Super-mega-grind

Is it just me, or is crafting in FFXIV the
grindiest of all grinds ever invented in a MMO?

Is there a single game in human history where
crafting was grindier, or does FFXIV hold the
ultimate record? :cool:

Was FFXI longer?

Oh my god, I have been complaining to my LS for the last week about crafting. Now that materia is in the game each player really needs a 50 craft to compliment their main battlecraft. I have been leveling weaving to support my conjurer. After a week or 2, I have been able to get it from 18 - 31 and it is sooooooooooooooooo boring. I fall asleep after maybe 2 hours. It is UNBEARABLE.

Just watch tv/movies and spam the button.

I applaud people who actually have 50 crafts... Tony Montana comes to mind... he has all of them leveled. This was prior to 1.19 but I couldn't bare to even push enter for hours on end.

I suggest getting 99 leve allowance and burning through them to level a craft.



EDIT: OMFG LOL AS I WAS WRITING THIS HE POSTS ABOVE ME.... freaky



2nd EDIT: Check out my idea for crafting

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...252#post416252

Crafting wise XIV is probally the hardest mmo to level up crafts based off pure time it takes. XI was much harder for most to do it due to a gil restriction where 1 craft level could cost upwards of 4-5million (~10-15million in XIV gil) and there where 10-20 levels where you had to just burn absurd amount of gil to level to cap.

So it all depends on how you see it. Do you want to farm mobs for 10-20hrs to get 1 level, or do you want to take 3-4hrs per level crafting cheap stuff.

I would say XI, if you include the farming to make the money to level... was much much harder and more of a grind.

Leveling a craft in this game has actually been fun for me. You actually do something that's not just clicking synth and praying. I've felt extreme satisfaction when I rescue a synth from near death.

But yes. High levels have a LOT of EXP to overcome. Just... like Tony said.... pop in a movie and relax.

One simple change for crafting would make me so much happier:

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The ability to turn off animations and get the results of your action (standard, rapid, careful, etc) immediately.

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I don't need to see you put the damn thread in the damn item for the 1millionth time.

I actually love crafting. If it were not for crafting, I would of never discovered Breaking Bad on Netflix. Such an awesome show!

If I'm watching a movie while playing a video game, then that's the first sign something is wrong. If I'm paying more attention and I'm more engaged in the movie than the video game, then I know it's time to play a new video game.

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pop in a movie and relax.

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If it were not for crafting, I would of never discovered Breaking Bad on Netflix.

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Hmm.
So even those who do grind to LV 50 do everything possible to avoid investing attention to the process of crafting.

That's so... old-school. I understand there has to be something that keeps the idiots from hitting the level cap too fast, but to me it actually looks like it's the other way round: any idiot who is o.k. with pressing the same button for the umptenmillionth time is rewarded.

I guess the crafting system is in for a major overhaul once they have fixed the battle system.

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If I'm watching a movie while playing a video game, then that's the first sign something is wrong.

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Exactly.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Was FFXI longer?

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Nope. It sure wasn't.

I used to need to do a few DoL/DoH leves to get sleepy, now I'm sleepy just thinking about it. Other times when my head's not working right it'll feel like meditation or something.
So it's all good actually, for me, at least.
Of course some really good puzzle game would be perfect, well...

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Originally Posted by Rinsui

Is it just me, or is crafting in FFXIV the
grindiest of all grinds ever invented in a MMO?

Is there a single game in human history where
crafting was grindier, or does FFXIV hold the
ultimate record? :cool:

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It depends on how you want to do it. If you simply want to get from 1-50 as fast as possible you are setting yourself up for a grind. If, on the other hand, you want to make gil, you might look into purchasing materials @ the wards and craft them into finished goods for others to consume. I find the latter to be much more enjoyable, and I find that it also accomplishes the former nearly the same.

While the task of synthesis is rightfully seen as tedious and boring, the enjoyment comes from the challenge in participating in a market.

I don't think synthesis or gathering is there for everyone. Even some people elect to only play as crafters or gatherers and neglect the battle aspect of the game. So, if your preference is against it, why not forget about it? Obviously something has motivated you to pursue crafting; if the incentive is great enough, I think you should go through with it.

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Originally Posted by Rinsui

Is there a single game in human history where
crafting was grindier...

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I don't know why, but the way you use the word "grind" made me think of stripper poles...

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I've managed to get most crafts to near 25, but that's only the easy half of the whole battle

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Uh-oh. You're in for a nasty surprise once you realize that 25 is not even close to halfway ^.^/

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Originally Posted by RemVye

I suggest getting 99 leve allowance and burning through them to level a craft.

