My first PT wipe :'(

Happened last night inside of Halatali, before even getting to Firemane. I immediately blamed myself and started apologizing to my group, especially since I explained to them that it was my first time there.

My nephew who was in the group with me (has a 60 WAR and 50 PLD) immediately said it was not my fault, and explained that the tank pulled a strong mob along with its adds while we were engaged. He stated we were doomed the moment he pulled that mob. If he was not there, all I would have saw was my failure as a healer, and I still do. I still feel like there was more I could've done. Anything other than dying!

I knew my biggest challenge as a healer would have nothing to do with game mechanics; it was always going to be getting past my own harsh criticism. I wanted to quit after that wipe. I was so upset with myself and my nephew had to calm me down. We did regroup, everyone comforted me, and we destroyed that dungeon on the second go.

I'll get better. I promise!

It's not an unusual sensation—that dread when the tanks HP hits zero or when the party wipes and you KNOW you could've done more. There's a simple solution; practise practise practise! You need to wipe more parties and kill more tanks until your soul goes numb

...no really I'm only half joking here. I'm not suggesting you go out and intentionally kill people, but keep healing and after a while you'll be laughing off your derps. Eventually you realize that it happens no matter how good you are. Simply pressing the wrong button by accident can result in a wipe. Healing in cleric stance is a common tank killer and an ongoing joke amongst the entire healing community. I consider myself a competent healer, but I tend to get pretty reckless when I have a full party of friends and not too long ago there was an FC-wide discussion about me, they were lightheartedly reminiscing about all the times they had died because I was spamming Holy on my White Mage (totally worth it every time, btw). We've also had Healer Limbo competitions, which is a game where you try to see how low you can get the tanks HP without killing him (please note, if the WAR uses holmgang or the DRK uses Living Dead then your score doesn't count.) Obviously I don't recommend doing this stuff with strangers or unwilling sacrifices.

ANYWAYS, rambling aside my point is that a death or wipe isn't necessarily a bad thing. I've been playing consistently since sept '13 and some of my best memories are epic wipes because someone derped. It's just unfortunate when you're with up tight people who can't accept the fact that you're human. Given your panic though, I'd recommend running with friends and FCmates until you've developed your dungeon confidence, because a bad party might scare you off from taking part in instances all together.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Happened last night inside of Halatali, before even getting to Firemane. I immediately blamed myself and started apologizing to my group, especially since I explained to them that it was my first time there.

My nephew who was in the group with me (has a 60 WAR and 50 PLD) immediately said it was not my fault, and explained that the tank pulled a strong mob along with its adds while we were engaged. He stated we were doomed the moment he pulled that mob. If he was not there, all I would have saw was my failure as a healer, and I still do. I still feel like there was more I could've done. Anything other than dying!

I knew my biggest challenge as a healer would have nothing to do with game mechanics; it was always going to be getting past my own harsh criticism. I wanted to quit after that wipe. I was so upset with myself and my nephew had to calm me down. We did regroup, everyone comforted me, and we destroyed that dungeon on the second go.

I'll get better. I promise!

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There will be plenty more times where the party wipes either due to healers not healing enough, tanks pulling too much for their ilvl, or dps not killing things quick enough. It's always SOMEONES fault but as long as you can re-group and move on without too much name calling you'll be just fine :) It sounds like the situation above the Tank simply pulled too much for a low level healer to handle which is on them, so I wouldn't worry about it. You also said you cleared the dungeon easily after that so seems like you know what you're doing for the most part! Keep hope alive :D

@Geekmatt

Thank you! This is only my second MMO, but I am not new to healing. The feeling is the exact opposite to when you save the asses of an entire party when SHTF. I'm ok with a PT wipe when I know I did everything I could to save it. I thought I was healing in cleric stance, but I wasn't. The tank was simply taking too much damage, and my low level butt doesn't have the utility yet to keep him alive in those instances (I don't even have cure II, which would have been all I needed).

I know I have to have a short memory, and it was needed to dry my tears away, recollect, and get my butt back on the saddle. I definitely agree that every good, and even every great healer is going to have a lot of wipes to talk about. My nephew is an FC mate, the other two were DF pickups. He put some blame on himself as well, saying he knew he should have tanked in a dungeon I've never been to, but he also told me that I DO need the experience of things going horribly wrong.

