Thoughts on primals 2.0

Well after reading a certain interview of late and at first being annoyed, then curious and finally extremely happy about the concept of the primals in 2.0 and their use it got me thinking of a few things.....

You and your free company have to beat a primal to then use it. Fair enough, but how will using one work? I'm hoping that when called upon there is a cutscene (small) and it then fights alongside you as an npc rather than an "I win button".

Also thought, will it be possible to have primal vs. Primal fights. i.e. Beating ifrit to use against shiva or leviathan against ifrit and so on. Of course I don't want the summon to auto win for you but it would be pretty cool to see primal vs. Primal fights with players as back up (tipping the balance in their acquired primals favour

Also I thought of using more than one primal in a fight..... If say for example you want to fight, I dunno, Odin maybe. He's the big daddy of primals. One tough cookie. There's no way a party could take him down without support. So the free company must seek help and collect all the other (8 maybe?) primals. They then go fight Odin. Each party member the summons the primals to fight alongside them. Either one after the other, 2 at a time or all at once if at all possible. This line of thought brought me to think of the possibilities of some extremely tough bosses ahead.... Pandemonium anyone?

As for the upcoming moogle. What I want to see is him with very few attacks but instead he spawns other moogles and buffs them or debuffs you. Don't pay attention to the trash and you'll get overwhelmed in a comedy manner ofc. It would be a nice change from a normal 1 on 1 tank and spank.
Anyhow, sorry for the grammar etc. Posting from my iPhone!

Godzilla


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from what i understand only 1 free company with be able to have control of a primal at one time. i.e. only one ifrit can be called at a time. not sure how many free companies there will be. but there is a high chance a primal holding free company wouldn't come across another primal holding free company. although the idea is a great one

Well, one primal can be held by one free company, but hopefully there will be several primals around... :3

And from what I understand, free companies are groups of 4 to 8 people, because otherwise it'd be too random to have a LS-wide group and have some douche use a primal once charged on a marmot that was about to kill his level 1 PGL.

Ifrit primal vs Moogle Primal .. GO !!

Who will win I wonder ?

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Originally Posted by RemVye

Godzirra


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Fixed that for ya.

Yeah only one free company can summon a primal at a time. That would not stop other free companies from having the item allowing a summon in their possession. It would be pretty sweetif you're partying out in coertheas and suddenly the sky is in flames, then snow, then downpour of rain, high wind, ground shakes, lighting streaks, flowers start blooming everywhere(moogle). You'd know that instant that a free company was fighting Odin and all the primals were walking the land. Only word I can think of is Epic...

If this idea even nearly crosses yoshi's desk it better have my character sig on the bottom too for all you reps out there :D

Ifrit would win without support from PC's. But fighting ifrit with 20+ mogs alongside you all of you being buffed by big daddy mog on the back row. Now that would be fun.... In fact just seeing ifrit swatting the mogs like flies as they clamber all over them would be a sight to see :)

(iPhone refuse to let me quote)

there are 6 primal total in FFXIV: ifrit, Garuda, Titan, Levithan, Odin, Malevolent Moogle

even if 4 of em will be in-game will be more than enough to wreak havoc in pve/pvp

But i think all 8 will be in-game, just soon or later

*fix FF serie to FFXIV*

*thank for the info* (none FF fan player)

There's alot more than that in the FF series. Those are the ones mentioned so far for XIV.

I remember reading somewhere that you'd only be able to hold a primal for a maximum of two weeks. That might be hearsay, though.

Also, eight primals. One for each element plus light and dark (also might be hearsay).
Ifrit, Titan, Shiva, Leviathan, Garuda, Ramuh (mentioned specifically in one of the JP interviews), Moogle, Odin.

The concept as described by yoshida seems imo Highly broken.

1. There are not enough Primals for everyone.
2. Who gets the right to cast it? (only the leader? Will you get in trouble for using your Companies Summon?)
3. What will prevent 6, or however many primals there are, companies from having a monopoly?

