at about 185 Thordan kills and counting...

I think this is a fine idea, but I really do not want it yet. only 99 runs means that a lot more people will get them which statistically means that it is a nerf, a nerf which should be saved for when the content begins to become irrelevant. In 2.55 SE made buffs to pony drop rates and on my server at least it revitalized the content because everyone was farming to get kirin, and I think that the token idea should be saved for at least 3.5 or even 3.55/4.0

Here you go: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...lanner-whistle

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I think this is a fine idea, but I really do not want it yet. only 99 runs means that a lot more people will get them which statistically means that it is a nerf, a nerf which should be saved for when the content begins to become irrelevant. In 2.55 SE made buffs to pony drop rates and on my server at least it revitalized the content because everyone was farming to get kirin, and I think that the token idea should be saved for at least 3.5 or even 3.55/4.0

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lol at "only 99 runs"
People like me dont even care about this really broken rng stuff to get just 1 mount o_O
I wouldnt even do 5 runs, or even 1!

I think the idea is that if you're proficient enough to clear the content THAT much and still haven't gotten a mount by then, you ought to be rewarded at least SOMEHOW. And when you consider at the moment clearing trials 10 times gets you a weapon and 15 a barding, why not provide that extra little incentive?

It's a win/win: SE maintains a bottom line of people continuing to run that content, and players are guaranteed to get what they want, if not within 99 runs of something, then definitely once they've come that far.

Yeah, as I linked from my own thread. I had to do bismark EX 331 times to finally win the white lanner mount. I helped quite a few people get their clears and if you do the math on it: 331 runs at 8 minutes a run, thats roughly 44.13333 hours of doing NOTHING but that fight. So yeah, people should definitely be able to turn in those tokens for mounts. Even if it's 99 of them.

Keep up the Lanner Whistle x99 tokens up, I made mine a long while ago!...

It's just frustrating to run the same trial over and over and not even see the birds drop consistently, I have no birds yet and I'm currently waiting for SE to increase drop rate before bothering with it again!...

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Originally Posted by SigmaOZ

I have no birds yet and I'm currently waiting for SE to increase drop rate before bothering with it again!...

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That's exactly what I am doing. I don't want to farm those primals for days or maybe even weeks to finally get the bird. I actually like the idea of 99x token for a bird, it seems fair to get it after so many times.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

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"Only 99 runs"? If you did run the same trial 99+ times and didn't get what you wanted there's an issue there. Problem is not even seeing the thing but someone gettin it but actually 99+ runs WITHOUT a single appearance of the loot. I've been farming for the Ravana bird for weeks, I managed to get all weapons for all my jobs with tokens only to see that bird drop once. Not to mention the times where I ventured on duty finder and Vote Abandon happened. Look at tank mounts: What makes people do that is because they know they will be rewarded for those 200 runs, that adds to the fun of it and you're not limited to the same duty. Listening to "PREPARE THYSELF!" two hundred times isn't. ):

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

I think this is a fine idea, but I really do not want it yet. only 99 runs means that a lot more people will get them which statistically means that it is a nerf, a nerf which should be saved for when the content begins to become irrelevant. In 2.55 SE made buffs to pony drop rates and on my server at least it revitalized the content because everyone was farming to get kirin, and I think that the token idea should be saved for at least 3.5 or even 3.55/4.0

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Yes a nerf on mount drops that doesn't impact any gameplay. There was no reason for the drops to be so low in 2.0 and certainly not now in 3.0, the mounts aren't like the weapons which in some cases could be the best obtainable weapon at the time nor can we use the mounts as a companion. All the mounts are and will forever be is something that just stands out and say "Hey look at me my RNG was good today." We have a bad system, it needs to be reevaluated.

