Why is Ninja the only melee that doesn't have a gap closer skill?

Like Monk's Shoulder Tackle and Dragoon's Spineshatter Dive. Even Dark Knight has one.

Ninja supposed to be the fastest and most agile job in the field but it lacks tool to move around beside Shukuchi. Shukuchi isn't that great either. It has delay time that prevent Ninja to attack immediately after using it.

Ninja also lack a back flip ability like Bard and Dragoon can jump away in a second. Shukuchi requires 2-3 second to click on the ground. And it's Bard, not even a Hunter or a Ranger. Why is a musician can be more agile than ninjas?

We have Overwhelm in PvP but that skill should be our basic skill in PvE mode. And also need an insta-back flip ability.

You kinda answered your own question even though you don't like its execution.

The best thing I ever did on ninja was make a shukuchi target macro. It's still not great but it has the benefit of being useable on allies and enemies

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Originally Posted by Jamillion

The best thing I ever did on ninja was make a shukuchi target macro. It's still not great but it has the benefit of being useable on allies and enemies

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can you share those macros?

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Originally Posted by Evangela

can you share those macros?

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Sure, it's possible as of 3.2 iirc to use <t> on ground target abilities, so it works on flaming arrow, salted earth, etc.

This is from memory so be sure to double check it. The desired effect is to shukuchi to your target if it's in range and use a normal shukuchi if nothing is targeted. It shouldn't throw those annoying errors if you are out of range so if it doesn't take you to your target and doesn't give you a ground marker you need to get closer.

/micon Shukuchi
/merror off
/ac shukuchi <t>
/ac shukuchi

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Originally Posted by Jamillion

Sure, it's possible as of 3.2 iirc to use <t> on ground target abilities, so it works on flaming arrow, salted earth, etc.

This is from memory so be sure to double check it. The desired effect is to shukuchi to your target if it's in range and use a normal shukuchi if nothing is targeted. It shouldn't throw those annoying errors if you are out of range so if it doesn't take you to your target and doesn't give you a ground marker you need to get closer.

/micon Shukuchi
/merror off
/ac shukuchi <t>
/ac shukuchi

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Thanks. I didn't know that they made it possible to macro ground target skills.

Still hope that they remove the delay after Shukuchi though.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Thanks. I didn't know that they made it possible to macro ground target skills.

Still hope that they remove the delay after Shukuchi though.

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Don't mention it! And yeah, that delay is killer x_x

Shukuchi is amazing though. Especially with ground target macro. That 60 second cooldown though.

Actually (since you mentioned bard) as a mch we are the only physical dps to not have a gap closers or jump back. Shukuchi may not be as effective as the others but at least you have it -_- now that I think about it mch and smn are the only dps without gap closers or jumpbacks

Machinist has the most freedom of movement out of all the classes because they largely don't auto attack and can literally just walk away facing away from the boss and summoner can sprint. The only ones without real movement capabilities are pali and war.

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Originally Posted by LucentLagombi

Machinist has the most freedom of movement out of all the classes because they largely don't auto attack and can literally just walk away facing away from the boss and summoner can sprint. The only ones without real movement capabilities are pali and war.

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yea and have a dps loss because ur not attacking? can say that about every class..just run away!!

Y'know, with the amount people talk about *buzzword* homogenization, people seem to like melting all the classes together. It's okay that Ninjas don't have a gap closer. You guys are still loved.

You're more about stealth. It makes sense that your current "gap-closer-skill" doesn't target like ours does, so you can use it silently.

Though honestly I'd prefer shoulder tackle over either of the DRG of NIN's abilities.

Why doesn't MNK have a ranged attack to pull mobs to them instead of being forced to run into the swarm?

Why doesn't WAR have a shield so they can block as well as parry attacks like PLD?

Why doesn't WHM have any party utility like SCH and AST?

Because jobs have this novel thing called "differences."

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Originally Posted by Velox

Why doesn't MNK have a ranged attack to pull mobs to them instead of being forced to run into the swarm?

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We do if you count Howling Fist. what is it, like 7 yalms? <_< I use it SOMETIMES to attack from a slight range, so I can do SOMETHING while walking to the target.