I do not like the Idea of never ever getting the chance to have a summon at my beckon call. Yoshida is CLEARLY not a fan of FF. Summons are not supposed to be gods. They are often misconstrued as god, but they are always in actuality fathomable creature of great power that can be used at the beckon call of one who has gained their submission.

Please someone, resolve these issues logically. I would love to see a system where Summons serve a greater purpose. I just don't want anyone to get left out.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

The concept as described by yoshida seems imo Highly broken.

1. There are not enough Primals for everyone.
2. Who gets the right to cast it? (only the leader? Will you get in trouble for using your Companies Summon?)
3. What will prevent 6, or however many primals there are, companies from having a monopoly?

I do not like the Idea of never ever getting the chance to have a summon at my beckon call. Yoshida is CLEARLY not a fan of FF. Summons are not supposed to be gods. They are often misconstrued as god, but they are always in actuality fathomable creature of great power that can be used at the beckon call of one who has gained their submission.

Please someone, resolve these issues logically. I would love to see a system where Summons serve a greater purpose. I just don't want anyone to get left out.

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Summons are different in all FF games. I don't really remember which one I'm thinking about, but I remember having to charge using a summon before I use it, and it being something ridiculously overpowered and used very sparsely throughout the game.

1- That's why it's awesome. Yoshida said every FC will get a chance at having it.
2- From what I've read, I've convinced myself that FCs will be groups of 4-8 players. So I'd assume that all 8 of them should be in the party together to both "charge" it and use it.
3- Timers.

I wouldn't be surprised if in the end there were at least 12 primals... since there are 12 deities. Maybe 1 will be connected to each? Also it seems like beast tribes in general seem to sort of look to a primal. We don't know who Sylphs and Goblins look to if they do. But I would guess something like Carbuncle for Sylphs...unsure about goblins though.

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Originally Posted by Eldaena

I wouldn't be surprised if in the end there were at least 12 primals... since there are 12 deities. Maybe 1 will be connected to each? Also it seems like beast tribes in general seem to sort of look to a primal. We don't know who Sylphs and Goblins look to if they do. But I would guess something like Carbuncle for Sylphs...unsure about goblins though.

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well in the opening cgi cs there are a lot more then twelve lights that come out of the explosion. Im thinking we there might be a tier system in place quantifying primal power. the big named ones occupying the top company summon class, and then lower teir primals/spirits with less restrictions put in place.

there going to have to do something, other wise the summoner class/job will be insanely impractical for normal play.

I'm not too keen on a system that reserves the complete access to one Primal to exclusively one Free Company. As it allows restrictive play for the 'best' primals to always bein the hands of a 'select few' Free Companies that will just cycle them around.

It removes the sense of access for other shells who might want to rise to the occasion once in a while and have their own primal to summon.

So as a counter-proposal, let me offer what I've dubbed the 'Whisper System'. Here are the rules.

- A free Company defeating a Primal battle gains access to a company key item called "Whisper of [Element]" (Ex, Whisper of Embers, Whisper of Gales.) This items enables you summon the primal.

- Each Company can only hold onto one wisper at a time. However, multiple Companies can hold onto the same element whisper.

- Summoning the Primal to fight in battle with you will cause the whisper to disappear from the Company's access and must be acquired again.

- Only one instance of the Primal can be out in an area at a time. (So if Company A has Ifrit out, Company B cannot summon it.)

- Once the Primal is dismissed, there is a global cool-down in the zone before the same Primal may be summoned again.




The aim is to keep the 'godlike' and unique feel of the Primal without restricting it's use to a 'one group' or 'one zone' at a time. Additionally, the global timer will prevent abuse of multiple Companies simply re-summoning the Primal in PvP or PvE every time it goes down and encourage getting various different whispers if it is intended to use multiple primals on the field.

Primals: GOTTA CATCH 'EM ALL

Since they're still discussing a lot of it I hope they make sure to not make it too restrictive.

Maybe like say any free company can have Ifrit at the same time, but maybe every person only gets to summon it once, until their company gets another win.

