Reward already received

Reward already received = you are wasting your time.

It would be nice if there actually still was some kind of bonus for doing content you no longer need. It can feel highly unrewarding when you are just helping someone else to do content you shouldn't be doing for the next 24/7 days till reset, as it is no longer effective.

Like doing roulettes etc. When you already have it, there is no difference between picking a good dungeon and using it while risking a bad dungeon. The reward is the same.

Alexander raids are even worse. Farming your loot is hard enough with this loot system, but it gets even worse when you have to farm it even more to help your friends to loot. It can feel really annoying at times seeing them loosing rolls again and again, while you are there just to help them. To be honest, I would even like the option to pass all the loot and give a little roll bonus to one of the other players.


So it would be really nice if the game still rewarded something for doing content where you can't be rewarded anymore at this moment.

"It would be nice if there actually still was some kind of bonus for doing content you no longer need."

Uhh.... tomesstones.

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Originally Posted by Alexftw

"It would be nice if there actually still was some kind of bonus for doing content you no longer need."

Uhh.... tomesstones.

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Tomestones are always there. These are the basic reward for doing the content. They are not reward for doing content where you already received the real reward.

My best friend IRL sucks at playing this game. So bad. Like, he'd fail an untimed L1 training dummy in S3.

I help him with content I've done 1000000 times. You know my reward? I get to play with my friend, and we have a hoot. If you're having trouble finding reward, or fun in playing with your friends or helping others than...just stop?

I think a better system than rewarding extra tomes would be a commendation type system. Receive 1 'new commendation type' for every dungeon you run with a new player. Add 100, 300, 500, 1000, 1500, 3000 rewards.

I feel it'd be more enticing to a lot of players in the long run - adding extra poetics or eso onto a run? Au Revoir, Les Felicias.

I think the system is fine as it is in my opinion.

Your reward is playing with your friend and spending time with with and having fun, if you need more reward then that then just stop playing. I do things I no longer need helping friends all the time, my reward is spending time with them and having fun playing with someone.

@Pence

You are pan full of awesome! I was going to mention something similar because I'm still a new player, and always feel like I suck at this game. A RL mate of mine who is also in my FC does all the instances with me my first time even though he's been through it countless times. I asked him if he got any reward or bonus for repeating dungeons and NM primals, and all he told me is how fun it is to group with me, and it's all about that. Then jokingly told me he wouldn't miss my newbie days for the world, lol. Plus, we always find our ways into really fun parties. The kind where you laugh off derps, KO's, and just have fun. It helps remind me I'm not playing with robots, and helps keep him refreshed for his grinds.

It's players like that who make the best mentors. All they want is to help newer players, and that is rewarding within itself for them

I'm actually disappointed when I get all my loot from Alex and complete my void ark run, wish there were more weeklys to do.

I don't plan on doing relic as the 2 jobs that I play have awful ones, in terms of glamour original relics are better.

I don't bother with daily things since all it gets tomes, every job 60 minus bard (can't stand it) every job i210+

All I'm really left with is bird farms, crafting and raiding.

I have just switched to female lala, working on glamour sets to occupy my free time.

This is coming from someone with a full time job, young child to take care of aswell, God knows what I would do if I had more free time XD

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Originally Posted by Archaell

Like doing roulettes etc. When you already have it, there is no difference between picking a good dungeon and using it while risking a bad dungeon. The reward is the same.

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Queue it as a "role in need" to get extra gil everytime you do it

The thing is you could be doing something actually fun with your friend - like roleplaying etc. But the game forces you to get your weekly reward (or your friend's reward) this week and so you have to do it this week. If you don't do it, you have no chance to get it later on. So you are just stuck in A7 getting annoyed by that stupid cat and pug groups, while your friend is getting frustrated that you are wasting your time and telling you to stop. Of course you can't do that, so you are stuck there wasting your time in a slowly expanding clouds of frustration with every single lost roll...

It slightly makes the game less enjoyable, not enough to stop, but slightly less fun - and that is why I said it feels unrewarding.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Queue it as a "role in need" to get extra gil everytime you do it

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I always get the tank bonus. But only one person can get that and again it is always there.

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Originally Posted by whythehate

I'm actually disappointed when I get all my loot from Alex and complete my void ark run, wish there were more weeklys to do.