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Originally Posted by AsahinaMyLove

only 99 runs

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Originally Posted by DevilsDontFly

only 99 runs

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Yes, only 99. Total. Ever. That isn't very many. Think about it this way, the gear is obsolete at this point and the only reason to run the content at all is for the mount, and if you get the mount (let's be hyperbolic and say they announce this and everyone grinds 99 runs in a week - thats ~14 runs per day) suddenly nobody is running the content anymore. The content is still classed as relevant content for the expansion, and once it's interest dwindles and we look towards the expansion, we will likely see this change.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

Yes a nerf on mount drops that doesn't impact any gameplay. There was no reason for the drops to be so low in 2.0 and certainly not now in 3.0, the mounts aren't like the weapons which in some cases could be the best obtainable weapon at the time nor can we use the mounts as a companion. All the mounts are and will forever be is something that just stands out and say "Hey look at me my RNG was good today." We have a bad system, it needs to be reevaluated.

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Let me start by clearing some air on this, whether it affects gameplay or not, you are not entitled to a RARE drop. Mounts are designed as an incentive to run the content regardless of how outdated the content is. RNG is a bad system, but it is the best system for extending the life span of content, because it keeps you running it potentially indefinitely. The alternative is gating, which you DEFINITELY do not want.

Final note: my original post said that I want this change, so I'm not disagreeing with it as a QoL change, only adding to it

Sure, why not.

You can solo/duo all of Kirin now since you still get echo in unsync. Some of them are tough like Ifrit and Ramuh but its doable.

I wouldn't just do it with normal tokens though. That's too simple.

I would do 10-20 different tokens. You only get a token if you roll on a bird and lose. I think if you lose the bird roll on the same primal 10-20 times that's enough BS.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Let me start by clearing some air on this, whether it affects gameplay or not, you are not entitled to a RARE drop. Mounts are designed as an incentive to run the content regardless of how outdated the content is. RNG is a bad system, but it is the best system for extending the life span of content, because it keeps you running it potentially indefinitely. The alternative is gating, which you DEFINITELY do not want.

Final note: my original post said that I want this change, so I'm not disagreeing with it as a QoL change, only adding to it

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Let me give you a huge correction that seems many in this community don't get, you, me and any player is entitled to the option of obtaining gear, mounts and seasonal items this game has to offer if we're all putting in the work. The current RNG based system does exactly what you say you don't want, we already deal with RNG gates between relic weapons and even the kirin mount. It can stay a rare drop all it wants, but the devs need realize that excessive running of content isn't the proper way to revitalize content, it's a cheap gimmick that they put into place because they have no other solutions as to what to do at the current time.

Hopefully they'll just nerf the drop rate every major patch from now on like they did with the ponies. Not interested in farming a .05% mount right now.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

But the devs need realize that excessive running of content isn't the proper way to revitalize content, it's a cheap gimmick that they put into place because they have no other solutions as to what to do at the current time.

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The problem with this is the same problem with weekly caps (and why they are there), which is that if people can get it done in one go, they will, and like I said, 99 runs is not much in the grand scheme of things (I haven't even been farming and I have 30-40 of some just lying around). I can see the devs improving the drop rate of the mount and then adding this, but I would expect (and hope) these changes coming in 3.45-3.55 at the earliest.

Essentially giving eight mounts out per 99 runs really, REALLY nerfs the drop rate.

I bet if the devs bothered to enter these threads they'd have a devilish grin on their faces.

"Working as intended."

Expect arbitrary % drop increases spaced-out between patches, just as the 2.0 primal mounts were. We're repeating the 2.0 cycle after all. It's worked this long.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

Let me give you a huge correction that seems many in this community don't get, you, me and any player is entitled to the option of obtaining gear, mounts and seasonal items this game has to offer if we're all putting in the work. The current RNG based system does exactly what you say you don't want, we already deal with RNG gates between relic weapons and even the kirin mount. It can stay a rare drop all it wants, but the devs need realize that excessive running of content isn't the proper way to revitalize content, it's a cheap gimmick that they put into place because they have no other solutions as to what to do at the current time.