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This.

Every 60-70leves you do = 250ksp @ level 40 for no cost whatsoever. I'm doing this every sunday, not exactly the fastest way, but is at least tolerable if you're watching anime or something.

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Originally Posted by Shikaree

Burn your leves on crafting, switch to any DoH class when turning in a quest reward for exp. It's too easy otherwise to go level any class that battles and DoL isn't that bad either.

I've been on a burn lately for anything that is easy while we still have it (nuggets, etc). I've managed to get most crafts to near 25, but that's only the easy half of the whole battle.

Curse myself that I forsake leveling battle classes and doing dungeons otherwise cause I'd rather be able to make something myself. Not like I have anyone to do these things with anyway.

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FYI level 40 is the half-way point in terms of total exp... :D have fun

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Originally Posted by Rinsui

Uh-oh. You're in for a nasty surprise once you realize that 25 is not even close to halfway ^.^/

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Indeed, 40 is halfway and 30 is about 25% there.

"Should I do things I don't enjoy?"

FFXIV Player answer: "of course!"

Crafting in this game is just plain boring. They though hey why not make crafting more interacting, more of a class on it's own, for sure that would be better then what other mmos do..... Yeah no... not a good idea. I much prefer WOW's version of press 1 button and it crafts alone or press another button to craft the maximum amount of times based on your materials. It basically does the same as FFXIV but without the whole bore me to death and slavery feeling to it.

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

"Should I do things I don't enjoy?"

FFXIV Player answer: "of course!"

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Should a recreative video games who's purpose is to make you forget real life make you work harder then real life? SE thinks so.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

Should a recreative video games who's purpose is to make you forget real life make you work harder then real life? SE thinks so.

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I want your job.

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Originally Posted by Shikaree

Lol, I'm well aware of the increasing exp amounts as I go up! I just meant level wise :p

It'll be all worth it when I finally get to master crafter levels! /goodbyelife

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lol level wise, but not even close to time wise or number of synths per level. Call it half-way if you like, but its more like 1/5 of the way there haha.

Getting my armorer to 33 was like eating concrete... horrible in every way. :D

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Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah

I want your job.

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A lot of people do. But it doesn't change the fact that i rather go to work then craft in FFXIV and that just doesn't sound right.

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Originally Posted by Onidemon

A lot of people do. But it doesn't change the fact that i rather go to work then craft in FFXIV and that just doesn't sound right.

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I'd rather go to work than play many of the games out there.

I have figured out the perfect solution though. Hopefully you can too.

I never found crafting to be any worse than mindlessly attacking a mob and spamming abilities.

Actually... I found it infiitely more enjoyable.... Personally I'd rather craft than do dungeons.... but that's me. I know people that enjoy dungeons and battle content probably find crafting tedious/boring but I find it soothing and relaxing (unless stuff starts shattering for no reason). /fistshakes at the moon.

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Originally Posted by TonyMontana

Just watch tv/movies and spam the button.

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You know I actually have quite a problem with this...

I mean if we have to "pop" in a movie just to get away from the tedium of grinding a craft, i feel as if the developers have failed.. i mean if it isnt entertaining enough... why do it? It is a game isn't it? Is it not supposed to keep you entertained?

Just my two cents.

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Originally Posted by Blarp

If I'm watching a movie while playing a video game, then that's the first sign something is wrong. If I'm paying more attention and I'm more engaged in the movie than the video game, then I know it's time to play a new video game.

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This. 100% agree.

Implement 2 styles of crafting 1. Easy mode wow style synths for recipes meant to be used for lvling with higher chance of fail. 2. System we have now for every recipe. That way we can choose how we want to craft.

Well, I'm saving my guildleve allowance for craft, and I'm getting one level per 12-13 allowances even after level 45. Better save allowance for craft and grind a DoW-DoM, at least, for me.

I'm gonna say that FFXI had it worse because there was 100 levels on each and they needed heavy funding. But FFXIv is also pretty heavy but it's also a lot more accessible, the problems is that you are much more dependent on crafting classes though.

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Originally Posted by Shikaree

Good point behind this. FFXIV was said to have a more casual approach compared to FFXI. While early level crafting may look easy enough, once you build your way in you see it progressively gets longer and much more tedious compared to any DoW or DoM. You just can't pour in exp as fast no matter what you do, even if you're using those manuals to boost exp gain rate (and it's not permanent and getting company seals is no easy task atm).

And what else is there to do than sit and spam enter on a random color appearing orb all day?