I've rage quit from my own mistakes before and I've been healing in MMOs for about 12 years. About three months ago my keyboard went out during the second boss of Neverreap and we ended up dying. I was so ashamed and humiliated that we died to what is essentially the easiest boss in the game that I left without a word.

We're all quite harsh on ourselves sometimes. Honestly, though, I tend to let the criticism of others wash over me, it's knowing that I didn't do my best that is the worst for me. But what I've learned that, outside of a raid setting or Ex primals at a low iLevel where those mistakes will cost you everything, most people will never notice flubs. Most people don't even care about a wipe in dungeons. Most.

You recognize that you're your own worst enemy here, so that's good.

@Ruri

My nephew almost literally beat it into my head to trust him when he said the tank made a derp. I even recall thinking we were so screwed. But yes, after that we seriously dominated that dungeon without any issue, and they were confidant enough to head on to Toto Rak. They dragged me kicking and screaming into that dungeon talking about the short memory thing, and it turned out the be the most fun I've ever had in a dungeon run thus far! That boss fight is so intense, and perhaps the earlier wipe better prepared me for it.

I think the experience only makes me better. At least I am hoping so :)

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I think the experience only makes me better. At least I am hoping so :)

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That's literally how every MMO is. Make mistakes and learn from them! As long as people are patient you'll be just fine :D Everyone was new at some point.

@CyrilLucifer

Thanks for understanding exactly where I am coming from. I am the same, and shrug my shoulders the moment someone else criticizes me. No one knows more than myself when I screwed up, and if the party wipes, I am almost always going to put all the blame on myself, even on someone else's derp. I think it is good to recognize that, and then learn to lasso it so it doesn't set me back. Hopefully I took a step in the right direction.

I've started healing recently too, although as a Scholar, I always start to put extra attention to what people are doing once a wipe happens, when I notice someone doing something derpy like eating up every AoE there is there isn't much you can do. Being under geared seems to be also a frequent reason. If you see a tank pulls more than one pack of mobs or fray room joins your encounter (one example is one of the spots in Darkmor Darkhold [i'm sure i butchered this name hilariously but let it slide!] where 3 ice elementals spawn and a pack of dragons can come over from side room) you should be prepared to heal the tank exclusively till at least a few mobs fall off. A few times it happened when communication couldn't be established about doing the mechanics of the first boss encounter in Qarn 3 times and vote abandon not going through I just left and ate the penalty myself (stand on a glowing plate after the room-wide AoE applies Doom debuff to remove the debuff).

Admitting your own mistakes is a great trait to have. It means you can better yourself. Just be careful of being too modest. People will throw you under the bus. It's human nature to blame others. And people will be very quick to blame anyone but themselves. It's important to know when it's your fault, but just as important to know when it's not your fault. Don't be so hard on yourself. Wanting to get better is enough.

Once you hit endgame you'll experience a lot more wipes it's not really about if you wipe or not it's what you learn each time you do. Suck it up princess and get back on your feet to try again. If I wanted to quit each time I experienced a wipe or I got yelled at for doing something wrong I would have left a very long time ago.

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Originally Posted by Ciri_Wolf

Admitting your own mistakes is a great trait to have. It means you can better yourself. Just be careful of being too modest. People will throw you under the bus. It's human nature to blame others. And people will be very quick to blame anyone but themselves. It's important to know when it's your fault, but just as important to know when it's not your fault. Don't be so hard on yourself. Wanting to get better is enough.

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That's probably a good lesson to learn. People will blame you for things and they will give you bad advice when they don't know how to play your class. You just need to learn the bad from the good. Lost count how many baddies have died from something stupid that should have been easily avoided and then wrote "...." in chat like a Healer is able to cure their inability to pay attention.

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Originally Posted by MXMoondoggie

Once you hit endgame you'll experience a lot more wipes it's not really about if you wipe or not it's what you learn each time you do. Suck it up princess and get back on your feet to try again. If I wanted to quit each time I experienced a wipe or I got yelled at for doing something wrong I would have left a very long time ago.