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That doesn't make you entitled to it. Primal pigeons, like their pony brethren, are meant to be bonus rewards, which differs from gear needed to actually complete content. You don't need them for anything except vanity. I'm not saying that's at all a bad reason though. What your asking for will inevitably diminish old trials. People who want these pigeons will farm Thordan, Ravana and Bismarck 99 times and never queue again unless they're doing roulettes. As frustrating as RNG can be, it guarantees people will keep doing content. The devs don't intend for you to grind Thordan EX 20-50+ times a day. They want you to pace yourself throughout the entire two year patch cycle so new players will always have people queuing. That's the real reason these mounts exist.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Yes, only 99. Total. Ever. That isn't very many.

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Look, no. You're wrong and that's a crazy way to look at it.

There's "rare" and then there's "unreasonable."

Dear SE, Please make the birds be able to be gotten with 99 tokens, so that later we can complain that 99 tokens is too much and should be reduced to 50.

In all seriousness though, i think these suggestions go against the reason they added the mounts into the trials in the first place. Which was to incentivize people to run the trials more than the x amount of times it takes to get the weapon. So the content doesn't become dead 8 weeks after it comes out. I really don't care one way or the other though.

Toward the end of the expansion they will increase the drop rate more than likely anyways. I don't think they WANT them to be easy to get right now.

I am just waiting for the drop rate to increase. The drop rate is way too low and then on top of that rolling against 7 other people for it.

Only 99 runs? Like thats a low number

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

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So if you go to work for 40 hours or whatever are you not entitled to a paycheck? If you're putting in the work to run the content you should be able to obtain the reward regardless, that's the whole point of running it. You can't say "oh if they gave people tokens for it they'd get that number and quit running" so what about a player running first time and getting the drop, and that player never ques again? And no RNG doesn't guarantee anyone will continue to do content, many people in this post have stated they won't do it because of the low RNG. Adding tokens don't diminish anything so I don't know where you get that from, the weapons already require tokens and people still seek them out for glamour purposes. If a higher RNG would weaken old trials then why are old trials still popping up for pony and weapon farms?

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

So if you go to work for 40 hours or whatever are you not entitled to a paycheck? If you're putting in the work to run the content you should be able to obtain the reward regardless, that's the whole point of running it. You can't say "oh if they gave people tokens for it they'd get that number and quit running" so what about a player running first time and getting the drop, and that player never ques again? And no RNG doesn't guarantee anyone will continue to do content, many people in this post have stated they won't do it because of the low RNG. Adding tokens don't diminish anything so I don't know where you get that from, the weapons already require tokens and people still seek them out for glamour purposes. If a higher RNG would weaken old trials then why are old trials still popping up for pony and weapon farms?

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Work =/= Bonus reward

You do. The reward is better gear. Primal pigeons exist solely for incentive to repeatedly running that content beyond its relevance so new players won't experience long queue times. Unlike that potential gear upgrade, you don't need this vanity item. It's the equivalent of a lottery ticket or gambling Vegas. You aren't entitled to win just because you paid money.

What of it? For every lucky player who got a pigeon early another is still queuing up Thordan EX for the umpteenth time. People posting on a forum not even three pages doesn't equate to the fanbase a large. In fact, forum posts in general make up a very small fragment of any fanbase. Regardless, queue for Heavensward primal continue to be fairly quick while ARR primals seem to queue only at certain times now. And they pop because of RNG. Those players don't have their ponies and have no means of getting them buy farming Titan or Garuda however many times it takes. I don't have any, which means unless I find a group, I'll be using the DF until I do.

If you aren't willing to chance these low odds, well, you can simply wait until 3.55 or thereabouts when they up rates in the wake of a new expansion launching. So there's your nerf.

Honestly, I'm leaning towards some sort of guarantee to it, simply because farms always seem to fall apart after the first three runs that don't drop anything.

I have better things to do than sit around waiting for people to check party finder and decide "Yeah, I'll run that".

