Tanks Running Up and Down Feast Spawns w/ Medals

I'm making this just to see the opinion of others to if this should be considered an actual tactic or abusing the medal system (I'm writing from the POV of 4v4 solo ranked). It has become more prevalent since the change to TP and tanks being scared of taking damage with 8+ medals to where we have to play ring-around the-rosy with tanks as the healer is just focusing on them/burning their cds and dps wailing on team, or just slaughter his/her weaker teammates for less and less medals.

I specifically write this in terms of solo ranked where team communication/coordination is the weakest and frankly its getting less fun knowing people are just going to grab medals and run in circles for an easy win.

and before anyone puts it up, I'd rather not have Stun+LB the tank be the only answer to a counter win, I'd just like elevation and forced LoS breaking to not determine a win.

I encountered this earlier and (narrowly) won against it because I had a LB on MNK. Tackle > LB to kill them. And then... I picked up the medals and kited THEM around our base with Fists of Wind and Shoulder Tackle, same way they did for us, and timed them out.

It's a really lame strategy, and people already suggested force people out of spawn... and I can see it becoming a problem in the near future with the Vuln change once again. (It needed to stay severe.)

If you're a fuckwad that does this though; stop ruining PVP.

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Originally Posted by ZanzhizExaverion

If you're a fuckwad that does this though; stop ruining PVP.

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Winning is winning. Why let someone trundle up to you and LB you in the face when the only way to really break LOS is to play on the stairs?

Big stacks of coins make a mess of the game, you can turn arronnd like a crazy or be on the range of healer and get healed till the mana is gone. i don't think turn arround is the good one
Don't realy have a clue of the good strategy here.
I doun't count game loosed because of these stacks.
also i don't agree to say it's only a lame strategy to get away with the stacks, this is just a lame mechanic, you can LB someone with 10 stacks and get back your 10 stack and run away with it also, it's just too much for a comeback mechanic, LB is already comeback mechanic as well. Many match will be loosed even in case when your group was better but just loose all the stack just right before the timeover.

People aren't using stuns and binds correctly if you are accomplishing this. getting focused with 9 stacks is pretty much assured death for any tank after hallowed ground , or living dead wears off. But if they didn't fix it and you can do it then its fair game in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Elfidan

People aren't using stuns and binds correctly if you are accomplishing this. getting focused with 9 stacks is pretty much assured death for any tank after hallowed ground , or living dead wears off. But if they didn't fix it and you can do it then its fair game in my opinion.

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I understand that, but this is a pit/arena mode, the intention of the medal debuffs was for people to die, the LB change was made for people to die and the removal of some LoS walls from middle was to stop casters from just running in circles and....die. I have no problems with some sort of walls being at the spawn arena, my problem is {referring off 4v4 solo with lack of good coordination most of time} is that tanks with a head start have a massive elevated circular wall to just burn sprint and cds running away/hiding with a healer safely healing from top or bottom. If tanks didn't want to die so easily, they should communicate to the other members to pick up medals, like it was intended. I also wouldn't want this to become LB to win either.

I really don't see this as any different from having my team back up to our spawn when we have a lead in medals and there's a minute left on the clock. If we don't anything to gain from engaging, why engage?

If you're letting a single tank lure you in circles, you really need to learn how to send one guy up one set of stairs, one up the other, and park the third waiting for them on the drop off.

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Originally Posted by Isala

If you're letting a single tank lure you in circles, you really need to learn how to send one guy up one set of stairs, one up the other, and park the third waiting for them on the drop off.

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You give too much credit to the general pop. of current feast players

I think most people are translating my OP into "Do you even heavy/bind/stun bruh?" (MCH Utility belt, why wouldn't I use it?) when I meant "Is it even worth chasing that 10medal tank the last 0:30s-1min with 3 people who may or may not know what their doing without relying on a melee's stun+LB because of a 4 foot wall giving an advantage in terms of distance and breaking LoS".

Do it happen as often? Not Really
I'm sure the same reason they gave to reducing the center walls applies here, its just generally annoying and when it does happen, I have a nice bag of salty popcorn on deck.

Oh, I'm giving absolutely no credit at all. I just know that there's always going to be someone chasing them around to the sounds of the Benny Hill theme. The catch is to be waiting for it, either by circling around the other way, or be at the bottom when they jump.

