LF advice from 3-star Crafters: How to properly commission a set of i220 gear?

Hi everyone. I want to obtain a full set of the i220 WAR gear, but I'm trying not to go bankrupt in the process. I'm hoping I can bring the cost down somewhat from the MB mark-up by having it directly crafted.

But I've never commissioned an item directly before, especially not an expensive item requiring high-level crafting expertise. Until now, I've either lived off dungeon drops, vendor upgrades, crafted everything for myself, or just paid MB prices. So I'm uncertain how to properly place an order with someone else.

I don't want to breach expected etiquette for this sort of craft, or somehow inadvertently waste a crafter's time.

If any experienced high-level crafters can offer advice or instructions, it would be helpful to me. Some of the points I'm most uncertain about are below in a separate post (forum character limit).

• Do I place a direct order for the items and just let the Crafter set a final price, or am I expected to bring raw materials or pre-crafted subcomponents?
• Is it acceptable to just bring all the raw materials needed (like Eikon Hide) and let you assemble everything?
• If so, should I also bring all the Crystals / Clusters required?
• For crafting final products (like High Mythrite Cuirass), what is the expected or appropriate crafting fee? I don't want to inadvertently undervalue your services.
• For crafting subcomponents only (like Camphor for leather), what is the expected or appropriate crafting fee? I'm not having an actual gear piece created in these cases, but I still want to properly value your time and service.
• What quality of materials should I provide? Is NQ okay for the raw mats (like Lumythrite)? Is NQ okay for the subcomponents (like Eikon Iron Ingot)? Or should I bring only HQ items for the entire crafting chain?

I'll give you a quick rundown as I am a gilgamesh crafter, pretty much the short and sweet is just tell them the pieces you need crafted and make sure they can actually make it as a lot of people overlook the specialist lock behind most things, let them know if you're providing the mats or if they are. Don't just bring raw mats though. If you are, make sure they can make them, same rule applies. Most will find it annoying if for example you want a 220 brd chest crafted and you give them ltw mats when they can't do anything with it. Lastly, most people at this point that are 3-star crafting can probably do it with full nq mats, though if they are specifically saying they don't want your mats (I am one of them), then just ask for the straight-up cost, but don't expect an immediate turnaround, give them a bit of time to actually make it. Remember, you wouldn't be asking them to do it if you already had someone that would do this for free or some such.

Lawd Lawd Lawd! Ok here is the thing, you want a full set of gear and that is time consuming. Crafting each component is time consuming. You want to cut corners which is even more time consuming. It isn't going to be about insulting them it will be about if they have the time to do it. For instance, I have crafted many accessory sets from scratch it is at least an hour of crafting. Those from what I understand aren't nearly as involved as the main side pieces. GRIND THAT ESO GRIND IT GUD! I have the person provide all the mats, and crystals, they don't have to be HQ but they want a HQ item I would go for a half and half ratio of HQ components as a guide. Also, HQ food for your crafter depending on their preference and which stats they like to stack. Your issue is going to be getting a leather/wvr/arm combo specialist... a rare beasty indeed but I am on a small server. Set up a PF and see if you get any feedback. We have a crafting ls on my server that watches for such things.

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Originally Posted by panderin

Your issue is going to be getting a leather/wvr/arm combo specialist... a rare beasty indeed but I am on a small server. Set up a PF and see if you get any feedback. We have a crafting ls on my server that watches for such things.

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Note it's not necessary to find a single crafter with all the specialties you need. In fact, it's impossible, if you plan on equipping yourself with both armor and accessories. You'll need leather/wvr/arm for the left-side gear, certainly, but for accessories you will need to find goldsmith and carpenter, as well. Research the recipes for the items you want to have crafted, and provide the ingredients to the crafter you find.

Bear in mind, too, that if you want HQ results, it is difficult, possibly impossible, to guarantee HQ results if you provide the crafter with only NQ ingredients. The more HQ ingredients you supply, the better the odds of success - however, HQ ingredients are expensive, so you'll need to balance the costs.

Another option is to let the crafter do all the work. This will be MUCH more expensive than doing the research and getting the ingredients yourself, but it may still be cheaper than buying the equipment direct from the auction house (and also much less work on your part). It won't be THAT much cheaper, though - after all, if the crafter is doing all the work, why should they sell super cheap to you when they could sell full-price on the Marketboards? The fact that you're a guaranteed buyer, though, may encourage them to chip 10% or so off the price.