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Primal pigeons exist solely for incentive repeatedly running that content beyond its relevance so new players won't experience long queue times.

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Ok, this train of logic needs to stop.

Realistically, people "farm" these mounts in farm parties. That means most people run it in PF parties that value speed of killing the primal over carrying new players and waiting in a queue for a party that might not even be able to kill the primal in the first place. The way people go about trying to get these mounts mostly doesn't even support "clearing it for new players" when most Party Finder mount farm parties only want experienced people who can kill it in their sleep. Yes, there's players out there who, through some act of RNGesus, managed to score the mount in there, but players who acquire the mount that way are most likely a tiny minority (and incredibly lucky).

If the devs are concerned about DF queue times for players needing these primals and are trying to draw people in with these pigeons, they're best off making them drop with noticeably higher frequency for non-full parties using the DF, otherwise people serious about farming them will simply look for 7 other non-new players.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

Ok, this train of logic needs to stop.

Realistically, people "farm" these mounts in farm parties. That means most people run it in PF parties that value speed of killing the primal over carrying new players and waiting in a queue for a party that might not even be able to kill the primal in the first place. The way people go about trying to get these mounts mostly doesn't even support "clearing it for new players" when most Party Finder mount farm parties only want experienced people who can kill it in their sleep. Yes, there's players out there who, through some act of RNGesus, managed to score the mount in there, but players who acquire the mount that way are most likely a tiny minority (and incredibly lucky).

If the devs are concerned about DF queue times for players needing these primals and are trying to draw people in with these pigeons, they're best off making them drop with noticeably higher frequency for non-full parties using the DF, otherwise people serious about farming them will simply look for 7 other non-new players.

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And how are those parties formed? Through PF, which may involve random newer players wanting more experience even if they aren't entirely new to the fight itself. PFs that don't fill up may end up queuing anyway, thus grabbing randoms. Regardless, that doesn't mean people aren't solo queuing on their own. A lot do, which is why EX modes pop friendly regularly.

Nonsense. People would still queue with friends first. In fact, they'd be even more likely to because they could do it over a weekend, get their mounts and never touch the content again outside of roulettes.

Again. If you don't want to chance low odds, don't. They will inevitably be increased sometime before 4.0. Why do you need the mount now? You don't. You want it. Well then, you have to deal with atrociously low odds. That's the trade off for wanting it on release instead of a year later. Back before Heavensward, very few people had ponies. Now everyone does.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

And how are those parties formed? Through PF, which may involve random newer players wanting more experience even if they aren't entirely new to the fight itself. PFs that don't fill up may end up queuing anyway, thus grabbing randoms. Regardless, that doesn't mean people aren't solo queuing on their own. A lot do, which is why EX modes pop friendly regularly.

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And we all know how well most stories involving new players joining farm parties end up, right? And I never said people aren't solo queuing for primals with mount drops; it's just clearly so much less frequent due to most preferring to join parties with fast and easy kills. And most PF parties I've seen/been in for mount farming disband/wait if they can't get the full 8.

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Nonsense. People would still queue with friends first. In fact, they'd be even more likely to because they could do it over a weekend, get their mounts and never touch the content again outside of roulettes.

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This is actually more or less proving my point. That people would run these duties with acquaintances and get what they want, server side, and then never touch the content again. People would rather do these fights with either people they are familiar with or can have a better degree of trust for success through PF than blindly going into DF; which has a nice little thread floating around about the "horrors" of it. Not sure why you felt the need to bring up running with friends when you're advocating this being for new players in DF queues.

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Again. If you don't want to chance low odds, don't. They will inevitably be increased sometime before 4.0. Why do you need the mount now? You don't. You want it. Well then, you have to deal with atrociously low odds. That's the trade off for wanting it on release instead of a year later. Back before Heavensward, very few people had ponies. Now everyone does.