With so much LB coming out you have to kind of camp it out. Here's my problem with the big stacks: Once one team makes a big stack, it stays a big stack for the rest of the game, which isn't as fun. So if the enemy goes 9 stack, dies, now I have to go 8 or 9 stacks, now I have to camp in the spawn and run around, then I die, and now the other tank is 9 stack. You rinse and repeat this until the clock hits 0. So to me it's just kind of dumb that either tank can set off a chain that hurts the "integrity" of the match.

The largest issue with this is dps just not picking up medals. In Solo que if you say that 25% of dps are actually ok to good, but then it is like only 1 out of 5 of those (so 5% of all dps) are good and pick up medals.

This happened twice to me in a row yesterday where I get first drop, then second comes... We get a third kill.... At this point the coins are about to be lost or I have to pick up and will have 7 stacks.

Now I have half a match where I am sitting at 7 stacks, at somepoint the other team will focus me, and I need to be in tank stance or not wipe the floor in 1.5 seconds. As a tank in tank stance my dps to the fight is kind of pointless given so little, so my best bet for the win is to run around and just and hold the other team off from killing me. Do I like this? NO

And the problem got worst yesterday, as people saw "medals got adjusted" and for who knows what reason think tanks can take all the stacks again, so they are not picking up more then ever.

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Originally Posted by Jubez187

With so much LB coming out you have to kind of camp it out. Here's my problem with the big stacks: Once one team makes a big stack, it stays a big stack for the rest of the game, which isn't as fun. So if the enemy goes 9 stack, dies, now I have to go 8 or 9 stacks, now I have to camp in the spawn and run around, then I die, and now the other tank is 9 stack. You rinse and repeat this until the clock hits 0. So to me it's just kind of dumb that either tank can set off a chain that hurts the "integrity" of the match.

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If the Dps/healer who lost those medals picks it up, they will be at most 2 stacks. The issue is, they will never actually pick it up.

i have make a macro to call dps to take the coin, i try to get 4 stacks and no more, but if the enemy tanks make a hugh coin stacks, i still have the same problem.
I realy hate this because when a hugh stacks is make it just break the game and make it like a coin stacks ping pong party.
Just LB this guy in the last 30 second and your loose = win

Dps picks medals, tank don't take 10 stacks XD

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Originally Posted by kensatsu

I realy hate this because when a hugh stacks is make it just break the game and make it like a coin stacks ping pong party.
Just LB this guy in the last 30 second and your loose = win

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Originally Posted by Jubez187

So if the enemy goes 9 stack, dies, now I have to go 8 or 9 stacks, now I have to camp in the spawn and run around, then I die, and now the other tank is 9 stack. You rinse and repeat this until the clock hits 0. So to me it's just kind of dumb that either tank can set off a chain that hurts the "integrity" of the match.

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Which is why a lot of (solo queue) matches can just devolve into a giant game of hot-potato. It's fairly jarring that so many matches end up being decided in the last half-minute of the game.

I've done this 3 times today.

5% health left with stacks and 9 seconds on the clock? Living Dead ooooo I'm a spooky zombie :3c. I can't imagine how mad people get, it must be great.

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Originally Posted by Jubez187

With so much LB coming out you have to kind of camp it out. Here's my problem with the big stacks: Once one team makes a big stack, it stays a big stack for the rest of the game, which isn't as fun. So if the enemy goes 9 stack, dies, now I have to go 8 or 9 stacks, now I have to camp in the spawn and run around, then I die, and now the other tank is 9 stack. You rinse and repeat this until the clock hits 0. So to me it's just kind of dumb that either tank can set off a chain that hurts the "integrity" of the match.

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Yup this is a huge problem. Even if you as a tank, or the tank on your team is smart enough to not hoard medals up to absurd stack counts its irrelevant if the opposing team does it anyway.

This kinda reminds me of the hide the flag tactics from Warsong Gulch in WoW, strategy is strategy. As someone pointed out, you can anticipate the movements and head them off.

