Tanks not using cooldowns?

I've made the same topic on tank forums, but I thought about bringing it up here to see your thoughts. I've had a nonstop barrage of tanks going through whole dungeons not using any cooldowns and some getting snippy with me when I ask them to do so. He did the sit emote before every pull and was whining. Also had a couple not know what "cooldowns" were and had to explain them how to mitigate.

This is VERY common in expert/60 roulette for me and heavensward content. I usually see cooldowns being used in very early content but thats it. Isn't that part of the fun of being a tank or am I missing something? Please tell me there are other healers paying attention to this and trying to "mitigate" the problem. Especially for newer healers who have to try to pick up the slack while learning on the fly.

Usually I just kindly tell the tanks and move on.

I just DPS in Cleric til they dip below 20% and they will get the hint (or kick me). Just flex your fro' the next time a tank turns on bitch mode.

i don't really care what the other people are doing. as long as he can hold aggro... i will just heal im more i guess >.> i don't expect people playing on high lvl in such easy content. especially when i go random i expect nothing at all...

if the tank is bad i will heal more. if the DD's are bad i will dps more. when both are bad... i don't care if the run takes 40 mins...

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Originally Posted by Tint

i don't really care what the other people are doing. as long as he can hold aggro... i will just heal im more i guess >.> i don't expect people playing on high lvl in such easy content. especially when i go random i expect nothing at all...

if the tank is bad i will heal more. if the DD's are bad i will dps more. when both are bad... i don't care if the run takes 40 mins...

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yeah you can go through most content with tanks not using cooldowns. Its when tanks do big pulls and die for it (then complain to healers as my friend told me yesterday) that just doesn't make sense or on bosses with heavy tank busters. Its just really disappointing to see lots of tanks not actually tanking besides the aggro part. I just find it lazy lol. Its like a healer just using their basic heal the whole time.

@An, yeah I do that sometimes just to see how far I can go for future pulls, but not very often.

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Originally Posted by Tint

i don't really care what the other people are doing. as long as he can hold aggro... i will just heal im more i guess >.> i don't expect people playing on high lvl in such easy content. especially when i go random i expect nothing at all...

if the tank is bad i will heal more. if the DD's are bad i will dps more. when both are bad... i don't care if the run takes 40 mins...

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High level? Using their CDs is playing at a high level?

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Originally Posted by Tint

i don't really care what the other people are doing. as long as he can hold aggro... i will just heal im more i guess >.> i don't expect people playing on high lvl in such easy content. especially when i go random i expect nothing at all...

if the tank is bad i will heal more. if the DD's are bad i will dps more. when both are bad... i don't care if the run takes 40 mins...

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I'm very much the same way. Plus I don't play tank, so I feel I am the last person to tell a tank what he/she should be doing. I also been playing only two months, and perhaps this person might have played less than that? Who knows how long they've been playing, or their mmo experience if swarming around in the early content. The players that want to get better will put the effort in.

I'm getting frustrated with my countdown. It's a 10 second macro. When I'm in DF, and in tank stance, while the other tank is in dps stance, I am constantly getting the OT running in to pull the boss when I'm like 7 or 8 seconds remaining. I then immediately drop my tank stance to let him have it.

But then, what I hate is, he's still not in tank stance, and when someone else takes hate, people are yelling at me. I'll then take it if the OT dies. Otherwise, it's his fault.

10 second pull macros have their place in high end content where everyone needs to be on their toes. Using them in DF stuff is, how should I put it.. Majority of the party would see it as waste of time. Most are not in the DF to optimize their performance. They are there just to get stuff done. As a healer it doesn't much matter to me either way but even I tend to think using those in DF is a bit silly.

I applied a simple rule :
No defensive CD, no healing.. You better be ready to hit your ultimate.

If the tank do a half job, i'm doing worse.

In a normal situation i always my tank sweat by dpsing as much as i can the heal bomb them to top
But if forget to help me with mitigation... I will forget to help him.

