Fix Server Time to be actual server time

Can server time please be based on the actual server time? As in sent as a packet every x seconds to tell the clients "this is the actual server time".

For those who weren't aware, and from what I can gather, server time is currently calculated client side based on your clock, time zone and possibly location. How do I know this? Well here's one example:

[11:46][FC]<x> tell me server time
[11:46][FC]<y> 11:46
[11:46][FC]<x> why mine doesn*t change
[11:47][FC]<z> what does it shows?
[11:47][FC]<x> 10:46

That's from just now and person x is not the only person. That's the 2nd person in our FC recently with the wrong server time - something that should not be possible.

I have no idea why server time is not 100% reliable and why it was decided it should be based on local calculations but it needs fixing - it is currently not a 100% reliable way of coordinating time even though it should be.

On that subject: last tuesdays maintenance was scheduled to finish at 10GMT and it finished at 9GMT (10BST / GMT+1) - GMT is the same as UTC - it doesn't change!

Here's a great example. All I did was set my time zone ahead two hours and voila!
This photo was taken at 12:16 UTC (13:16 BST) - the PC clock is right, the game ST thinks it's now 3:16 because I put the time zone forward 2 hours, launched the game then put it back.
http://i.imgur.com/jIeCrVT.png


tl;dr: Please make server time universal (lets go with UTC) and send it via packets to the clients so no calculations are done client side.

Click the time at the top which changes from local time to server time. The server times is always the same for everyone. For EU this is GMT including summer time.

As my example shows (first post) server time is not the same for everyone - otherwise I'd have not posted this!

On maintenance completion times: sometimes maintenance just finishes early and it's not a result of DST or lack thereof.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/f...threads/287450

Added a photo to OP to show how easy it is to screw up ST.

This is sometimes true, yes - but often they do get GMT wrong as it will finish exactly one hour early - it used to happen, then it stopped but seems to have started again with the last patch Tuesday.

Ignoring patches - evidence above showing ST is not ST at all.

Japan doesn't have daylight saving time. this is why there's a shift since a few weeks. Nothing to do with patches or updates.

I've noticed this myself at times ST at one point matched my LT(which is CET) so there definitely is an issue somewhere.

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Originally Posted by Krindor

Click the time at the top which changes from local time to server time. The server times is always the same for everyone. For EU this is GMT including summer time.

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It would have been so nice if you'd actually read the post the OP made. He clearly stated that two people, in the same FC, on the same server, showed two different server times. The Server Time is therefore completely unrelated to anything other than the Local Time from the PC (& possibly PS4 if it has an internal clock).

**PLEASE READ WHAT THE ORIGINAL POSTER HAS SAID BEFORE COMMENTING!**

The Server Time changes depending on your OWN computer's time, therefore different people on the SAME server have different Server Times. I can't put it any clearer! 0.o

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

I can't put it any clearer! 0.o

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I'll try:

It seems the server time DISPLAYED by the game is not synced with the actual server and it's not displaying the same time for everybody. Instead it seems it's calculated by the game client on your own computer/console based on what it thinks to be the difference in time zones between your local time and the server time. If the game happens to guess your local time zone wrong (usually by having the wrong dates for when changes in daylight saving times occur) then that calculation is wrong too.

So what op is saying is that instead of using such calculations the game client should constantly listen to what the actual server says is the server time. And I agree. The sync doesn't need to happen every second, but I guess every minute could be good (after all the game clock doesn't display seconds).

Hmmm… That’s interesting.

I can understand why they do it though. It’s less information they have to pass along through with “each” request, while keeping the clock running at “real time”. I mean, why would you “bother” requesting the Server Time (ST) from the server every x seconds, when your system can handle that on it’s own once you know the difference in time zones?

I also don’t really see the need to recalculate the ST when you change your Regional Settings as well as the Time within your OS, while the game is still running. Unless requests being sent to the server contain a Timestamp, which is being recorded 1-on-1 within the database (rather than using the system date/time from the server itself). Otherwise you’d be using up “resources”, which could be used elsewhere within the client.

Granted, retrieving the current server time isn’t a resource hogger to begin with. But, like racing cars, wouldn’t you like it to be as lightweight as possible in order to guarantee the best possible performance? Just retrieve the systems “CultureInfo” once when you initialize the clock and just let the system's internal clock handle the rest?