I've never commissioned a crafter myself, nor have I commissioned for anyone else (aside from the occasional freebie for my friends), so I don't really know what kind of etiquette is expected. In general, though, crafters who advertise are eager for business, as are the crafters that respond to your own ads. Talk to them, discuss what they feel are fair prices for their work, and if the costs are too steep thank them for their time and let them know you'd prefer to shop around a bit first but will keep them in mind. Keep a price limit in mind, and if NO crafter is willing to work under those limits, it may simply be that this equipment is currently out of your price range.

If that winds up being the case, your best bet is to make friends with a bunch of crafters and hope for freebies. XD

I would follow the other by staying that despite being the customer be Nice and do not hesitate to ask the Crafter if he need something or else
Plus the more you provide the better
The more HQ the better

But if you want to save up some gils
ASK what the Crafter need

Currently i can HQ most 3* without HQ bit i'm more confortable with 1/2 main comp HQ to reach 2000 quality start

Usually the more comp the customer provide the less i charge
The more HQ the less i ask
(Full HQ comp + cluster = free of charge and a kiss)

If you can give food it's better !

...

One time I got someone who ask me to do a craft for half the price in MB using my own comp and complaining that I was slow
(I am WVR, GSM and BSM spec... And the craft needs a leather that I couldn't do...)
And still complaining that ask a little bit more
I recieve no tips and was spit in the face.

Never again!

I usually do crafts for 'free' so long as I am given the materials:
- HQ Eikon ingredients from ESO is usually 'enough' for the ingots. I assume the same for the leather. Then with leather and ingots being HQ, the recipes should be quick and easy to hq.
- NQ Lumythrite Ore is enough to reliably HQ unless I get terrible Hasty procs.
- Not all crafters can make every item. As an example I cannot make the Leather (requires LTW and ALC?)

HQ food is also welcomed. The mats are really really easy to farm if you have gatherers.

Honestly, just ask around to your server's crafters and see what each individual would require to get the craft made. If one of them gives you a reply you're happy with, work with them. There's no one way about it.

Thank you everyone, a lot of helpful advice. Especially reminding me about providing Crafting food, that's a great idea.

I definitely understand how time-consuming Crafting is (and how expensive it is to gear up and meld), that's why I wanted to work with the Crafters as much as possible.

From your advice, it looks like the greatest obstacle is just time. So, I think my plan is shaping up as:

• Treat this like a Relic Quest and all the subcombines as subquests
• Provide as many HQ mats as possible each step of the way (preferably full HQ mats) — even if not absolutely necessary, this saves each crafter a lot of time.
• Get all the subcombines crafted before requesting a final product, unless the subcombines use the same Spec as the product
• Provide all the Crystals/Clusters
• Provide food
• Don't expect everything crafted in one day (which is fine with me)

For now, I'll focus on collecting the materials, then all the subcomponents.

I wish more people were like you! Its a blessing to find people willing to work with crafters and understand the time and effort that goes into such things.

Yeah that's a great way to go about it! Crafters really appreciate someone supplying all the components! Typically when crafting for others the items not given are food and clusters so don't forget that! I have crafted so many items for friends and clients that forgot those so I have to buy clusters from the mb. ;-; I can't check what server you are on my phone, but if you are on Ultros I can help you out. I am CRP/WVR/LTW/ARM/GSM 3* specialists. :)

Look up the mats on xivdb, gather the mats with as much HQ as possible, put up a party finder for a crafter, give mats to crafter, ask them what they charge or give them a tip when they finish, done.

That's...all there is to it.

If anyone has insight to contribute, I think I may need some more ignorance cleared up on my part.

I am providing:

• All Clusters needed
• Full HQ materials (zero NQ items for any stage of the crafts)
• Any HQ Food requested

I thought I would be saving millions of gil this way (which is a lot for me), because even buying full HQ mats and all Clusters it was 50-70% cheaper than MB per item when I ran all the numbers.

However, all the Specialists that respond to my PF listings are charging a crafting fee so high that it makes the total cost (Clusters + HQ Mats + Fee) almost the same — or sometimes more expensive — as buying the item directly off MB.