(Yesterday i did it to my war friend who said "don't let me die i didn't repair my stuff"... Well i really forgot to heal him and he drop to 1 HP thanks to holmgang XD and I was " oh shit sorry I forgot " > benediction....... He hate me so much because i did it 3 time during the whole expert)

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Originally Posted by Nekotee

If the tank do a half job, i'm doing worse.

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So if the tank sucks you feel entitled to punish the whole group by having 50% of the team being derp?

I would probably report that. The tank could be a beginner, or just bad but trying at least.

But you, you do that on purpose, no doubt.

When you heal, you can know if it's a beginner or not.
Most of the time in high level dungeon they speak up and say they are new
Plus new player are most of the time using more cooldown than they should and it's cool to heal.

In low level dungeon you cannot full DPS and heal as easier as it is in 50/60
Because eof the sync that lower your spellspeed or lock some useful spell

There is no excuse for a tank to not use his cooldown. Which is what he should do as much as i have to use my healing spell to keep him alive.
Plus only 25% of the team will be derp, if i'm not healing i'm dpsing my Ass off... So it won't be a problem the pack will die faster.

Dont get me wrong .Sure there is no excuse for a tank to not use his defensive toolkit. Especially since mitigating is part of the fun.

But is there any excuse for a healer who decides to troll the group on purpose?

The 2 other players did not sign to waste 45 minutes of their time in your personal crusade against bad tanks.

Grow up and help everybody finish the duty faster. Of course you should speak up and let the tank know that he is a problem and say something like:

"tank if you want to be an actual ... tank you will have to mitigate. You are not good at tanking and im compensating for this , because this team doesnt deserve to be penalized twice".

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Originally Posted by Ultear_Milkovich

Grow up and help everybody finish the duty faster. Of course you should speak up and let the tank know that he is a problem and say something like:

"tank if you want to be an actual ... tank you will have to mitigate. You are not good at tanking and im compensating for this , because this team doesnt deserve to be penalized twice".

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Do you really expect them not to diva their answer out and insult you and tell you to heal, which is your job so they can keep slacking off? How naive.

Oh yeah well it's true i sound like a sadist
But most of the time I ask first for CD and if i'm ignored only me and DPS get healing

I won't penalized people by forcing a wipe
No i can act as a tank while being a healer, it's hard but manageable.

I never never lead à group to a wipe without asking nicely to the tank to do his job first.
But ultimately my goal is to hurt the tank to make him understand.
And I can afford to kill him for that.

I'm always up to finish a duty faster, hell yes. I'm pumping as much DPS as i can without killing my mana and my tank.
But less mitigation = more healing = less DPS
And i'm not up to babysit a so tank. If he want to be laay it will be a wake up call by me.

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Originally Posted by Gameplayzero

This is VERY common in expert/60 roulette for me and heavensward content. I usually see cooldowns being used in very early content but thats it. Isn't that part of the fun of being a tank or am I missing something? Please tell me there are other healers paying attention to this and trying to "mitigate" the problem. Especially for newer healers who have to try to pick up the slack while learning on the fly.

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I've seen it quite a lot in synced dungeons where the tanks seems to think that because they're out geared they can just do anything. They don't quite understand that syncing lowers my heal ability, including spell speed. I've been abused by tanks who seem to think that I can cast Physick every second to make up for the lower heal value (& complete lack of 49+ abilities) - it just doesn't happen. They, on the other hand, don't see the value in their own cooldowns & mitigation because "hurr derr, I be i220 lvl60, nuffink can harmz". -_-

OP, We can notice this better when a new patch is released.

The people who play everyday and are used to doing things the way they should be will enter the new dungeons using their skills properly, beat them and then they will move to harder content. You will see them in the expert dungeons once in a while, but they will be in endgame most of the time.

As the time goes by, more people unlock the expert dungeons and do the content undergeared. Nothing wrong with it, you just need some extra effort and everything should be ok.

Then a strange phenomenon happens: random people who doesn't know anything about their jobs and surprisingly managed to get the requirements and people who main other roles start coming to the expert dungeons. Then you have to deal with a bunch of people who barely know what they're doing...
When DPS don't use their CDs you may or may not notice, but if a tank doesn't use his CDs, for you as a healer, it will be huge.

