emnity issue

So, I'm coming back from about a 5 month break. At this point pretty much everyone has there 230's/240.

Currently on my pld my royal authority is pretty much useless as any decent dps pretty much rides my ass from pull onward. Currently the seph weapon is my only means of getting a better weapon. Is there anything that I can do to even the odds or am I just screwed till I can get a lore weapon in 7 weeks?

I have full 220 crafted minus pants necklace and bracelet
Which are all 200. At Ilvl 218 currently. Seph ex has is a horrid experience as a MT when there is a whm in the party and my dps just gets floored.

i210 weapon should be fine against seph weapon DPS, maybe something is up with your opener.

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Originally Posted by Drtoxicmedica

At Ilvl 218 currently. Seph ex has is a horrid experience as a MT when there is a whm in the party and my dps just gets floored.

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I just hit iLv215 on both my PLD and DRK, and I'm usually MT on Sephiroth like 99% of the time. It was an easy curve for survival as PLD, but DRK took some learning and work. That said, I was doing Sephirot originally as an iLv213 PLD with the 210 Eso weapon and shield. I started as DRK at iLv212 with Eso weapon as well.

On the initial pull with Shield Lob then Scorn, I can also sometimes get a Shield Swipe triggered. My first combo is Halone. Those things by itself are solid grounds to start the Royal Authority combo since Savage Blade is also an enmity-booster. In the beginning, Shield Lob, Scorn, Savage Blade, Halone is a minimum of 4 attacks that'll keep your enmity high if you don't miss.

You can pre-pop Sheltron to get a guaranteed Shield Swipe, which is pretty good to have in your burst enmity opener. I believe you can also use Sheltron on the first cleave and have it back up for the tank buster, but it's been awhile since I've done the fight so I don't remember the timing too well ( and I've only done it as DRK P: ).

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

You can pre-pop Sheltron to get a guaranteed Shield Swipe, which is pretty good to have in your burst enmity opener. I believe you can also use Sheltron on the first cleave and have it back up for the tank buster, but it's been awhile since I've done the fight so I don't remember the timing too well ( and I've only done it as DRK P: ).

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Someone some time ago called me stupid because I DIDN'T use Sheltron solo for the first TB. However, it's that secondary cleave that'll get me. So, I now couple Shelton with each defensive CD (ie Sheltron + Foresight, Sheltron + Rampart, etc). People argued that I don't need to couple Sheltron, but I always gave healers a heart attack when I didn't couple.

So, I just continue to play it safe, especially if the healer(s) didn't give me a shield or used Virus, and it's been fine enough to get me a couple of weapons and such.

Gotta love that tank buster as a PLD I survive better than DRK XD that pure physical damage it's delicious taking it head on all to yourself :d

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

i210 weapon should be fine against seph weapon DPS, maybe something is up with your opener.

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Not having issues with seph weapon dps. It's lore/upgrade lore weapon dps.

Turn ShO on? Press your GCDs faster? There doesn't seem to be enough sufficient information here to troubleshoot.
You should be able to maintain hate with a bit of stance dancing with a 20ilvl difference range. 30 you will most likely need to stick into ShO longer but that isn't all that bad considering the penalty is not as heavy anymore. Perhaps you're overreacting to the enmity bars? It's really not dangerous unless the bars are 90% filled.

There's really not much else to say other than wear VIT, use food, and rotate some more halones. If you have a Warrior or Dark Knight you can ask them to open with Unchained/Power Slashes to give you an enmity lead to swap into.

although i havnt tanked any ex primals on my alt i can say in dungeons against a blm friend who is pushing m4s i can hold agro against him with my alt at 207-8 i forget exactly but def well under his ilvl and im only using a 210 weapon 230 chest and rest an even mix between 200-210.

i usually start with shield lob, fof, sheltron, halone combo mixing in ocgds like cos, spirits within and shield swipe which usuallly procs instantly because of sheltron. then cycle through goring and royal authority, repeat.
usually i stay shield oath in dungeons but after youve gone through those combos you could easily drop it and shouldnt have issues and even after the second halone combo you could drop it for royal authority and just monitor if you needed another halone.

really you shouldnt be having any issues unless your using str accs not realising the vit changes.

well you should always start a Boss Fight With FoF no matter what.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

You can pre-pop Sheltron to get a guaranteed Shield Swipe, which is pretty good to have in your burst enmity opener. I believe you can also use Sheltron on the first cleave and have it back up for the tank buster, but it's been awhile since I've done the fight so I don't remember the timing too well ( and I've only done it as DRK P: ).