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Right. So that's why most people end up doing these mount farms server-side to hang on to some small hope that people in their party are decent enough to hang around for more drops after they win a roll, in addition to knowing that your party can consistently beat it. Again, I don't know why you're bringing up these being a luxury rather than a necessity when the argument is that claiming SE adds the mount as a "bonus" to get people to help new players is erroneous when the majority of interested players will be running the primals with fellow-experienced players.

Just throwing my 2 cents in but if I am actively looking to farm, I agree I am not going to look for newbies who want to clear it, I am going to hunt for those like mind people who know the fight all the way through and won't screw up. Its an incentive to keep running it, but not for newbies for the most part. Sure I may bring some along if they ask for the clear or I feel they can but if the intent is to farm birds, well newbies wait outside.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Again. If you don't want to chance low odds, don't. They will inevitably be increased sometime before 4.0. Why do you need the mount? You don't. You want it.

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FIFY

Think about it, functionally you only need the Chocobo. Every other mount is there for epeen's and collectability's sake. And the desire is what keeps content relevant (though not necessarily for DF.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

And we all know how well most stories involving new players joining farm parties end up, right? And I never said people aren't solo queuing for primals with mount drops; it's just clearly so much less frequent due to most preferring to join parties with fast and easy kills. And most PF parties I've seen/been in for mount farming disband/wait if they can't get the full 8.

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In NA. You have to remember a large portion of this game's fanbase comes from Japan. They Duty Find Savage from the moment it launches. It works as intended for JP players because they frequently DF everything. That said, people's umbrage with other players is not a problem of the developers. While doubtless you'll see awful players try to sneak into a PF for an easy carry, you'll see plenty of impatient players who nitpick the slight miscue. I see plenty of PFs with no requirements except decent enough gear.

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This is actually more or less proving my point. That people would run these duties with acquaintances and get what they want, server side, and then never touch the content again. People would rather do these fights with either people they are familiar with or can have a better degree of trust for success through PF than blindly going into DF; which has a nice little thread floating around about the "horrors" of it. Not sure why you felt the need to bring up running with friends when you're advocating this being for new players in DF queues.

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No, it really doesn't. People will usually opt for grouping with friends over randoms if possible. RNG makes it so those who desperately want these mounts immediately will solo queue or do half parties when their friends simply refuse to keep trying. Were it a guaranteed drop at x99 attempts or less, they won't need to, and can instead plan ten runs a day to get their mount in a little under two weeks. Although more popular in Japan than North America, it does keep queues active.

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Right. So that's why most people end up doing these mount farms server-side to hang on to some small hope that people in their party are decent enough to hang around for more drops after they win a roll, in addition to knowing that your party can consistently beat it. Again, I don't know why you're bringing up these being a luxury rather than a necessity when the argument is that claiming SE adds the mount as a "bonus" to get people to help new players is erroneous when the majority of interested players will be running the primals with fellow-experienced players.

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How people choose to go about collecting collectables doesn't change its intention. We're not talking about content like say, the Daidem, where if no one does it then it's a waste. These mounts exist both in part to maintain active queues and serve as bragging rights of sorts. They are vanity and nothing else. Even bad PF groups that break do still net experience because newer players involved got to see the mechanics first hand and may do better with another group later on. JP players don't have these problems even remotely to the extent we do because they're far more patient on either side of the coin (learning the fight and accepting mistakes, respectively). And therein lies the rub. Square has to cater to two markets with vastly different skill levels, preferences and attitudes. Some content will annoy one based on that criteria alone. In this case, you'll probably see more NA players wait while JP players just DF until they get it. A good example of that is how this board blew up in a fury over the Anima weapon grind while the JP board barely even mentioned it outside of just doing it.

In the end, even if only 10% (I wager it's higher; definitely so in Japan) of NA players solo queue for mounts or take newer players in a group. The pigeons have done what they were meant to.