Just had a ninja cheese the match with 280medals and hide majority of match, SE need to make Detect an aura/duration skill or drastically lower the cd if they are going to allow this in feast. Kinda hard to go play hide and seek with a 150s cd and my solo team once again ignoring "the ninja is hiding". -eating more salty popcorn-

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Originally Posted by xTysonx

Just had a ninja cheese the match with 280medals and hide majority of match, SE need to make Detect an aura/duration skill or drastically lower the cd if they are going to allow this in feast. Kinda hard to go play hide and seek with a 150s cd and my solo team once again ignoring "the ninja is hiding". -eating more salty popcorn-

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It seems that hiding with medals actually was a legitimate tactic and not an oversight on SE's part as they have had plenty of feedback on this and remained silent on the matter nor have they addressed it in any of the updates or dev notes. So annoying seeing all these Ninjas now. They consist of the vast majority of the melee dps queues on primal.

Dark Knight's are non existent lol.

Heading them off has happened in multiple battles I've been in. It's happened to me and I've assisted in it. everything has a counter , but I do think the hide the medals is a bit much in solo. I am sorry you're having such a bad time with it though Tyson.

Honestly speaking, any player (including Tanks) should be actively avoiding having that many medals in the first place. If you do get them by accident, then running and hiding, breaking LoS, and doing whatever else is possible to avoid dying is really the only option.

"Hiding" with medals is probably the only thing about it that kind of bugs me, but not because of the viability of the tactic. I'm more concerned with how widespread that tactic has become. It encourages ninjas to pick up absurd quantities of medals and camp out with them, which is bad for a bunch of reasons (mainly because if they get caught the match devolves into a tug-o-war of medals with people LB'ing whoever picks up that 9 stack). It also encourages one and only one kind of party composition. It has gotten to the point where I've started considering replacing my Pld with my War in PvP because I know that the odds are very good that my melee Dps will be a damn Ninja.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

It seems that hiding with medals actually was a legitimate tactic and not an oversight on SE's part as they have had plenty of feedback on this and remained silent on the matter nor have they addressed it in any of the updates or dev notes. So annoying seeing all these Ninjas now. They consist of the vast majority of the melee dps queues on primal.

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They stay silent on a lot of things. Like Match Throwers in Solo queue.

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Originally Posted by Isala

They stay silent on a lot of things. Like Match Throwers in Solo queue.

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Nah they made a post regarding that a while ago encouraging players to report that behavior. Whether they are actually doing anything with those reports is anot her matter entirely I agree but they have at least acknowledged it unlike with this issue with nins hiding medals.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

Nah they made a post regarding that a while ago encouraging players to report that behavior. Whether they are actually doing anything with those reports is anot her matter entirely I agree but they have at least acknowledged it unlike with this issue with nins hiding medals.

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Report in Premade queue, yes. But official GM response to me was that until their CMs say solo queue is an issue, they can't do diddly.

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Originally Posted by Isala

Report in Premade queue, yes. But official GM response to me was that until their CMs say solo queue is an issue, they can't do diddly.

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Wow. I assumed they issued that post in regards to both modes. For them to segregate it like that makes little sense. Behavior like that is even more detrimental than in party because it's affecting players on your team that have nothing to do with it.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

Wow. I assumed they issued that post in regards to both modes. For them to segregate it like that makes little sense. Behavior like that is even more detrimental than in party because it's affecting players on your team that have nothing to do with it.

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Yeah, they finally gave me that response after I reported a known feeder about 10 times, and told me to post on the official forums for a response. I did. Got silence. So... Yay, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Dimitrii

It seems that hiding with medals actually was a legitimate tactic [...]. So annoying seeing all these Ninjas now. They consist of the vast majority of the melee dps queues on primal.

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Even the passive speed boost is annoying. They can just run faster than you in any case (and now use sprint without any counterpart) and can use Hyoton if you catch them up. (Don't tell me to use gap closer, I m a smn, I can't do anything against a ninja who do that not even use tribind because it's 6s now when their bind are 12. -_- Don't tell me either that it's a team play and someone else can do it, you know how solo queue is) I found it annoying in fl because it is impossible to take down a nin who want to flee but well... and it's kinda worste here. This speed and the fall damage reduced always pissed me a lot.
I know it's in their toolkit, that it's not completly op and cie. But I can't stop to think "Ewwwwwwwww really dude? really?!" each time I saw that.

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Originally Posted by Nidelia

This speed and the fall damage reduced always pissed me a lot.

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Here's what I don't get. Why does NIN get Fall reduction, but not DRG?

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Originally Posted by Isala

Here's what I don't get. Why does NIN get Fall reduction, but not DRG?

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This crap always bothered me. It doesn't make sense job lore wise which is how they probably justify giving nin such a trait in the first place.