does SCH gets better aoe heals at higher level?

i am currently a level 40 SCH, i find my single target heal is VERY strong with the fairy helps but my aoe heals is a bit "weak", it only heals for 150 and gives everyone a powerful shield but that powerful shield doesnt do anything when your group constantly getting aoe hit. I did my research with SCH and they said SCH aoe heals are good as WHM but i dont see how is it better? maybe am doing something wrong here? is there some kind of "combo" after i use that aoe shield?

For reference, WHM Medica and AST Helios are both 300 potency. Medica II is 700 and Diurnal Aspected Helios is 600.

At 52 you get Indomidability, an instant AoE heal for 400. Costs an Aetherflow and can only be used once every 30 seconds.
At 58 you get Emergency Tactics, which lets one shield spell every 30 seconds grant extra healing instead of shields. Effectively, this makes Adloquium a 600 potency heal if it doesn't crit, healing double the 300 potency. It's more like 1350 if it crits because it heals triple on top of the crit. As for its AoE application, Succor becomes a 300 potency AoE heal instead of a 150 heal with a 150 shield.


Even without these abilities, Succor is still effectively the same potency as Medica and Helios, and because of the shield it will be better in cases where Medica and Helios would have overhealed.

To answer your question, yes, you'll get indom and emergency tactics.

^^ What these guys said.

Also don't forget that Eos has an AoE regen as early as level 4 in the form of Whispering Dawn, which isn't shabby. Buffed by Rouse, it's surprisingly strong.

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Originally Posted by Jilliebeans

they said SCH aoe heals are good as WHM

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This is false. WHM is the king of AoE healing, scholar is the bottom, but scholar is OP and probably the best healer in the game from a group perspective for other reasons.

You will get better AoE heals at higher levels, but they are cooldowns.

thank you for all the answers, guess am going to have to deal with it for now. ill just try to see if my aoe heals get any better at higher level if not ill switch to either WHM or AST for safer heal.

Also take into account that because you have a fairy, you can single-target heal four party members with just two casts. In some situations this will be more effective than a single AoE heal.

Do NOT forget about Whispering Dawn.

Rouse + Whispering Dawn = super powerful AOE regen.

While we do have emergency tactics and indom, keep in mind that these come with cooldowns that feel like forever when you're in a situations where very heavy aoe damage is being dealt and you're the only healer alive. In Sephirot Ex for example, during the add phase with colors and tank towers in short order, if your co healer is down and out, spamming succor might not be enough and if you've blown through indom and tactics already, welp!

So I can't agree that we are on par with other healers in the aoe department. Far from it, in fact. But for most content, what we have is plenty. And for the rest, you'll have backup. Hopefully. :3

Indominability definitely makes things easier, but Rouse + Whispering Dawn is very powerful. It is your big AoE heal. Learn to use it well.

Virus in itself is kind of an aoe heal. It's prevention or mitigation and it makes things tickle. Sacred soil you'll use less often, but it does shine in places. You also have, as others have mentioned:

Succor
Emergency Tactics Succor
Indomitability
Adloquiem Deployment Tactics (spreading a 300 potency or 600potencyx1.5 potency shield)
Whispering Dawn (if you have to use eos, especially 40 and below since selene doesn't have access to fey wind yet)
Embrace (She's a smart girl. She will bid for your survival while you heal someone else.

Scholars dont really have spamable AoE heals, other than Succor, but the are great at single target heals. Similar to how Astro and WHM need to manage MP to heal the party Scholar has to manage their Fairy and their Aetherflow Stacks. It's just a different management material.

I guess the quick answer is yes, but it is a long trek between succor @35 and indom @52. Indom costs an aetherflow stack, but something to consider is that good healers aren't spamming their AoE heals anyway, and the cast time of indom is also instant.

I wouldn't look at succor as an AoE heal. I would think about it as AoE galvanize, and it's doing a lot more than you think. If you log incoming dmg, you should see some goose eggs there.

Your most powerful AoE heal right now is rouse+whispering dawn. When you put succor and rouse+WD together, it creates some serious dmg mitigation. Instead of filling everyone up quickly like a whm can, only to repeat the process because the dmg is still coming, this tactic with sch buys him/her and fairy time to single target heal everyone back to health since it stops the bars dead in their tracks from depleting further.

An FC mate told me since he knows that I level sch and whm, that in order to heal like a sch, you can't think like a whm.

^^^
that so much, lol. I remember when i had to level WHM again i was so lost, cause i was use to Scholaring. while each healer has a similar tool kit they all function differently. i learned that the best way to play Astro, at least solo, is to stance dance between trash and bosses.