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Exactly. I mean just about an hour ago i used a manual. And it lasted only two of my miner leves. I was like WTF?! It said at the top of the screen 3 hours but apparently its THAT OR certain amount of exp.

And as you said... seals aren't easy to come by.. and really.. id rather not have to grind something else just to get a certificate to grind MORE on my gathering profession (for a VERY limited bonus). Its just not worth it.

Edit: Im starting to get the feeling devs are losing the point in games these days.

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Originally Posted by Blarp

If I'm watching a movie while playing a video game, then that's the first sign something is wrong. If I'm paying more attention and I'm more engaged in the movie than the video game, then I know it's time to play a new video game.

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Very true, the point of playing the game is to do something fun, not tedious and in need of a distraction to accomplish.

I mean heck... if they let me mine in an actual mine along with others at least talking to them would get rid of some of the tedium. Lol...

Hey, guys, let's bitch more about a system that's going to be revamped!

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Sonomaa (BG): What are you planning on doing about the monotonous crafting mechanics? People literally sit and press enter for hours on end. Why was this specific crafting style chosen over something simplistic and automatic ala World of Warcraft? I hate to keep going back to World of Warcraft, but they're winning.

Square-Enix: It's a matter of priority so far. For the past 10 months, we prioritized all of the things we thought we needed to get fixed first. On the top of that list: UI, Battle System. Also, Content, where the content was based on Guildleves. So, over the past 10 months, it has been fixing the things that needed fixes and adding more content. With the Crafting System, again, we prioritized what needed to be fixed first. The first thing that needed to be fixed was that the Recipe System was way too complex - way too many ingredients, way too many steps to get to your final product. Something that was way too difficult for the novice player to get into. You would have to be hardcore if you wanted to make something. So getting those things fixed first was our priority.

[Yoshida speaks more]

And he's going on more; it's the amount of materials you needed. It wasn't just pressing Enter, it was having to get ALL of these materials before pressing Enter. And so the next step, which we hope to do really soon, is now shorten the number of steps to actually do the crafting. Instead of, you know, sitting down, doing the thing, standing up, getting your stuff, etc. Consolidate all of it and cut down on the steps is the next step being taken.

And one of the things we're planning is two different crafting systems. One that's very simplified and that you're going just for the item you need without having to worry about High Quality, with a small chance of High Quality. Then there's the other system, where it will take more time and effort, but the chance of getting that High Quality item will become higher. So the people who want to spend more time and do it carefully will have the higher chance of a High Quality, and then the people who want to get it done, they have the consolidated system.
BG: Will you be abolishing breaks? Like FFXI had breaks, where you could lose everything and it was heartbreaking.

SE: Yes, we've already begun discussing removing that loss probability. If it's below, at, or just a bit above your crafting level, then the loss probability would be removed. But if it's something far above your crafting level - if you succeed, then you get the experience bonus, but if it is far above your level, having those item lost are a good way...

BG: Agreed. Good.

SE: That's the standard, and we hope to get to that. That's what we're thinking.

BG: I just hated making arrows with my Ranger in FFXI that were 30 points below and blowing up the whole thing. Why am I blowing up my arrows?

SE: [Discussion and laughs among the SE staff] We'll take that into consideration.

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Source.

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Originally Posted by Answa

Hey, guys, let's bitch more about a system that's going to be revamped!



Source.

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Thank you. I will. Its an issue and it needs to be fixed. And by the way... no where on that post you made does it say they plan on making the grind easier. It just states the making of objects will be easier. Consolidated step grind is still grind if you keep the same amount of exp needed..

Reading comprehension FTW.

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Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

Thank you. I will. Its an issue and it needs to be fixed. And by the way... no where on that post you made does it said they plan on making the grind easier. It just states the making of objects will be easier. Consolidated step grind is still grind if you keep the same amount of exp needed..

Reading comprehension FTW.

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>.> grind has several meanings. It "doesn't said" what you want it to say: Free leveling up crafting for everyone! In just an hour, you can be 50!

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Originally Posted by ArcheustheWise

Thank you. I will. Its an issue and it needs to be fixed. And by the way... no where on that post you made does it said they plan on making the grind easier. It just states the making of objects will be easier. Consolidated step grind is still grind if you keep the same amount of exp needed..

Reading comprehension FTW.

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Think how fast you can create materia, now imagine crafting being like that. Faster synths = faster exp. It will become more bareable. Maybe exp will be included in the revamp as well...

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Was FFXI longer?

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Very long not if it was cooking you can get 1-100 in less then 2week buying stuff from NPC and at around 70+ you just farm a few things. If you have money on the other hand noting is really long is it lol.