Because I'm inexperienced with top-end crafting, I assume the problem is on my part (ie, lack of understanding), so I'm trying to learn.

I'm coming from the (perhaps very ignorant) perspective of leveling crafting (my crafters are level 54-55 so far), where recipes are tedious and slow with NQ mats, but full HQ mats makes a recipe fairly quick and efficient.

Is 3-star Crafting, even with full HQ mats, so unpleasant / time-consuming that basically no one will do it without significant compensation?

As others have said, 3 star is very time consuming. Drop a pile of raw mats, I will either reject doing it at all for any price cause of the time waste. The few I have done though, if I do it on my crafting schedule and plan on a weeks time. If you come up to me with mostly ready to go refined HQ mats and need an item, You will have it in 30 minutes or so and about 100k to cover my food and clusters. Full gear sets, I generally ask for a day to do it and around 500k(covers my food, clusters and the very rare nq f'up, cause I don't send out nq gear). I may take a bit more time, though you will 100% get hq gear back. decent tip and hq mats makes me a happy and fast crafter. As for nq mats, if you want to use only refined NQ mats and take a risk, I will do it fast, no promises on that though.

Next I do crafting through mog mail, list the items you want when I agree to craft for you. This gives me a written record of what you want.

As a side note, some crafters like myself have crafting alts to get around specialist, Understand that this was not free or easy to get there with more than one char and we did place a massive amount of time and gil into our chars and their gear. I make gear cause I like to and not for the gil, don't waste my time and your gear set will be far cheap than you will see on the board.

As always, the less I have to do, the faster and cheaper you will see your gear. I do more than crafting and value my time.

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Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

Is 3-star Crafting, even with full HQ mats, so unpleasant / time-consuming that basically no one will do it without significant compensation?

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Yes and no. If you compare 3 star crafting to the rest of crafting, yes it is unplesant and time consuming by comparison. In general, no its not. The thing is its a much higher level of skill then doing something simple. 3 star is like raiding. Savage is fun yes, and its a challange, but that doesnt mean I enjoy going into savage.

Getting to 3 star took a long time, but I also had a bigger head start to assist me. Its easier to stay at end game if youve always been at end game. Myself I try to charge a cheap price, but realistically those high prices you see are deserving. I can do 1 3 star craft every 2 minutes with full concetration, but this is because I know my rotation exactly and I know how to time the button presses when they come off gcd. Not many people that I've seen can craft with the speed and accuracy that I can. With a 30 minute food buff, youre looking at 10 3 star crafts for the average crafter, with a hard limit of about 17 (makers mark rotation). Compare this to essentially a beginner's difficulty of crafting of 60 no-star and below. If its not starred, I can literally craft it with my eyes closed, in probably 30 seconds per craft.

TLDR it's not really "hard", but compared to other recipes, end game crafting is hard.

I craft 3 star stuff for people in bulk unless they give me everything like you are doing and I don't charge. I typically get a tip of 50-100k. I also have pre-crafted all the 3 star mats so it's easy. That way I can make about 12-15 pieces per 30 minutes. :) So I hope you can find a nice crafter on your server. :/

Wow I am sorry you are having such luck with crafters....tbh I don't charge much if at all except for food and some extra mats but I am on a nice server, I hear the more populated the less friendly lol!

Thank you everyone, you're really helping me put what I'm asking of these players into better perspective. I also looked at 3-star crafting videos and guides.

So, what I've learned this time is:

• Items seem cheap when HQ raw materials are purchased because HQ raw materials aren't difficult to acquire.
• Every single subcomponent (Ingots, Leather, Cloth, etc) has the same Difficulty, Quality, and therefore pressure / time / tedium as any actual gear item.
• So hopping up to a Crafter all eager-eyed and going, "Look! HQ materials! And CLUSTERS! And SOUP!" really doesn't change much, because the Crafter still has to spend 30-60 minutes dying of boredom making Ingots or Leather or whatever.
• ie: Contrary to leveling-up crafting (which is my reference frame), the final 3-star armor/accessory crafts are actually (relatively) simple and quick — it's the sub-combines that inflate the time severely.
• And that is why the HQ Subcomponents are mysteriously way more expensive than the HQ raw materials on the MB.

Basically, asking — for example — a 3-star ARM to take 22+33+22 HQ Ores (point A) and turn them into 5 left-side gear pieces (point C) is overlooking the very significant Point B — the 11 High Mythrite Ingots they need to craft.