Also keep in mind that scholars are meant to be offhealer. He comes from a dps class. Because of this, he has less healing skills. He's meant to dps most of the time, and only help a bit his co healer with his fairy and shielding. That is the Best way to play it. ( for the 4 Mans contents, fairy is usually enough haha)

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Originally Posted by Eloah

^^^
that so much, lol. I remember when i had to level WHM again i was so lost, cause i was use to Scholaring. while each healer has a similar tool kit they all function differently. i learned that the best way to play Astro, at least solo, is to stance dance between trash and bosses.

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I can relate a bit as I level both, but keep their levels equal. I think some players with a sch mentality might experience some difficulty when playing whm. WHM is supposed to be easier, but the sch fairy seriously lightens your load and allows you to DPS so much in 4-man, but I can't speak for a full pt yet. The cleric dance is easier as sch since you are switching between it much less, assuming your are trying to maximize your DPS as whm.

Was talking about this the other day with my SCH friend, I main WHM. He told than when he's on WHM boots, he feels like he's hampered since he doesn't have the fairy background heal and no shields at all. Shields are a strength for scholar, don't think them as wasted when people take damage. The same damage that eats away the shield is damage you don't have to heal, or the other way thinking, it's just prehealed damage. So do take that into account when thinking how powerful the scholar heals are. Me, on the other hand, in that conversation told that when I'm not on WHM boots, the thing I miss are the big heals, knowing I can top most dmg classes with one cast from nearly empty, some with two. It's mentality difference, but they both are effective in their own way.

I think part of it is that your timing as a SCH is a little off.

WHM and SCH function differently:

WHM is a reactive healer. Damage happens, you heal it.
SCH is a proactive healer. Damage is about to happen, you toss shields.

You need to know the fights well enough to realize there's a big attack coming and to put shields up before it hits. It does no good to shield after the fact. Even trying for the shield while the boss is casting can be too late if it's faster than you are... unless you {Swiftcast} it.

In the AoE case, this is how it plays out for WHM:

Boss health hits 51%.
Boss health hits 50%.
Boss does AoE attack.
Health bars drop.
WHM -> {Medica}

For a SCH, though, the optimal order is different:

Boss health hits 51%.
SCH -> {Adloquium}
Boss health hits 50%.
Boss does AoE attack.
Shields absorbs damage from attack.

You should set a focus on the boss so you can watch the cast bar.

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Originally Posted by Edvardelis

I think part of it is that your timing as a SCH is a little off.

WHM and SCH function differently:

WHM is a reactive healer. Damage happens, you heal it.
SCH is a proactive healer. Damage is about to happen, you toss shields.

You need to know the fights well enough to realize there's a big attack coming and to put shields up before it hits. It does no good to shield after the fact. Even trying for the shield while the boss is casting can be too late if it's faster than you are... unless you {Swiftcast} it.

In the AoE case, this is how it plays out for WHM:

Boss health hits 51%.
Boss health hits 50%.
Boss does AoE attack.
Health bars drop.
WHM -> {Medica}

For a SCH, though, the optimal order is different:

Boss health hits 51%.
SCH -> {Adloquium}
Boss health hits 50%.
Boss does AoE attack.
Shields absorbs damage from attack.

You should set a focus on the boss so you can watch the cast bar.

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Whm: damage is about to happen, precast cure II/Medica so that it goes off just after the attack. Great WHMs master this. This is for higher end/familiar content with scripted mechanics.

SCH: You did this one right in my book. damage is about to happen, cast as soon as you can. Shields take an extra second to absorb damage, so you need to get them off at least a second before the attack lands.

Totally endorse focus target its amazing.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Whm: damage is about to happen, precast cure II/Medica so that it goes off just after the attack. Great WHMs master this. This is for higher end/familiar content with scripted mechanics.

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Can you get knocked out of casting? I suppose that might be a once-in-a-blue-moon case for {Surecast}.

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Originally Posted by Edvardelis

Can you get knocked out of casting? I suppose that might be a once-in-a-blue-moon case for {Surecast}.

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Damage over a certain percentage of your health can interrupt you. You don't have to Surecast a pre-casting Medica/Helios in most cases, but yes, for certain attacks (Primal ultimates at-level) you'll need to Surecast.

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Originally Posted by Edvardelis

Can you get knocked out of casting? I suppose that might be a once-in-a-blue-moon case for {Surecast}.