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Yes. I pop it in my opener to eat the first cleave and give me some enmity, and it's back up before the first TB.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

Someone some time ago called me stupid because I DIDN'T use Sheltron solo for the first TB. However, it's that secondary cleave that'll get me. So, I now couple Shelton with each defensive CD (ie Sheltron + Foresight, Sheltron + Rampart, etc). People argued that I don't need to couple Sheltron, but I always gave healers a heart attack when I didn't couple.

So, I just continue to play it safe, especially if the healer(s) didn't give me a shield or used Virus, and it's been fine enough to get me a couple of weapons and such.

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The person that called you stupid was being pretty stupid imo. There's no reason to space your cooldowns out to the point that you're only using one for any given skill if you have cooldowns that are just going to sit there completely unused in the rotation. The point is to make sure you have enough to go around. Sheltron is up so often that there's no reason not to spam the ever-living crap out of it in Sephirot EX with all the physical damage he slings around. If you rotate correctly, you can couple Sheltron with each cooldown you use for Chesed and mitigate that much more damage. I always do Rampart + Sheltron, Sentinel + Sheltron, Foresight + Sheltron, and then Rampart + Sheltron will be up again if DPS is low enough that you get a 4th tankbuster.

@OP - make sure you're using FoF in your opener and whenever else you have an opportunity. If you're doing that and you have a solid opener but you're still having problems, you may just have to resign yourself to using RoH more often until you can upgrade your weapon. It's really not a huge deal if this is the case. Tank DPS isn't what it used to be anyway and if the DPS players are doing that much damage that they're riding the line of ripping hate off of you, the damage you lose by using RoH shouldn't be needed to clear anyway. Is it more than one WHM that you're having problems with ripping hate off of you? Did they use Shroud of Saints at all? Were DPS using their enmity reduction skills as well? Are any Ninjas in the party making sure to use their skills on you? There's a lot of things that other players in the party can do to make it easier for you to maintain your enmity lead.

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Originally Posted by Ebonwings

Gotta love that tank buster as a PLD I survive better than DRK XD that pure physical damage it's delicious taking it head on all to yourself :d

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As DRK, I gave myself a lot of learning time by creating learning parties. I learned to save Dark Dance and Reprisal for those Tank Busters when I have to use Foresight if Shadowskin and Shadow Wall are down.

I'd use Dark Dance just after the two jumps to get the parry in when Sephirot's chasing me back to the center, so Reprisal can be ready for the Tank Buster.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

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It\\'s not me losing hate. It\\'s about me losing out on my dps rotation primarily. Mainly in seph ex with a well geared whm and dragoons. No other class makes me absolutely feel like I\\'m going to lose the base if I royal authority freaquently. I'm fine once the whm shrouds at least till they build back up. Dragoons/monks in particular are the issue most of the time. But if there dps is countering me using halone more often I can deal with that. I'm trying to get use to how tank dps factors into things now people seem to just view us. Espically pld as a meat shield nothing else. Just want to pull my weight is all

For reference. My opening rotation varies.
For seph ex with a whm or well geared drg my opener goes
Sheltron-shieldlob-FoF - FB(sc)-SB(shield swipe) RH(spirits within)-FB-RB-GB-FB-SB-RH.

That usually nets me enough burst emnity to use royal authority more liberally. My rotation when shadewalked/don't have to worry about high Ilvl peeps starts with GB combo into rage and royal before FoF turns off. Andy thing wrong with that or am I just gonna have to deal with it for now?

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Originally Posted by Drtoxicmedica

It's about me losing out on my dps rotation primarily.

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Holding hate and surviving are both more primary and important to your role as a tank in any encounter than your DPS. Push to maximize your damage output, yes, but do not do so at the cost of holding hate or surviving the damage you take. While you're gearing, this means using Rage of Halone more frequently on the pull, and then switching to Royal Authority once you've got a threat lead. Once you have more gear (focus on your sword), you can probably make that switch sooner.

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

Holding hate and surviving are both more primary and important to your role as a tank in any encounter than your DPS. Push to maximize your damage output, yes, but do not do so at the cost of holding hate or surviving the damage you take. While you're gearing, this means using Rage of Halone more frequently on the pull, and then switching to Royal Authority once you've got a threat lead. Once you have more gear (focus on your sword), you can probably make that switch sooner.