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I'm not sure if you read the whole thread, but I did dust myself off, and we took care of Halatali and Toto Rak. Being told about the inevitability of endgame wipes does nothing to encourage me. I don't want to be told to expect them, I want to be told how to prevent them. Read between the lines, and it's easy to see that it's not the party wiping, it's that I could have done more to prevent it. Even if the tank made a derp and screwed us.

This princess, is a little more resilient than you're giving her credit for. I know more wipes are to come, and I will do my best to learn from each one.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I'm not sure if you read the whole thread, but I did dust myself off, and we took care of Halatali and Toto Rak. Being told about the inevitability of endgame wipes does nothing to encourage me. I don't want to be told to expect them, I want to be told how to prevent them. Read between the lines, and it's easy to see that it's not the party wiping, it's that I could have done more to prevent it. Even if the tank made a derp and screwed us.

This princess, is a little more resilient than you're giving her credit for. I know more wipes are to come, and I will do my best to learn from each one.

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Imagine you're flying in large complex airship. It's one person's job to steer the thing, another person's job to keep fuel fed to the engine and yet another's to shoot down the terrible vulture monsters that are trying to take you down. Your job is keeping the fuel going.The person manning the cannons falls asleep and the vulture's tear the ships canopy apart sending you plummeting to the ground. What could you have down to prevent this? Nothing.


Content with multiple players is by nature dependent on every player doing their part. Now in small content with fewer players sometimes you'll be able to patch up mistakes with the tools at your disposal (generally healing things, maybe some CC). However, ultimately even if you execute perfectly and do everything you can there's a chance somebody else won't and it simply will not be within your power to change anything. It's not that "you should expect" wipes is advice that means some solution or methodology exists and is being withheld it is sometimes literally beyond you. If half your DPS dies due to getting knocked out of the arena that's a wipe and there is -nothing- you can do to change it, end of story no ifs, and's or buts.

This isn't to say self improvement is impossible or pointless. It's just that it's important to keep things in perspective. If you can't find a hole in your play and the other people with can't, it may simply be that there is nothing for you correct. That is if every stands around and goes "Yeah, not your fault" it just might not simply be your problem to correct.

EDIT: However if you're looking for specific tips it'd be good to know your class? Profile says ARC so SCH? Or, your post doesn't seem to say. Keep in mind if you're low level your may be limited by your toolkit with more "Fixer" power coming later.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Happened last night inside of Halatali, before even getting to Firemane. I immediately blamed myself and started apologizing to my group, especially since I explained to them that it was my first time there.

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Word of advice from healer to healer.

Get used to this feeling lol. Even when it is not your fault the party will look to blame you because the number one rule of being a healer is you are not a person.

This link should help you realize what you've gotten yourself into.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DxS7eT_ky4

Oh my god you are the most adorable human being on Earth. Let me hug you and make you pancakes forever q-q

Tbh I used to feel the same way when I started tanking and I'd lose hate on IL-capped BLMs on my low level PLD, and then they'd get eaten. Thankfully, in my experience most people in low-level dungeons are very patient because people are still learning as they get new skills with new levels, and once you hit lvl 60 you'll start seeing it the same way: people make mistakes all the time, so there's no point in holding it against them.

I recently accidentally murdered the whole raid in a DF run of Alexander by accidentally cleaving the whole party with an attack that I thought was a soak, but it was a cleave-like tank buster. Thankfully everyone laughed it off. You'll learn to just chuckle at your mistakes and move on, trust me! You'll also get to feel super proud of yourself once you have mastered the mechanics of endgame 8-man raids and become able to solo heal them :D

As I healer I fully understand, I still blame myself for wipes automatically even though they're usually not my fault. You will get used to it, especially tanks who don't realise that different types of healers operate in different ways so can't all deal with the same scale pulls. You'll also get people who never want to wait for you to use your protection spells (like protect, stoneskin & shields) & happily run ahead getting killed. Another favourite is those who, after getting a raise, run straight at the strongest mob/AoE & die instantly.