/ac shukuchi <t>
/ac shukuchi <t>
/ac shukuchi <t>
/ac shukuchi <t>
/ac shukuchi <t>
/ac shukuchi <t>
/ac shukuchi <t>
/ac shukuchi <t>
/ac shukuchi <t>
/ac shukuchi <t>
/ac shukuchi <t>
/ac shukuchi <t>
/macroicon Shukuchi
/ac shukuchi

Warps you to target in a very close to ability queue amount of time. If no target it gives you the place option.

:D

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Originally Posted by Velox

Why doesn't MNK have a ranged attack to pull mobs to them instead of being forced to run into the swarm?

Why doesn't WAR have a shield so they can block as well as parry attacks like PLD?

Why doesn't WHM have any party utility like SCH and AST?

Because jobs have this novel thing called "differences."

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Because an assassin supposed to have an ability to rush to the target and attack?

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Because an assassin supposed to have an ability to rush to the target and attack?

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I'd argue an assassin is supposed to have an ability to sneak to the target and attack.

It's a shame that "Hide" is such a missed opportunity. Or even bonus damage from an attack during Hide.

Having the gap closer has a stealth ability with SA, TA and give the flavor of an ambush where you just jumb to your unaware target to get the first strike could be ok. now just need to tweak the range to be a bit greater than bosses true sigh range otherwise it's useless (maybe have to reduce the range in pvp)

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Originally Posted by LeeraSorlan

yea and have a dps loss because ur not attacking? can say that about every class..just run away!!

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Procs can be used while moving without losing dps.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

I'd argue an assassin is supposed to have an ability to sneak to the target and attack.

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Stealth killing is not the only way to assassinate people. Ezio can do stealth kill and also can suddenly jump on people and stab their throat.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Stealth killing is not the only way to assassinate people. Ezio can do stealth kill and also can suddenly jump on people and stab their throat.

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So you're saying there is multiple ways to go about it? Therefore warranting the capacity for there to be differences within the classes besides just making everyone the same for ease of balance.

So I don't really know what you're getting at. My point still stands that Ninja aren't owed a gap closer, even in the shallowest realm that is "lore" based balance.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Because an assassin supposed to have an ability to rush to the target and attack?

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One could also argue that ninjas are spies and not assassins.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

One could also argue that ninjas are spies and not assassins.

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They're spies, samurais, and assassins.

You could say that ninja have the very best gap closer/escape because of how versatile it is, being able to decide distance and direction yourself. It would be nice if it didn't have that delay though. That may be the offset to its versatility.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Because an assassin supposed to have an ability to rush to the target and attack?

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Also, DRG shouldn't have any fall damage, because jumping is integral to their skillset.
PLD should do more damage, they're supposed to be strong men.
WHM shouldn't DPS, only heal.
BLM should use all elements, not only two.
DRK should trade HP for attacks, not MP.

See, I could change how the whole game works based on lore, and it would be the worst idea ever.

One thing I like about ninjas teleport is that it lets me close a gap without adding to an enemies stun resistance.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

They're spies, samurais, and assassins.

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I was talking about how historical ninjas were mainly spies, but I guess I failed to mention that. And the samurai part doesn't even make any sense.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

I was talking about how historical ninjas were mainly spies, but I guess I failed to mention that. And the samurai part doesn't even make any sense.

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Some Ninja's were simply assassin versions of Samurai if they still served a Lord or Vassal.

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Originally Posted by Skorp_X

Also, DRG shouldn't have any fall damage, because jumping is integral to their skillset.
PLD should do more damage, they're supposed to be strong men.
WHM shouldn't DPS, only heal.
BLM should use all elements, not only two.
DRK should trade HP for attacks, not MP.

See, I could change how the whole game works based on lore, and it would be the worst idea ever.

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Well, WHM has always had some source of damage (usually in the form of light elemental spells), and BLM uses 3 elements on FFXIV, but I see where you're coming from so I agree with you.