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My question wasn't what a tanks meant to do. My question was how can I optimize. I've tanked since I started playing this game back in final coil. What to focus on gear wise is not what I'm asking. I know the weapon comes first. But that'd roughly 6 weeks away. I'm asking for tips to min max before hand if there is a way. I don't lose threat that's not my problem. It's maxing my dps while being under geared at this point. Of it at all matters

Probably suboptimal, but at an i211pld with 210 weapon, I have zero issues if I can get off at least four buffed Halone's in the first FoF, especially if I can add in two shield swipes. I generally don't have issues going into SwO immediately after and just coasting for the next couple of minutes with Authority.

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Originally Posted by Drtoxicmedica

My question wasn't what a tanks meant to do. My question was how can I optimize. I've tanked since I started playing this game back in final coil. What to focus on gear wise is not what I'm asking. I know the weapon comes first. But that'd roughly 6 weeks away. I'm asking for tips to min max before hand if there is a way.

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Not really too much. Do a search on Google for FFXIV stat weights and you'll get to Dervy's blog, which will give you your stat priority. I believe PLD wants Crit > Det > SkS for DPS, but I'm not too familiar (I'm not in a static yet, and don't have ARM high enough to make the High Mythrite stuff, so I just take whatever iLvl upgrade I can get).

Outside of that, make sure that you wait for Fight or Flight to use Circle of Scorn and Goring Blade - the duration is just long enough to where you'll be able to refresh both while it's still up. I've heard of people tricking Spirits Within to hit twice in the magic pixel somehow, but I haven't been able to get that particular trick to work consistently.

You'll probably need to start in ShO to build your enmity, and you might not be able to hold off of super-geared players without it until their CDs have worn off.

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Originally Posted by Drtoxicmedica

I don't lose threat that's not my problem. It's maxing my dps while being under geared at this point. Of it at all matters

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Your thread title is a little misleading.

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

Not really too much. Do a search on Google for FFXIV stat weights and you'll get to Dervy's blog, which will give you your stat priority. I believe PLD wants Det > Crit > SkS for DPS, but I'm not too familiar (I'm not in a static yet, and don't have ARM high enough to make the High Mythrite stuff, so I just take whatever iLvl upgrade I can get).

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The only reason Why DET>CRIT>SkSCRIT>DET>SkS is such for PLD is mainly because the job revolves around having 9GCD; GB>RA/RoH>RA/RoH combo. You can slot in Fracture in between if you have high SkS (10GCD) but it's really pointless since the skill itself is very weak vs RA/GB increased potency. On top of that SkS doesn't do anything for your Sword Oath, making it worse to stack vs DET/CRIT that can impact the overall damage from all sources. Without any boost for SkS, you are still able to get the 9GCD setup to work no matter what, unless if you are lagging or something.

People use Dervy's stat weights but they don't know how secondary stats generally work with all the job's kit? Very alarming. It's just like healers stacking CRIT/DET instead of Accuracy because they want to save mana?? Logical? How are you saving mana if you keep missing dots application? Or like "OH, I can get 1.1K SkS with my Dragoon, I CAN DO MORE DPS". Often it's not the case at all.

Oh one question I'm not sure if people here have asked you yet.

You were gone for 5 months
Are you still using STR accessories? Even if it wouldnt be making much of a difference for you at this current moment it would be good for you to know the STR accessory meta is over
If this was already mentioned i apologize

Great thing to mention, Zari, so thanks for bringing it up! Vit and Str both affect AP equally, at .45 AP per point of each. It's almost universally better to use Vit accessories, because they'll usually give you more AP than their Str counterparts (there are some exceptions).

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Originally Posted by Sarcatica

People use Dervy's stat weights but they don't know how secondary stats generally work with all the job's kit? Very alarming. It's just like healers stacking CRIT/DET instead of Accuracy because they want to save mana?? Logical? How are you saving mana if you keep missing dots application? Or like "OH, I can get 1.1K SkS with my Dragoon, I CAN DO MORE DPS". Often it's not the case at all.

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I find it kind of ironic that I've inspired this rant, considering how I'm the tanking forums' resident crazy Parry advocate. Even though I know the DPS weights, I don't really subscribe to the notion that tanks should sacrifice any mitigation (even tiny amounts) for marginal DPS gains. I'm also backwards and like to stack SkS on my Paladin, but it's largely because I like hitting buttons more frequently.