I don't plan on doing relic as the 2 jobs that I play have awful ones, in terms of glamour original relics are better.

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What sort of weeklies would you like to see? (XIV probably has more than any other game I can think of)

[QUOTE=Archaell;3664833]The thing is you could be doing something actually fun with your friend - like roleplaying etc. But the game forces you to get your weekly reward (or your friend's reward) this week and so you have to do it this week. If you don't do it, you have no chance to get it later on. So you are just stuck in A7 getting annoyed by that stupid cat and pug groups, while your friend is getting frustrated that you are wasting your time and telling you to stop. Of course you can't do that, so you are stuck there wasting your time in a slowly expanding clouds of frustration with every single lost roll...
QUOTE]

Instead of altering the game, have you tried altering how you play it?

Wait until your friend is on before you do your M1-4 and than make a PF group together. 'Running M1 until everyone has their drop'. It's 2-8 runs max. (Yeah yeah, people get their own and drop. It happens. But in my experience people tend to stay)

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Instead of altering the game, have you tried altering how you play it?

Wait until your friend is on before you do your M1-4 and than make a PF group together. 'Running M1 until everyone has their drop'. It's 2-8 runs max. (Yeah yeah, people get their own and drop. It happens. But in my experience people tend to stay)

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Yeah, that is exactly what I am considering. I have been feeling lately that maybe I should stop using the duty fidner all together. That could make things better.

I always wait for the friends, unfortunately not all are on at the same time, so you can't really do it all together. Real life schedules and stuff...

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Originally Posted by Archaell

I always wait for the friends, unfortunately not all are on at the same time, so you can't really do it all together. Real life schedules and stuff...

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Not much a problem for me. 1 friend and all (that I'd wait for / repeat content endlessly for). It's probably always been the best option though, even if you make a PF yourself. A lot of people feel the same, and you guys may even make a few new friends that would be willing to static a weekly M1-4 quick clear group. Another benefit: You don't need to 2/4/2 it. You can 1/6/1, 2/5/1, or 1/5/2.

Another option: Each get your daily Dragonskin maps, then run them in duo/groups. You'd probably get 2++ 220 a week from the gil you earn. (Many can be better, also. And I think some can be on par with i230 gears)

This tier is a lot more broad and less strict than the previous, SE may be learning something about gear progression and stats.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

Tomestones are always there. These are the basic reward for doing the content. They are not reward for doing content where you already received the real reward.

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Speak for yourself. I'm at 3/5 aether oils for my third relic and have more to do after that so I'll take every tomestone I can get my grubby hands on and I'll like every last one of them. There's always the reward of doing fun stuff with your friends! We typically wait in my FC until we have a full premade then we go steamroll the crap out of Midas Normal and Void Ark. Roulettes we do whenever.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Speak for yourself. I'm at 3/5 aether oils for my third relic and have more to do after that so I'll take every tomestone I can get my grubby hands on and I'll like every last one of them.

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It is more about the rate at which you get the tomestones. You need a lot - yes, yet random DF groups are not the place to get good tomes per hour ration... which might be part of the issue. The chores have to be done first, before we can do grinding lol. It is a little bit amusing, but after having bad luck with rng I would have rather been farming Antitower for the tomes again and again.

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Originally Posted by Pence

What sort of weeklies would you like to see? (XIV probably has more than any other game I can think of)

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It might just actually be the lack of challenging content, seph didn't take long to have on farm. I now run that on my alt job for birdie farms still no luck, raids are restricted to when statics are available. So your just left with lackluster rewards that force you into face roll content.

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Originally Posted by whythehate

It might just actually be the lack of challenging content, seph didn't take long to have on farm. I now run that on my alt job for birdie farms still no luck, raids are restricted to when statics are available. So your just left with lackluster rewards that force you into face roll content.

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I understand. I think the Garuda/Titan/Ifrit was the best weekly this game has ever produced. They were not face-roll at the time, and most importantly? Fun AND rewarding. The game is even too predictable and easy for my casual friends...I think a lot of players are itching for a mix up in 4.0.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

It is more about the rate at which you get the tomestones. You need a lot - yes, yet random DF groups are not the place to get good tomes per hour ration... which might be part of the issue. The chores have to be done first, before we can do grinding lol. It is a little bit amusing, but after having bad luck with rng I would have rather been farming Antitower for the tomes again and again.