Ok I just wanted to let you know I got my bird only took 215kills:p and also the strangest thing happened we saw 5birds drop in less then 10runs::confused:

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

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You missed my point entirely, if you're getting a group together or going solo, logging hours, killing the boss, over and over and over again, you're putting in work and effort, to get the reward, just like you wake up everyday and go to work to get a paycheck. If you don't get that reward you'll eventually quit the content, just like if your job didn't give you a paycheck you'd quit said job.

I never once stated you should get handed the item on the first drop so I don't know where you get this whole "you're not entitled to win because you pay" thing at. I'm pretty sure I been saying everyone should have the ability to obtain all gear in the game, which is the whole point of playing it the game.

This thing about que times? That has nothing to do with drops, that has to do with what is relevant at the time, as I stated earlier content is going die, less people are using DF to get into Titan verse Bismarck, why? Not because the reward, because Titan is old content that 98% of the community has likely farmed out and cleared and Bismarck isn't. The samething will happen to all 3.0 content when 4.0 drops.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

You missed my point entirely, if you're getting a group together or going solo, logging hours, killing the boss, over and over and over again, you're putting in work and effort, to get the reward, just like you wake up everyday and go to work to get a paycheck. If you don't get that reward you'll eventually quit the content, just like if your job didn't give you a paycheck you'd quit said job.

I never once stated you should get handed the item on the first drop so I don't know where you get this whole "you're not entitled to win because you pay" thing at. I'm pretty sure I been saying everyone should have the ability to obtain all gear in the game, which is the whole point of playing it the game.

This thing about que times? That has nothing to do with drops, that has to do with what is relevant at the time, as I stated earlier content is going die, less people are using DF to get into Titan verse Bismarck, why? Not because the reward, because Titan is old content that 98% of the community has likely farmed out and cleared and Bismarck isn't. The samething will happen to all 3.0 content when 4.0 drops.

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Everyone does have the ability to get everything in the game. That's obvious. What you're arguing is that you deserve this mount, which is a completely optional mount that does nothing to help you in any other aspect of the game, just for doing this many runs.

This is called entitlement. Have you ever heard of the concept of rare items? They're rare. As in, you need to be lucky to get them. You can do a few hundred runs to skew the odds in your favor, but that's really all you can do. You don't need a bird mount to survive. You don't need a bird mount to raid. You're doing this of your own volition purely because you want a mount that you'll probably get tired of in a month.

When ilevels become hyper inflated like they have for pony primals, hey, you may be able to get it in 50 runs. But at no point do you deserve something just because you forced yourself to grind content for hours.

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Originally Posted by Jetstream_Fox

I'm pretty sure I been saying everyone should have the ability to obtain all gear in the game, which is the whole point of playing it.

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99% of the game is just like that though. Anyone can obtain anything.

The other 1% is the Savage raid gear which is too difficult for a lot of people to clear and the low drop mounts from primals. (some other difficult to obtain things like Cloud Card and Fenrir although they are increasingly nerfing both of those recently. I mean I really can't think of too many things that are really difficult to obtain tbh.)

They have to put in some special stuff for people to get if they spend the extra effort/time and fight the RNG because there are certain players who enjoy such things. It's also only rare for a little while since we know now that SE will increase the drop rate later. So it isn't like you cannot ever obtain them you just can't get it right away. The primal ponies drop like hot cakes now if that tells you anything. My boyfriend and I duo'd Garuda, Titan, Ifrit, and Shiva recently and got him all 4 of those ponies within a couple of runs each. He didn't have to roll against anyone but you can get all 8 of a group a pony from one of them in probably an hour or less.

I do agree the 2.0 primal pony drop rate (at the time they first added them) was way too low. It was like 1% so you'd go 100+ runs and not see even one of them drop. So I did advocate that the drop rate was too low for those in the past. Back then we had no idea SE would EVER nerf them and 1% was just pointless due to the fact that you only have a 1% chance to see one compounded on rolling against 7 other people for the win which basically meant you only had a like 0.1% chance to obtain one (or maybe even less too lazy to do the math). No one really farmed the ponies because the rate was too low to bother. If I had known they would nerf the drop rate I wouldn't have cared though since I knew I could just get them later if I didn't want to deal with the RNG.