I REALLY love the idea of weather change across zones.

i think this system is a terrible idea. for the gamers that dont get to play as often as everyone else and have grown up loving espers, gfs, summons etc., they will never get a chance to summons a primal with this system. There will be established free companies that will just camp and hold primals at all times so no one else can use it. This also kills solo play.

If you want to make a system where htere isnt 8 ifrits in a PT, make it so only 1 of each primal can be summoned in the party at a time, not the whole server. example: a party with 3 summoners can have Garuda, Ifrit, Leviathan summoned at once but not Ifrit, Ifrit, Garuda.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

I'm not too keen on a system that reserves the complete access to one Primal to exclusively one Free Company. As it allows restrictive play for the 'best' primals to always bein the hands of a 'select few' Free Companies that will just cycle them around.

It removes the sense of access for other shells who might want to rise to the occasion once in a while and have their own primal to summon.

So as a counter-proposal, let me offer what I've dubbed the 'Whisper System'. Here are the rules.

- A free Company defeating a Primal battle gains access to a company key item called "Whisper of [Element]" (Ex, Whisper of Embers, Whisper of Gales.) This items enables you summon the primal.

- Each Company can only hold onto one wisper at a time. However, multiple Companies can hold onto the same element whisper.

- Summoning the Primal to fight in battle with you will cause the whisper to disappear from the Company's access and must be acquired again.

- Only one instance of the Primal can be out in an area at a time. (So if Company A has Ifrit out, Company B cannot summon it.)

- Once the Primal is dismissed, there is a global cool-down in the zone before the same Primal may be summoned again.




The aim is to keep the 'godlike' and unique feel of the Primal without restricting it's use to a 'one group' or 'one zone' at a time. Additionally, the global timer will prevent abuse of multiple Companies simply re-summoning the Primal in PvP or PvE every time it goes down and encourage getting various different whispers if it is intended to use multiple primals on the field.

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If Yoshi is really serious about it, then this would be a much better way to go about it. I approve of this idea.

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Originally Posted by Misteyes

I remember reading somewhere that you'd only be able to hold a primal for a maximum of two weeks. That might be hearsay, though.

Also, eight primals. One for each element plus light and dark (also might be hearsay).
Ifrit, Titan, Shiva, Leviathan, Garuda, Ramuh (mentioned specifically in one of the JP interviews), Moogle, Odin.

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i find it hard to believe bahamut would not be making an appearance

I love most of Yoshi P's ideas, but I don't think this is a very good one... I dunno, maybe it just needs to be worked on a bit but I can spot many flaws in its current state. For one this means there will be no Summoner job. Also this will cause major ballance issues. If the Primals are too strong they will be a requirement when harder fights are implemented. If they're too weak then they'll be useless and noone'll want to use them after the first few weeks.

I don't know... it just doesn't seem to fit with either the FF theme or be practical from an MMO standpoint.

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Originally Posted by Syrous

I love most of Yoshi P's ideas, but I don't think this is a very good one... I dunno, maybe it just needs to be worked on a bit but I can spot many flaws in its current state. For one this means there will be no Summoner job. Also this will cause major ballance issues. If the Primals are too strong they will be a requirement when harder fights are implemented. If they're too weak then they'll be useless and noone'll want to use them after the first few weeks.

I don't know... it just doesn't seem to fit with either the FF theme or be practical from an MMO standpoint.

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Wait, what current state? We just read a few tidbits of content under development that will maybe be out in over 1 year. You really think that the dev team don't have your concerns in mind?

How exactly does that kill the summoner job? Way to make assumptions

I considered it is broken game if anyone can summon creatures that considered GOD on this game....oh please ppl, cant you satisfied with SMN??? seeing Ifrit on each battle? I just can only /facepalm

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Originally Posted by northernsky

Wait, what current state? We just read a few tidbits of content under development that will maybe be out in over 1 year. You really think that the dev team don't have your concerns in mind?