Although i agree that scheduling events will be rather hard if not every player displays the same ST. But, if everyone has the correct time as well as the correct Timezone set within their Operating system, would the problem even “exist” in the first place?

Since the chat log in the OP mentions a time difference of 1 hour, i’m guessing that the clock from this player’s system clock has yet to adjust to the Daylight Saving Time. That, or his/her system clock hasn’t synced with the “International Atomic Time (TAI)” yet.

There's no need for it to sync with the server so often. Any device connected to the internet is likely to be synced already and as such just grabbing the system time at start up and using that as a base is fine. I think syncing with the server would be a bit overkill as well. But yeah if the calculation isn't working properly then that is a problem. Maybe a sync every hour just for the rare cases it is wrong or screwed up is enough?

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

It would have been so nice if you'd actually read the post the OP made. He clearly stated that two people, in the same FC, on the same server, showed two different server times. The Server Time is therefore completely unrelated to anything other than the Local Time from the PC (& possibly PS4 if it has an internal clock).

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Like any support would do you start with the thinking that the person you're helping is special until it's proven otherwise. You read this post after OP edited his post with proof that the server time was computer side. OP also mentioned that he wanted them to make server time universal which it is. The amount of players were this issue is a problem probably amounts to maybe 0.1% of the player base. If you know what time zone is in you can calculate the ST if it is wrong. The reason it was wrong was as mentioned in a previous post probably due to daylight saving.

For the past three years the server time has -always- been messed up by one hour due to day light savings (in the EST timezone for me.) FFXIV simply does not calculate this for me. Half a year later when daylight savings stops the server time is correct again. I've just accepted to live with it; but a change would be a great quality of life addition.

As someone mentioned above, they need to grab the system CultureInfo, however, I'm guessing since they are Japanese and have no idea about Daylight savings (seriously ... this crap needs removed anyway), they aren't taking it into account. Fortunately, it's a very small annoyance. Any time my FC sets a time for an event they just state their time and timezone and we all work out the math ourselves.

This thread is... semi-accurate. While the ST will artificially change if you alter your PC's current time while logged in, it resets to the actual server time when you log out. People in various time zones do not have different server times. Also, the artificial change does not affect your dailies, weeklies, or time played.

Also, the English maintenance announcements take DST into consideration when applicable.

This is a problem that is acute in our FC. First of, don't confuse GMT with BST. The servers inner workings are in GMT. That doesn't change when the summertime occurs. That's also why the maintenance times they list seem to be a bit off. Even in England, if the maintenance time is scheduled to 8 am GMT, on summer time England is actually in BST, which is British Summer Time. And yes, even some brits I've met don't know this difference and assume their time is GMT always. Essentially, even England (and the rest of that timezone if they follow summer time) is on +1 to GMT during summertime. Same for all other timezones that follow summer time. Finland for example is +2 to GMT, and during summertime, Finland is actually +3 to GMT while they still are just two hours ahead of the rest England since everyone follows summertime. Since the server is in GMT throughout the year, on winter my daily reset is at 5pm (3pm ST that is presented to me, 3pm GMT), but during summer it jumps to 6pm my time (4pm ST that is presented to me, 3pm GMT), all other timed events following the cue. As you might notice, the time in GMT is still the same. That is sensible since any servers inner clocks shouldn't be following any summertime nonsense.

Why is this a problem? Because the ST we are presented is not the server time, which should universally be GMT. Instead it calculates our timezone amount difference to the GMT, which in my case is +2, and applies it throu out the year, without regard that half of the year my current time actually has three hour difference to actual GMT. (Even if I still have only two hour difference to England since they too follow the summertime.) However not all countries across the world follow the summertime, which contains a good amount of my FC mates. Since their local time doesn't change, the difference shows in the presented ST. My ST is always shown to be -2 hours to my local time. Which half of the year is not actual GMT. While theirs ST is -10 hours to the their local throughout the year which also is actual GMT the whole year . There is half a year discrepancy there when those who follow summertime are presented different ST by the game, as those who don't follow it. It's hard to plan anything when we have the situation "your ST is better than my ST" since the actual ingame presented ST is different, even if everyone has set their timezones correctly. That is because the game uses a flawed method. It measures a difference in the time zone amount (essentially location) and applies it to a local time, which due the summer time changes, while location does not.