Also, as you aluded to in your last post, Fracture is a pure DPS loss for PLD once they get Goring Blade. It only out-potency's the Rage of Halone combo at that point, so GCDs are better spent on the Goring Blade or Royal Authority, even if it's only starting the combo.

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Originally Posted by Sarcatica

The only reason Why DET>CRIT>SkS is such for PLD is mainly because the job revolves around having 9GCD; GB>RA/RoH>RA/RoH combo. You can slot in Fracture in between if you have high SkS (10GCD) but it's really pointless since the skill itself is very weak vs RA/GB increased potency. On top of that SkS doesn't do anything for your Sword Oath, making it worse to stack vs DET/CRIT that can impact the overall damage from all sources. Without any boost for SkS, you are still able to get the 9GCD setup to work no matter what, unless if you are lagging or something.

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I was under the impression that crit > det for PLDs after the HW changes.

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Originally Posted by Brian_

I was under the impression that crit > det for PLDs after the HW changes.

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Oh man, mistake there. CRIT>DET is always the case for most classes. Good catch.

Well I think the problem stems purely from playing on a ps3 currently and dealing with a so-so connection. Having equivalent gear to another pld buddy who clears the a5s dummy with 30 seconds remaining I fail at 3%. He has zero enmity issues and can stance dance.

Which is just a complete bummer. I can't even tank current content without being carried due to latency....

Spam rage of halone LoL simply, easy

with paladins it's a little more complicated. If you're not under-geared you can tank entire encounters easy without the RoH combo, simply because savage blade. at that point you're sacrificing the STR down debuff. Do you value your job as a tank to reduce incoming damage as much as you can with your kit, or do more damage by skipping the RoH combo? on a magic boss it's a no brainer obviously.

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Originally Posted by Mirch

Spam rage of halone LoL simply, easy

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It is more complicated!

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Originally Posted by ashwich

with paladins it's a little more complicated.

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As Ashwitch said!

First you spam flash, THEN spam riot!!! It is much way complicated! >:C You need to use 2 additional skills. not just basic combo! >:C

No matter if you are undergeared. It's a dungeon, not savage content.
UNTIL you pull everything up to first boss or you run a dun in your holiday's swimsuit, RoH STR debuff shoudn't even matter.
You have defensive cooldowns for use anytime you need 'em, and all these speedruns can be done with just those cooldowns,

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BUT if you are undergeared, why do you make such pull?

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Originally Posted by Yuni_Queen

It is more complicated!

As Ashwitch said!

First you spam flash, THEN spam riot!!! It is much way complicated! >:C You need to use 2 additional skills. not just basic combo! >:C

No matter if you are undergeared. It's a dungeon, not savage content.
UNTIL you pull everything up to first boss or you run a dun in your holiday's swimsuit, RoH STR debuff shoudn't even matter.
You have defensive cooldowns for use anytime you need 'em, and all these speedruns can be done with just those cooldowns,

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BUT if you are undergeared, why do you make such pull?

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OH My bad, we're not talking about content that matters... like Savage... okay yes the cooldowns are enough, pull the entire dungeon and HG.

spam Rage of Halone :D ihihihihihihihi

what would you do is what 99% of the peeps will tell you:
-shield oath on all tie
-switch target when RoH combo is ready
-shield lob + flash + circle of scorn +blablabla

I say find your own way to tank, use yer head pal :D

The thing with PLD is that you need to use FoF properly when undergeared. By that, I mean how I pull Sephirot (for instance) is:
Lob > FB>SB>[Shel+FoF]>RoH>[CoS+SW]>FB>[SS]>RB>GB>FB>SB>RA>FB>SB>RA>FB>RB>GB

I did this at i213-ish using Hauteclaire with Sephirot-wep DPS pulling 1700-1900 openers and never lost hate aside from one time when the BRD forgot quelling strikes.

In Sephirot, you should only be using RoH before each tank buster in p1 - that'll give more than enough of an aggro lead going into final phase to do the entire thing in Sword Oath, in my experience.


If you have a White Mage riding your ass, there is a 100% chance that the White Mage is garbage and doing something they shouldn't be doing. Even if they're solo-healing, the only way a WHM is gonna pull hate off you is if they've got 50-60% overheal.