I'm not a ninja, but my friend uses a mouse-over targeting macro for her shukuchi, that way she can just swipe her mouse over someone who's a safe distance away's name in the party list and hit whatever button she has it bound to

Ninja has plenty of utility for gap closing situations.It has much faster base movement speed than any other class thanks to the fleet of foot trait.
We can also freely spam throwing dagger when running back towards enemies or if it's on cooldown cast one of our many ranged ninjitsu skills while running towards the enemy.
These advantages along with shukuchi make Ninjas quite effective in sustaining dps when there is a gap.

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Originally Posted by Metalwrath

Ninja has plenty of utility for gap closing situations.It has much faster base movement speed than any other class thanks to the fleet of foot trait.

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Phew, I thought no one is going to point this out! Ninja moves faster than everyone else at ALL TIMES. And we have a gap closer on 60 sec cool down on top of that. Which simply means that if Ninja, Monk and DRG used their gap closers, Ninja is still better because of the passive movement speed increase (unless MNK switches stances while running). Not to mention that in certain fights, MNK and DRG will not be able to use their gap closers because stunning the target is important and they cannot add to the diminishing returns.

As I main NIN, would I like to have my version of Shoulder Tackle or Spine Jump? Of course! Do I really need it at the moment? Not really.

You only see shukuchi as a gap closer while it's a movement ability. You can use it to dodge AoEs so you can sneak in more dps.

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Originally Posted by Jamillion

Sure, it's possible as of 3.2 iirc to use <t> on ground target abilities, so it works on flaming arrow, salted earth, etc.

This is from memory so be sure to double check it. The desired effect is to shukuchi to your target if it's in range and use a normal shukuchi if nothing is targeted. It shouldn't throw those annoying errors if you are out of range so if it doesn't take you to your target and doesn't give you a ground marker you need to get closer.

/micon Shukuchi
/merror off
/ac shukuchi <t>
/ac shukuchi

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Wanna point out that you don't need that error off or that second /ac.

It's literally just /micon "Shukuchi" then /ac "Shukuchi" <t>

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Originally Posted by Skorp_X

BLM should use all elements, not only two.

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they use 3 out of 6. Fire ice lightning whm uses the other three. Earth water wind -chuckle-

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Originally Posted by Melch

You only see shukuchi as a gap closer while it's a movement ability. You can use it to dodge AoEs so you can sneak in more dps.

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I wish this were true, but after trying it, I discovered it doesn't behave like a real teleport like Shoulder Tackle. If there's an damage patch in the area that Shukuchi passes through, you will suffer whatever effects that AoE inflicts. Unlike Shoulder Tackle, which you can use to bypass AoEs entirely.

I was really dismayed by Shukuchi- the delay was killer and the fact that I can't even circumvent AoEs like I can with ST meant I dropped it from my hotbar entirely very quickly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jamillion

Sure, it's possible as of 3.2 iirc to use <t> on ground target abilities, so it works on flaming arrow, salted earth, etc.

This is from memory so be sure to double check it. The desired effect is to shukuchi to your target if it's in range and use a normal shukuchi if nothing is targeted. It shouldn't throw those annoying errors if you are out of range so if it doesn't take you to your target and doesn't give you a ground marker you need to get closer.

/micon Shukuchi
/merror off
/ac shukuchi <t>
/ac shukuchi

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to expand on this you can use triggers other than <t> you can use <f> numbers <2> <3> <8> to jump to wherever party members are. or you can use <mo> and it'll jump straight to wherever your mouse pointer is.

have mine macrod to the healer generally as they're usually stood well away from the stuff I want to get out of and in a relatively safe place. makes it a lot quicker.
it's not perfect though there are times where you really don't want to be jumping to the healers position. but on the whole I've found it to be the most usefull way to use it.

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Originally Posted by Mewnie

I wish this were true, but after trying it, I discovered it doesn't behave like a real teleport like Shoulder Tackle. If there's an damage patch in the area that Shukuchi passes through, you will suffer whatever effects that AoE inflicts. Unlike Shoulder Tackle, which you can use to bypass AoEs entirely..

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this is also true but does have a few exceptions. you can pass through "heavy" at speed. it's quite usefull in quarn hard for getting out of the whiling sands thing quick

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Originally Posted by Waliel

I was talking about how historical ninjas were mainly spies, but I guess I failed to mention that. And the samurai part doesn't even make any sense.

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But historical ninjas were spies, samurais, and assassins.