The solution would be, as someone suggested, the game client asking on logon from the server what the ST is, counting the difference to the local time, and using that difference throughout the session. Assuring that ST is the same for everyone, regardless what their local time might be.

Edit: or even simpler, just have the ST always show GMT for everyone, regardless what their local times show. That way everyone would see exactly same time which is about the only usefull purpose for ST.

Sorry for long post.

Edit: @Wade, I wouldn't pay too much attention to maintenance finish times. It mght very well be they just have had exactly one extra hour planned for stuff that goes wrong, and when everything goes smoothly they can skip that. I can say it started exactly at the time, by GMT as it was marked. The end times are always fluid.

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Originally Posted by Sida

just have the ST always show GMT for everyone, regardless what their local times show

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I'd say it should be set to UTC but that's about it. And yes it should be same globaly. That way there is a common time for all. As it is I tend to be very sceptical of things in ST.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

I'd say it should be set to UTC but that's about it. And yes it should be same globaly. That way there is a common time for all. As it is I tend to be very sceptical of things in ST.

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Good point. I considered editing that in to my post but looking through it, it seems to me that tossing in UTC along the other terms used would make it even more confusing than it already is. Since GMT and UTC for most purposes refer to the same time, even with the differences in their semantics, I'll leave it as it is. I agree with you though. UTC it should be.

I forgot I posted this and came back to posts. Glad to see others have experienced it too and understand the problem.

Overall yes, it's a minor annoyance, but it exists and has caused problems when scheduling events. Every so often in the FC or linkshell people will say "what is ST for you now? 7? right, then it's 8 my time"...it's just silly! The fact we can't rely on ST as a standard for all players is just annoying :p

... if everyone understood GMT then you could just schedule around that, but man it's even harder to get even other people in the same country as you to understand GMT doesn't change. ST would alleviate that - if it were reliable.

It seems kind of silly that they couldn't have the servers send their Unix timestamp every few packets so the client could confirm how it needs to modify local time to properly display server time. That's quite possibly one of the lowest-cost operations that they could do, and is really easy to code.

It appears that the clients are using the computer's timezone to modify the timestamp before rendering; if someone has their timezone set wrong, or they just have a weird datetime set in their system clock, it could throw the rendered time way off.

Interesting factoid about this complaint. It is also the reason why FFXIV gets 90002(I think that is the error, might be 90006) on some peoples systems more often than others. If using Windows internet time sync feature for your local time clock, if your local machine drifts very far from the internet time, and Windows synchronizes it, FFXIV will disconnect you due to the local PC clock change.

I started playing on Ragnarok, and back then, the Server Time made sense to me because it was always GMT. I presumed this was because the server was technically based on EU time. However, when I switched to a NA Data Center, I was surprised to see that ST was still the same as GMT.

I'm really confused on it to be honest. I don't know what it's supposed to even mean.

Edit - I'm living in Texas (CT) for the record.

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Originally Posted by DWolfwood

I'm really confused on it to be honest. I don't know what it's supposed to even mean.

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It's supposed to be the time the server is set too, which is always going to be UTC since the actual location of the server is meaningless. It's auto correcting the server time for DST though and it shouldn't. It should read the same regardless where you are.

I have noticed this but does it really matter what the server time is?

Ah, that's a interesting find.

I wonder why they chose to do it that way now... I see some lag when I query the server for things sometimes....like for instance, summoning retainers. And I'm sure you notice how you can search by part of a word when looking for a crafting recipe but when searching the market board it's exact first word only.

Maybe they are scared of querying the server too much? I remember a review with one of the devs talking about how they accidentally broke the game once by allowing people to query what zone their friend was in too quickly... so they added delays for lots of operations so people couldn't knock the server offline.

Everyone querying the server time at once might cause problems? Maybe not... but I bet they'd err on the side of caution... 2.0 early access/launch was a bit messy with the server crashes. Not as problematic as other game launches though.

Mine's always one hour early from my time here, even when I change from EU servers to NA servers... I don't think NA servers server time is just an hour early from central Europe. I didn't know it differs between people too.

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Originally Posted by ruskie

I'd say it should be set to UTC but that's about it. And yes it should be same globaly. That way there is a common time for all. As it is I tend to be very sceptical of things in ST.