How exactly does that kill the summoner job? Way to make assumptions

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First of all, take a deep breath and count to ten, nothing I said warrants you getting your panties in a twist. When I said "in it's current state" I meant this idea, I know full well it's still a long way away from being finalized. Don't need to get all defensive on me.

Secondly, about the killing the summoner job bit, if summons are restricted to groups of people and they can only be called once every time you kill the corresponding Primal, what do summoners do when they can't summon? Also, that creates a few more problems, either you would absolutely need a summoner in the free company to summon a Primal, or anyone could do it no matter what job. Either one doesn't seem right to me. They would need to be able to summon something other than primals, like elementals in FFXI, or give them another role to play. Was I clear enough this time?

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Originally Posted by Syrous

First of all, take a deep breath and count to ten, nothing I said warrants you getting your panties in a twist. When I said "in it's current state" I meant this idea, I know full well it's still a long way away from being finalized. Don't need to get all defensive on me.

Secondly, about the killing the summoner job bit, if summons are restricted to groups of people and they can only be called once every time you kill the corresponding Primal, what do summoners do when they can't summon? Also, that creates a few more problems, either you would absolutely need a summoner in the free company to summon a Primal, or anyone could do it no matter what job. Either one doesn't seem right to me. They would need to be able to summon something other than primals, like elementals in FFXI, or give them another role to play. Was I clear enough this time?

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They can also introduce lesser spirits that serve the primals, expanding the list of summons introduced(ex: if ifrit is the primal, spirits can be Salamando, Phoenix, Belias, Bomb)each with situational strentghs/weaknesses. That wouldn't kill the summoner class at all.

Also, if the storyline is to be believed, you will need summoner"s" not just one. You are speedialing a god, you know.

I think Primal Summoning is going to mainly be focused on large scale PVP unless summoner job, but that's just my opinion, as far as primal fights themselves, I really really want a Garuda Staff for my Conjurer (or Black Mage at that point, i guess) I really want that Ifrit staff too but r43 and not enough friends to tackle Ifrit with (not to mention I'm more of a casual player so I wouldn't be super useful as the only healer) my chance at those weapons will probably come after raised cap when i can cheeze it with a random group of peeps.

While I do like Hyrist's version better, I still don't understand the point of having this ability at all.
Could someone explain to me why we would be given such an overpowered ability, regardless of having to recollect or cool-down, in an MMO setting? /confused

Oh, and I'm not saying this because I love the summoner class and > all, would be the same response if we could pull out an aether bazooka or some craziness.

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Originally Posted by Syrous

Secondly, about the killing the summoner job bit, if summons are restricted to groups of people and they can only be called once every time you kill the corresponding Primal, what do summoners do when they can't summon? Also, that creates a few more problems, either you would absolutely need a summoner in the free company to summon a Primal, or anyone could do it no matter what job. Either one doesn't seem right to me. They would need to be able to summon something other than primals, like elementals in FFXI, or give them another role to play. Was I clear enough this time?

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Primals are not for Summoner. They are for free companies. Summoner would get their own spirits to summon, like Carbuncle.

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GameWatch - Job Summoner where you can summon spirits will also be implemented?
YoshiP - We will eventually implement. Pet users are star in MMORPG class. For example carbuncle is a summon a summoner can call however “Ifrit” or “Garuda” or “Leviathan” or “Odin” are gods.

GameWatch - At what point is there a line to decide which is which?
YoshiP - That’s hard questions since it depends on feeling (laugh) generally something you can call yourself is summon, and those which you can’t call on own are gods.

GameWatch - How about Shiva or Ramu?
YoshiP - Those two are also planned as gods. Mainly 4 elements and Light/Dark are confirmed gods.

GameWatch - You said calling a monster but can you not taim a monster?
YoshiP - Having pets you can call using MP an those monsters in the area which you can taim; we are preparing both. The design is there so now it’s to work on them, but before that there isn’t much spell users and there isn’t enough cloud control spell so first release jobs then will follow up afterwards.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post402103