In Three Star World, 5 gear pieces + 11 Ingots is identical to the timesink / PITA of crafting 16 gear pieces. No one (almost no one?) wants to craft 16 gear pieces, at random, on demand, for a total stranger, without (very) appropriate compensation.

And I think that is why no Specialist so far has been very thrilled or impressed with the "full HQ raw materials! And Clusters! And SOUP!" I was so proud of myself for calculating and collecting.

Yeah that's the plight, but I am sure you will find someone. I have about half a stack of each 3* finished material ready to go for whenever I get a request and I would just toss the mats you give into my retainer for a later date. I know I am not the only one who does this. Using NQ 3* mats and just HQ dissolvents and thread or other material to craft HQ 3* gear.

Raw materials is more work, but as a crafter I do appreciate you bringing hq materials. When you bring hq, we can relax a bit, not having to worry as much about making sure we keep track correctly how many extra tricks of the trade we took. The small gesture makes the difference. It turns from stress plus timesink into just a timesink, which is a lot better.

You just need to find the right crafter if they want to charge too much.

Honestly, it's not THAT difficult; it's mostly a time thing. There's no risky rotation. It's the same rotation we've all been using since we barely got 2 star ready.

You just need to find someone who isn't over-entitled.

I'd make you the full set for 50k or so if you were on my server. People who overcharge for crafting service is a huge pet peeve of mine.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

You just need to find someone who isn't over-entitled.

I'd make you the full set for 50k or so if you were on my server. People who overcharge for crafting service is a huge pet peeve of mine.

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Ask ten different crafters what an appropriate charge is, and you'll get eleven different answers. And they'll all be correct answers.

No one has any right to decide what is a fair price for someone else. Different people consider their time to be worth different amounts. It's all subjective, and no one is right or wrong.

If you think someone is overcharging, and they still get business, then they're not overcharging. The only deciding factor is if the customer says "no", and how eager the crafter was for the customer to say "yes". I'm sure there's plenty of crafters out there who set their prices high because they don't WANT a ton of business, but still have a price at which they're willing to work. By the same token, there are crafters who charge low because crafting for folks is what they love to do.

Well, all the advice here gave me the confidence to keep trying — I think trying to do this entirely on my own, I would have run away, given up, and re-sold all the mats by now.

The diverse opinions in this discussion seem to also be reflected in Eorzea. So far, I've encountered a range of Crafters... several who messaged my PF ad just to tell me my offered tip was pathetic/insulting/etc, some very harshly (I'm sorry, I'm trying!), and also several enthusiastic Crafters who have said anything I offer is fine (or even tried to talk me down on my tip / Food quality). All on the same day. And the same server.

I'm still not done with all the pieces, but I'm making good progress. Without this thread I wouldn't even have known how to properly begin, I would have gotten bullied into enormous fees, I wouldn't have realized proper etiquette (like providing Food)... etc.

So, TY everyone! This has been an adventure and an education.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

Ask ten different crafters what an appropriate charge is, and you'll get eleven different answers. And they'll all be correct answers.

No one has any right to decide what is a fair price for someone else. Different people consider their time to be worth different amounts. It's all subjective, and no one is right or wrong.

If you think someone is overcharging, and they still get business, then they're not overcharging. The only deciding factor is if the customer says "no", and how eager the crafter was for the customer to say "yes". I'm sure there's plenty of crafters out there who set their prices high because they don't WANT a ton of business, but still have a price at which they're willing to work. By the same token, there are crafters who charge low because crafting for folks is what they love to do.

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Yes and that's great and all, you haven't said a single thing I didn't already know.

Doesn't make it any less over-entitled feeling when someone charges you so much that it would have been cheaper to just buy the item you want made when you give them all mats AND food.

That isn't even what upsets me though, I just won't use them. What REALLY upsets me is when someone says they will craft for you, and you go all the way to them and give them all the materials with food and a big tip, and they suddenly stop you and give you all the mats back saying what you gave them was unacceptable and they won't work for you now. What? You didn't tell me there was a charge, I gave you that 50k-100k to be nice. If you're going to charge someone, tell them beforehand you are and how much at least! I'm not a mind reader....

I've blacklisted people over this before because it is ridiculously annoying and rude, and it's happened to me multiple times.