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If SE decide to use 1 time zone for everyone as server time, then it will be JST

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Originally Posted by Felis

If SE decide to use 1 time zone for everyone as server time, then it will be JST

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yup... FFXI times...what a pain in the rear.... u had to wait until Japan midnight for some resets.

atm server time in EU isnt that bad , reset times happens at 4pm or 5pm based around season (daylight saving)

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Originally Posted by Lexia

I have noticed this but does it really matter what the server time is?

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This thread has several reasons why it's beneficial to change. It all boils down to something really simple though: "we do X at Y ST", where X is raid, dungeon, roulettes, FC event, whatever. The point is if you say we do it at, let's say 17:00 ST then everyone can check their clocks and check the game ST and go "OK, that's 6pm for me" or "7pm for me" etc. Right now you simply can't do that, ST is not a constant and therefore is unreliable.


On the topic of server load and issues with queries. Someone mentioned an easy solution to this which I can clarify: append to unix timestamp of the server time to packets from the server. It doesn't have to be every packet and it doesn't really need to be the unix timestamp either. If it were a timestamp it'd be 4 bytes, but we don't really need that for this (it's easier and 100% reliable but this is informative so let's go with another option). Ideally we just need a day of the year and the hour of that day, day of year is 0-365 (1 to 366) and hour is 0-23. That's 14 bits, you'd probably have to round it up to 16 bits and use 2 bytes.

In that situation the client does not ask the server anything, the server merely (ap/pre)pends the servers timestamp (or day + hour) to the packet thus increasing the size by 2 or 4 bytes. Even if this was done at login only it would help, but it could be done once per minute or once per hour or once every x packets...the point is, even for SE and their server infrastructure this is not a big change. If you use the 2 byte approach you get a packet and if it has 2 bytes at the end and the first 2 bits are 10, 01, 11...any really, you know the remaining 14 bits are a day and hour from the servers time (UTC based). Chances are their packets are flagged with a type though so they could just bitshift to say "this is an X packet but it has a timestamp at the end"...so many options with very little overhead.

Yeah, I just noticed how wrong it is when I was reporting something to GM this morning. Shouldn't it be Montreal time?

EDIT: Just ignore all this stuff.

Original post:

Ok, so I can testify that even the LOCAL time can be wrong. Here in Chile we switched out of DST a couple of weeks ago and now what the game displays as my "local" time is 1 hour ahead of the actual time. It used to be ok before we moved out of DST, of course.

So it may be that the times aren't calculated after all. Now my guess is that they're synced from a server after all but said server is unreliable and prone to getting the DST changes wrong. Seems to happen a lot with online time sync services.

The local time is taken from your device. So you need to change the time on your computer or playstation.

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Originally Posted by Naria

The local time is taken from your device. So you need to change the time on your computer or playstation.

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No, it's displaying a different time than the one on my computer. I already made the changes to the time on my computer when the switch happened. I'm very familiar with this situation because every online time sync service on the planet gets the Chilean DST changes wrong. Phones, windows, websites, etc. get the wrong time because said services can't be bothered to keep track of DST changes on all regions and whenever the online services mess it up it's on TV news all over the country here. So we're very familiar with online sync services and how unreliable they can be.

My point is that if even the local time may be different from my system's then the whole situation is even weirder.

Weird, I just changed my computer's timezone and tried my timezone but with DST sync turned off and both times the game's local time reflected my computer's clock, so the client definitely seems to be pulling time from my machine. Not sure what is happening then.

Ok, I think I got it. On my pc changing the time manually doesn't affect the time displayed by the game, but changing the time zone does. It changes the local time and the server time.

Edit: nvm, it's not matching either the actual clock time nor the time zone. And after trying with different time zones... I don't know how it happened, but at some point it started showing the time 2 hours ahead instead of 1 o_O and it's stuck there. No matter to what different time zones I try, it's not changing. I have no idea what's going on.

Edit 2: ok, now I got it for real. The local time in-game doesn't update until you restart the game (and it's still based on the time zone you assign, not your actual clock time) but the "server time" changes as soon as you change your time zone, even while the game is running. So much weird stuff going on. Anyway, there's no reason at all for the server time to change if you change your time zone.

Bump, just missed a raid because of daylight savings and server time not being server time. Please fix.