I guess there's no solving for this problem other than try and help people doing their best. And healers are the best people to do it, since they have in their personalities the will to help people... :D

When I see a tank not using their cooldowns I just think this is going to be a run with a ton of healing. But I won't stop healing a tank just because they aren't using cooldowns.

I probably won't even say anything (unless it is a low level dungeon) because I'm sure the tank knows exactly what they are doing.

Unless people start dying, I'll just heal the best I can and get everyone through the dungeon safely.

However, if it's a DPS who continues to pull mobs before the tank, I will tell them to stop. If they don't, then I will stop healing and reviving the DPS who wants to pretend to be a tank. That really grinds my gears.

I do follow you about the DPS
And if he is complaining
I will remain him that raising him cost me less than 3 heal on him

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But... In my own case i will never ever downgrade myself to a healing bot because the tank is LAZY !
I will pull out EVERY single trick and cooldown i have to stance dance DPS/heal
I expect at least for the tank to exploit some cooldown as possible.

If the tank pull 6+ mob and no CD... This is a serious waste of mana to heal him -,-
I'm a heal, not an evolved form of eos

I find it funny how the tension between tanks and healers is still ongoing. That aside, I can heal as well as tank so I know both sides of the argument.
In my opinion, the healer should try to evaluate the situation and instead of punishing a bad tank, should try to adapt to their play style. It sounds as though I babysit the tanks, but I'm the type of person who makes sure that the party is functioning at 100%. After all, the healers' main job is to keep everyone healthy, and to DPS is second.
As a tank, I had to make a new habit of popping a CD for each pull and learned how to manage my CD rotation and mana usage. Tanks are usually the ones at the forefront and if they are new, they may not know the fight as well as the healer/ DPS, who get to observe all mechanics in the back.
Instead of complaining and looking through one perspective, know that people with mainly only tank classes require much experience in the field in order to know the fight inside out.

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Originally Posted by Venaire6

Instead of complaining and looking through one perspective, know that people with mainly only tank classes require much experience in the field in order to know the fight inside out.

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the main issue here is how people are going from lvl 30 (where dark knight rises and tanking for paladin/warrior get serious) to 60 without knowing one of the 4 basics to tanking and "completely" ignoring skills they are unlocking.

1)aggro
2)positioning
3)mitigation
4)awareness

the so called "experience" is not even there sadly. People yell at healers for just spamming the basic cure/overhealing (and they should). The rest of these healers toolkits are being ignored besides maybe the "oh shit" spells. I'm just rather perplexed as to why tanks doing only their aggro combos and not using their toolkits aren't getting the same treatment. Especially in raids where mitigation does matter and with Vul stacks can cause wipes without tank swaps (or even with). Doing typical duty finder strats of pulling big without fully understanding why and with lower gear cause more trouble than good while wasting more mp in the process than necessary. Then afterwards some complaining that it was the healers fault.

I guess most people don't care or are misinformed as long as everyone is alive. Rather lazy imo. And before people ask yes warrior was my first class to both 50 & 60. Its still my secondary while scholar is my main. Not so much a salty post even if it sounds like one lol.

I have almost zero interest/patience with anyone who plays or acts like a prima donna. Would far rather spend more time with someone making some effort and being courteous than other.
Pressing buttons is not hard, and anyone who complains about doing so, that act speaks for itself.

The tanks are stuck with the though that "ohh i need to save it for when a big damage is coming or when my HP is low..." but in dungeons the most of the time the trash pulls are doing more damage than the bosses especially in large pulls.
Also even if they use CDs during pulls most CDs will be ready by the time they get to the boss so it should be that in dungeons the defensive cooldowns should be cycled and in raids and trials they are used strategically.

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Originally Posted by Gameplayzero

Also had a couple not know what "cooldowns" were and had to explain them how to mitigate.

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This is hilariously pathetic for anyone who isn't doing sastasha normal mode.

I've literally never had this happen though, my tanks in DF always use cooldowns.