The new primal birds on the other hand have a significantly higher drop rate (it is somewhere between 5%-10%) than the original drop rate of the primal ponies. So most of the time if you work for it you'll win one eventually because they drop far more frequently. This isn't to say some people don't unfortunately get really unlucky, it happens, but if you want them NOW instead of when they nerf the drop rate then you gotta just keep trying and deal with the RNG.

So it isn't really an argument to say "everyone should be able to obtain everything" because you can....you just wait a few months and everyone can get one because they'll drop all the time and as the game progresses those fights become easier and easier and quicker to beat.

Anyway that is just some stuff to think about. I personally wouldn't care if they added something to avoid RNG issues (I'm too laid back to care either way) but I think they likely won't do that because instead of doing that they just make them super easy to obtain later and leave it rare for the people who wanna fight RNG to get it right away.

If they did what these people really want and add a token system for mounts, which I see the popular number is like 100 tokens, I would think that would do the opposite of what everyone expects. It would kill content faster! Think about it. FFXIV gates gear with the rat race tome farms every week. There's a reason they haven't increased the lore cap above a certain number because that would reduce the amount of time people need minimum in order to obtain gear. If all people needed was 100 tokens to get a lanner, most hardcores would have the content done within a few days tops. Then content would die even faster while we wait in between drought between patches. Even more so if the lanner drops in the instance before the 100 tokens.

If XIV had a different system to keep people logging in more often besides tomes, I'd definitely be open to it. The game really needs to get with it and give us more than two dungeons to occupy our time.

I really wish they'd just increase the drop rate when they release new mounts like this. Not quite to the level of the primal ponies right out of the gate, but something more than the seemingly .000001% chance we have now.

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Originally Posted by Ovenmitts

If they did what these people really want and add a token system for mounts, which I see the popular number is like 100 tokens, I would think that would do the opposite of what everyone expects. It would kill content faster!

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If you add the tokens to the drops? Yes. Because the guy who only had to run it once cannot be statistically compensated by the poor sod that never even saw the thing after 1000 runs (Both being statistical outliers, of course).
If you have the tokens substitute the drop? All that changes is that everyone needs to run it equally often, the average remains the same. Yay same effort for same reward!

And for items like these, you can even go super fancy and hide the tokens, substituting them with a hidden counter in the background that will force drop the item after X amount of runs - but only for you. That way, you even get the satisfaction of getting the item directly, instead of from the vendor.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for an end goal. I've been doing bird farms at least once a week every week since these dropped. I only have 88 totems for bis, and 42 for rav. Why? Because farm parties, even if they are good and you are doing bis in 5 mins, only last max about 10 runs. And sometimes even fewer, especially if were talking rav, where people still don't understand the fight and eventually disband. Not to mention just getting a party together. It's just a little disheartening to actually see a bird drop, lose it, and then not see one again for many runs. I would even vote for 200 totems to exchange if you guys are that worried about the longevity of the content. But at least if I don't get my bird in any of those, I could work towards something. And for those who have been saying once you get it you just stop doing content...not really. My friend got his bis bird luckily in his first few tries farming, and he's been helping us try and get ours ever since. So that logic isn't really there. People will still do it. As someone mentioned earlier, there's still plenty of pony farms out there. I just want a pretty bird, is that so much to ask? T.T

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Originally Posted by Dorander

Yeah, as I linked from my own thread. I had to do bismark EX 331 times to finally win the white lanner mount. I helped quite a few people get their clears and if you do the math on it: 331 runs at 8 minutes a run, thats roughly 44.13333 hours of doing NOTHING but that fight. So yeah, people should definitely be able to turn in those tokens for mounts. Even if it's 99 of them.

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this depresses me.

Appaeantly i'm just a lucky #!÷hole cuz i got my yhordan mount on clear number 9 @_@