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Repeating the same dungeon over and over is terribly boring, though. Variety is good.

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Originally Posted by Pence

I understand. I think the Garuda/Titan/Ifrit was the best weekly this game has ever produced. They were not face-roll at the time, and most importantly? Fun AND rewarding. The game is even too predictable and easy for my casual friends...I think a lot of players are itching for a mix up in 4.0.

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Primal Focus was definitely one of my favorite weeklies back in the day. I'd like to see something like that again.

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Originally Posted by Pence

I understand. I think the Garuda/Titan/Ifrit was the best weekly this game has ever produced. They were not face-roll at the time, and most importantly? Fun AND rewarding. The game is even too predictable and easy for my casual friends...I think a lot of players are itching for a mix up in 4.0.

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I think what would be really nice is a weekly which builds towards a fully customisable armour set, a long grind for armour that has 0 stat value. unique head, body, leg, hand and feet. Each piece would require a drop (100%) from certain content, you could choose perhaps on chest piece glow colour (colours could be obtained via primal but limited to 1 drop across all primals per week)

The type of material used, it's length, it's design pattern etc etc every option could be attached to doing 1 of the vast majority of pre existing content available and it's up to you how much you really want to do in one week.

Whether this is even possible is a different matter, but this would allow people to have that truly special snowflake gear.

WOW... I can't even find anything to say about this!

No, but seriously, I go for the Tomes, if anything. I am working on too many weapons and gear to NOT need the Tomes. Kinda crazy to enter content JUST for the weekly, then not go in again. What if you did EVERYTHING at reset? What are you doing for the rest of the day/week?

This is what the tomestones are intended to be.

I know you said you already felt they were insufficient, but that's the way it is.

This game has always had daily/weekly loot limits of some kind and they aren't about to go anywhere.

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I understand. I think the Garuda/Titan/Ifrit was the best weekly this game has ever produced.

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I think it was one of the most terrible. i90 weapons had alternative, much easier methods of acquisition in the form of relics.

Titan EX in particular didn't feel much like a weekly when it took me months just to get my first clear on it. By the time the playerbase was capable of actually getting a win rate on Titan EX that averaged out higher than "once a week", the i90 rewards were useless.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

This is what the tomestones are intended to be.

I know you said you already felt they were insufficient, but that's the way it is.

This game has always had daily/weekly loot limits of some kind and they aren't about to go anywhere.



I think it was one of the most terrible. i90 weapons had alternative, much easier methods of acquisition in the form of relics.

Titan EX in particular didn't feel much like a weekly when it took me months just to get my first clear on it. By the time the playerbase was capable of actually getting a win rate on Titan EX that averaged out higher than "once a week", the i90 rewards were useless.

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Maybe you were just bad.

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Originally Posted by Pence

Maybe you were just bad.

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Cmon now. It doesn't make him bad for him to say that Titan EX was a hard trial. Back in the day it was hard. It actually took me awhile to clear too and even once we had it on farm, Titan EX was always the one where we had to kick and replace people the most frequently whether it was due to bad ping or them just failing at mechanics. In any case, there's plenty of room for differing opinions; I don't see why you'd suddenly turn and attack this guy simply because he said he didn't enjoy Primal Focus.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

Tomestones are always there. These are the basic reward for doing the content. They are not reward for doing content where you already received the real reward.

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You're describing what you attempt to dismiss.
Tomestones are there for you, even if you already have the daily/weekly reward.

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Originally Posted by Archaell

Reward already received = you are wasting your time.

It would be nice if there actually still was some kind of bonus for doing content you no longer need. It can feel highly unrewarding when you are just helping someone else to do content you shouldn't be doing for the next 24/7 days till reset, as it is no longer effective.

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Do people need a cookie for everything they do?

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Originally Posted by Lexia

Do people need a cookie for everything they do?

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Can people resist sharing their opinions on these forums?

My opinion is that roulettes should always be more rewarding than a handpicked dungeons even after the daily bonus. It is like gambling - you can take the reward right away or gamble for the same or lesser rewards. It is not just about the tomes, but also about time and your preference. Everybody has some dungeons they like less and which are in the roulettes.

For the Midas loot system. Why are there no tokens etc? A little thing like barding, mount or glamour would make the whole thing seem less tedious when RNG hates you.