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Most of the time if you did it right, this is what should happen:
Boss casts high damage aoe
Precast medica
Boss aoe goes off
Medica cast goes off .1 seconds later and goes off even if you're hit with enough to interrupt

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

Most of the time if you did it right, this is what should happen:
Boss casts high damage aoe
Precast medica
Boss aoe goes off
Medica cast goes off .1 seconds later and goes off even if you're hit with enough to interrupt

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That sort of timing is really tight though, and if you're off by even a little bit, the heal will be wasted before the boss attack finishes or you'll be interrupted despite the cast bar reaching 100% (damage-based interruptions don't have to honor that end-bit of cast bar that you can cheese in most cases). Might as well Surecast if you have it, and there aren't so many useful cross class abilities that you're compelled not to take it.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

That sort of timing is really tight though, and if you're off by even a little bit, the heal will be wasted before the boss attack finishes or you'll be interrupted despite the cast bar reaching 100% (damage-based interruptions don't have to honor that end-bit of cast bar that you can cheese in most cases). Might as well Surecast if you have it, and there aren't so many useful cross class abilities that you're compelled not to take it.

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For whm especially :c

#SCHLYFEBESTLYFE

Hmm, trying to time medica to go off after a big attack sounds like trying to be proactive like sch. You risk wasting the spell and the MP. Whm is reactive. That's why they get all their cure bombs. Earlier when I said that in order to heal like a sch, you can't think like a whm; well the opposite is true as well.

Now if later in the game there are instances where two big attack come back to back, I can see a whm trying to be proactive and time the medicas. If such instances exist, I'd hope it's in an 8man where both whm and sch are present.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Hmm, trying to time medica to go off after a big attack sounds like trying to be proactive like sch. You risk wasting the spell and the MP. Whm is reactive. That's why they get all their cure bombs. Earlier when I said that in order to heal like a sch, you can't think like a whm; well the opposite is true as well.

Now if later in the game there are instances where two big attack come back to back, I can see a whm trying to be proactive and time the medicas. If such instances exist, I'd hope it's in an 8man where both whm and sch are present.

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Sephirot EX. Once you get a whm that precasts as I described, you'll always want one. If I see them precasting medica after topping off after jumps, I know I can trust this whm to solo heal the triple aoe themselves. (Roughly 150% of each party members HP in 10 seconds.)

Half party takes damage from jump
Precast medica or cure III
Other half takes damage from jump
Cure III/medica lands
Immediately begin casting Medica
Boss uses aoe causing 50% damage to everyone/medica precast started after this again
Boss uses aoe again and everyone is near full even after 150% damage (from the 2 large aoes and 2 jumps)
Stoneskin tank
Precast cure II
Tank lives through tankbuster.

@Rawrz

O.O Now that sounds like good times! Though I think that still qualifies as reactive healing since the first jump initiates the sequence. Can a knowledgeable sch get succor off prior to first jump to help mitigate some of that incoming damage?

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Originally Posted by Gemina

@Rawrz

O.O Now that sounds like good times! Though I think that still qualifies as reactive healing since the first jump initiates the sequence. Can a knowledgeable sch get succor off prior to first jump to help mitigate some of that incoming damage?

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You could, but any healing done to someone who would survive any of the upcoming mechanics is overhealing. If I succored, so the WHM could Aero III/DPS other ways and they did one less Medica, certainly! Usually though, a main healer will carry the brunt of healing, while the off healer will help when its needed.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

You could, but any healing done to someone who would survive any of the upcoming mechanics is overhealing. If I succored, so the WHM could Aero III/DPS other ways and they did one less Medica, certainly! Usually though, a main healer will carry the brunt of healing, while the off healer will help when its needed.

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Forgive me. But wouldn't mechanics that drop HP by 150% in 10 seconds warrant that help? Praise to all my fellow WHM who solo heal such an extreme instance, but it sounds so unnecessary unless the SCH has fallen. However, I do know SE loves to throw curveballs, forcing extreme play styles in order to survive extreme bosses. I can totally see them tossing out something extreme that requires full on DPS from the secondary healer. I'm nowhere near that content, and just curious! :p

At 45, you get sacred soil, which can also help reduce aoe damage for a short time.
At 50, you get lustrate, which will give you far better burst healing capabilities, or the ability to heal 3 different people with one global cooldown. (adlo on one, fairy on another, and lustrate off gcd to a third).

Sch have many abilities to juggle, learning how and when to use them all effectively is key to being overpowered.

When you need to squeeze as much aoe healing as possible out of your fairy (eos), use fey illumination first, but make sure everyone is in range to receive the buff, which will increase all healing received for 20s. During this time, use adlo/succor/etc. as normal, but with a 20% boost to the amount healed. Before it wears off, hit rouse followed by whispering dawn, for maximum aoe regen. Timed right, this will provide extra healing for almost 40 seconds.

Also, most of the time (90%?) single target healing is more than sufficient, especially in 4man groups.