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Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

Well, all the advice here gave me the confidence to keep trying — I think trying to do this entirely on my own, I would have run away, given up, and re-sold all the mats by now.

The diverse opinions in this discussion seem to also be reflected in Eorzea. So far, I've encountered a range of Crafters... several who messaged my PF ad just to tell me my offered tip was pathetic/insulting/etc, some very harshly (I'm sorry, I'm trying!), and also several enthusiastic Crafters who have said anything I offer is fine (or even tried to talk me down on my tip / Food quality). All on the same day. And the same server.

I'm still not done with all the pieces, but I'm making good progress. Without this thread I wouldn't even have known how to properly begin, I would have gotten bullied into enormous fees, I wouldn't have realized proper etiquette (like providing Food)... etc.

So, TY everyone! This has been an adventure and an education.

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Glad to hear it's going well for you. Some people are so rude when Gil is involved (as you can see with my story above), but I'm glad you're finding some nice people on your server.

Maybe don't put the amount you're offering in the party finder, assuming that is what you are doing, just say "Will tip" and ask them if that's enough when they message you? Just a thought. Good luck with the rest.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Glad to hear it's going well for you. Some people are so rude when Gil is involved (as you can see with my story above), but I'm glad you're finding some nice people on your server.

Maybe don't put the amount you're offering in the party finder, assuming that is what you are doing, just say "Will tip" and ask them if that's enough when they message you? Just a thought. Good luck with the rest.

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Honestly it was a little rough at first, without this thread I probably would have just been shellshocked and gave up with the responses I was getting. They ranged from kind-of harsh (like dead silence after my offer) to almost mean (like questioning my IQ).

That was with me offering 100% HQ mats (many pre-refined), all clusters, as much HQ Stew as needed, and making clear it's not a rush order. It was like... 'I thought I was doing this right!'

I started listing the tip as the very first thing in the PF message, figuring that Crafters who wanted more could just stop reading and ignore me after seeing the number. It sort-of worked (everything got much quieter) and sort-of didn't (since now they messaged me to tell me how much my tip sucked).

But then it made my day when I heard the Tell bloop, was expecting another lecture, and instead it was just: "Sure, I can do that for you" ... "Don't stress about counting clusters, if you're missing a few it's nbd" ... "Don't waste money on HQ stew, I can do it with NQ" ... "No, your tip is fine, don't stress about it" ... etc. ^^

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Originally Posted by Eorzean_username

Honestly it was a little rough at first, without this thread I probably would have just been shellshocked and gave up with the responses I was getting. They ranged from kind-of harsh (like dead silence after my offer) to almost mean (like questioning my IQ).

That was with me offering 100% HQ mats (many pre-refined), all clusters, as much HQ Stew as needed, and making clear it's not a rush order. It was like... 'I thought I was doing this right!'

I started listing the tip as the very first thing in the PF message, figuring that Crafters who wanted more could just stop reading and ignore me after seeing the number. It sort-of worked (everything got much quieter) and sort-of didn't (since now they messaged me to tell me how much my tip sucked).

But then it made my day when I heard the Tell bloop, was expecting another lecture, and instead it was just: "Sure, I can do that for you" ... "Don't stress about counting clusters, if you're missing a few it's nbd" ... "Don't waste money on HQ stew, I can do it with NQ" ... "No, your tip is fine, don't stress about it" ... etc. ^^

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It sounds like you'd be a pleasure to work for from my perspective, it's great that a few bad eggs haven't spoiled it for you. :D

Most of the time I tell customer that I don't want food nor cluster
(Except water one)

One time I even cut the price in half if I got water cluster
The person was so happy not to pay gils that he gave me so much cluster that i got twice the price in cluster ._.

And — done! The entire set is complete now.

One last 'Thank you' to everyone who guided me along in this discussion, as well as all the really friendly Crafters I've met on Gilgamesh.

My best advice to anyone else that wants to get high-end items commissioned: Respect the Crafter that's volunteering their time, and the Crafter will be a lot more willing to respect your own desire to have the item. You might not be able to actually craft the 3-Star item yourself, but you should do everything else that you can do — which is actually a lot.

And with any MMO don't let the trolls get you down, they aren't just in Dungeons and Raids there are crafting Trolls to. Super glad you found some good people on your server to help you!