Of course you can think that the current state of things is perfect. It is enitrely fine to have own opinions.

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Originally Posted by Pence

My best friend IRL sucks at playing this game. So bad. Like, he'd fail an untimed L1 training dummy in S3.

I help him with content I've done 1000000 times. You know my reward? I get to play with my friend, and we have a hoot. If you're having trouble finding reward, or fun in playing with your friends or helping others than...just stop?

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Just about anything is better with friends dude. I think it would be a neat idea if party members would allow loot sharing if they entered the dungeons or trials together so they'd have a better chance of getting their loot. It'd be nice for the both of us and we won't have to run something 58 times for a cosmetic or weekly loot drop. Yeah we don't have to do these things, duh, but if this is the route the game takes for everything there's not much we can do in our subscription based game other than bash our heads against some boss till it spits out what we want.

The current loot system is unfair but its been like this forever now, doesn't make it anymore right to have it this way. Games like Phantasy Star Online 2 doesn't do this and its way more rewarding with friends, and yes I'm playing that game too along with 14 as well as Wakfu which also has a more fair and reasonable loot system.

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Originally Posted by Alexftw

"It would be nice if there actually still was some kind of bonus for doing content you no longer need."

Uhh.... tomesstones.

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Tomestones aren't much of a motivator. We only have one type that anyone really cares about, and that's Lore which has a cap of 450 per week. I don't know anyone who hasn't already either capped poetics or ran out of reasons to do so. That's literally every level 50 roulette right there (most of them). Esoterics are only useful if you're levelling a new class and want some quick gear, but you'll get tons of those just doing runs for Lore tomes anyway.

So yeah, we need a reason to want to run this stuff or it's going to die out fast.

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Maybe you were just bad.

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Dohohohoh, aren't you cool, internet tough guy?

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So yeah, we need a reason to want to run this stuff or it's going to die out fast.

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So far I don't see any real shortage of people running the current weeklies (VA, Midas)

The crystal tower weeklies, they're still hard to get queues for, sure... but you have to admit that prior to this recent anima update, it was even worse.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Tomestones aren't much of a motivator. We only have one type that anyone really cares about, and that's Lore which has a cap of 450 per week. I don't know anyone who hasn't already either capped poetics or ran out of reasons to do so. That's literally every level 50 roulette right there (most of them). Esoterics are only useful if you're levelling a new class and want some quick gear, but you'll get tons of those just doing runs for Lore tomes anyway.

So yeah, we need a reason to want to run this stuff or it's going to die out fast.

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Do Anima questline, and even poetics will be a rare tome for you that you can't have enough and eso will be still in need.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

We only have one type that anyone really cares about, and that's Lore which has a cap of 450 per week.

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This pretty much.

I can easily deck out all my alt classes in eso stuff - but any further progression is pretty much weekly capped. So once I did my Midas/Capped lore, only reason to run content is for glamour or to help mates. And too many people don't ask if anyone wants to come along :<

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Tomestones aren't much of a motivator. We only have one type that anyone really cares about, and that's Lore which has a cap of 450 per week. I don't know anyone who hasn't already either capped poetics or ran out of reasons to do so. That's literally every level 50 roulette right there (most of them). Esoterics are only useful if you're levelling a new class and want some quick gear, but you'll get tons of those just doing runs for Lore tomes anyway.

So yeah, we need a reason to want to run this stuff or it's going to die out fast.

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That is also a good point. Once you cap lore the content suddenly rewards even less for doing it. The esoterics are still needed tho, so why couldn't we have a system that once you are capped, you get eso instead of the lore?

In Wildstar there was something similar. Once you capped you were getting money instead and money allowed you to buy gametime so it was quite nice.

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Originally Posted by Lemuria

Tomestones aren't much of a motivator. We only have one type that anyone really cares about, and that's Lore which has a cap of 450 per week. I don't know anyone who hasn't already either capped poetics or ran out of reasons to do so. That's literally every level 50 roulette right there (most of them). Esoterics are only useful if you're levelling a new class and want some quick gear, but you'll get tons of those just doing runs for Lore tomes anyway.

So yeah, we need a reason to want to run this stuff or it's going to die out fast.

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For me it's the other way around. I go out to farm Eso and happen to get Lore while I'm doing it.

Working on multiple relics = tons of Esoterics and let's face it 450/week is a joke to get. xD