In most cases you will be blamed for the wipe, even if you are the best healer in the game. For some reason it's standard practice to blame a healer even if players take avoidable damage greater than anyone can heal. I've been blamed for not healing through tank busters & raid wide damage that hits for over 30k in one hit when the tank wasn't paying attention or people didn't follow mechanics. It sucks but your skin does grow thick over time.

@HPDelron

I love metaphors! They're such a good way to explain things to me. Thank you! I think I understand the situation a lot better now. I just... ugh. I wish there was more in my tool kit, but at my level, I will have to be patient. You are so right, and my ability to save a situation is very limited atm. I don't even have whm unlocked yet.

Oh, and to answer the question, I will be leveling both whm and sch. Acn and cnj are both 29, and I just used acn in my profile since it was my starting class. As time passes though, I continuously gravitate towards cnj/whm. I'm just happier when I have a big meat shield between me and angry mobs wanting to make a small meal out of me! But looking at sch's running all over the battlefield doing what they do looks like fun too!

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Originally Posted by Andrea

Word of advice from healer to healer.

Get used to this feeling lol. Even when it is not your fault the party will look to blame you because the number one rule of being a healer is you are not a person.

This link should help you realize what you've gotten yourself into.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DxS7eT_ky4

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OMG I am rolling over! I even think someone on the comment section said, "You can't heal stupid" lol.

Is masochism a great trait to have as a healer? If it is I am well on my way haha! I don't need their help to take all the blame. I'm always the first one to say sorry.

Oh! Before I forget. Moments like this make it all worth it! We are Gods! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB_MAO5yPw8

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

Oh my god you are the most adorable human being on Earth. Let me hug you and make you pancakes forever q-q

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Yay! I love pancakes lol! Especially the blueberry ones with blueberry syrup :p

But thank you for sharing your experiences. I mean I've already laughed at myself wondering why my cures are weak only to see I forgot to get out of cleric, casting on the wrong person, or using Esuna as the effect wears off and it misses lol. But I don't think anyone ever notices these things, only me. But when an HP bar hits zero, it's like "Did our healer DC? AFK?... sup??" I definitely can't wait to have more tools at my disposal. Yup :)

@Culfinrandir

Thanks so much for understanding. I'm not sure if my skin will ever get thick enough, but I will be able to handle it. I seem to have an unlimited capacity for such things. It's part of what lets me know how suited I am to actually play this role. That and it is so difficult for me let someone else take it. I have a lot of trouble playing DPS or Tank as I find myself paying too much attention to what the healer is doing, or not doing. I'm also usually the first to comfort said healer if things go bad.

We have to stick together!

Lol this thread can become something beautiful. Just gonna share my experiences just to show that everyone makes mistakes and there's nothing you can do. So I get in a dungeon with light party in DF. Apparently, their DPS was so slow (with mine combined) that I honestly felt the need to forget about healing all along. Well, after each encounter I started seeing that my heals weren't doing much so I'm like "oh well, something's off...oh well." Derp derp, I was healing in Cleric stance due to tunnel vision trying to DPS. Led to one of the most beautiful wipes ever as I tried to get a benediction off but tank died 0.2 seconds before it went off. They cursed at me from A-Z but I still laughed it off. You said you wanted to learn how to prevent things like that, sometimes...you can't and that's the beauty of healing in an MMO.

Oh goodness. Grow a pair.

Just remember: you'll probably wipe the party eventually... it's an inevitability.
Don't let it make you sad. I've wiped and almost wiped parties while healing, and it's definitely 100% been my fault. There are times when it's absolutely 100% NOT my fault and yet was still blamed for it. At first I got really upset about it; made me feel sick. But honestly, mistakes (or just lack of caring) happen. Apologize and move on. Don't dwell on it.
Of course do your best, but even sometimes your best will wipe the party anyway.

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Originally Posted by Anubis_Nephthys

Oh goodness. Grow a pair.

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Thank you for your input. May it be given all the consideration it is due.

Anyways Gemina, don't dwell on it. Just because you couldn't heal through a situation doesn't mean you are at fault. You have to recognize healers have their limits. As a former guild leader taught me, instances are a group activity, it takes people working together to clear them. If the tank over-pulls it's on them.

Just do your best and learn from your mistakes. Oh, and most importantly, have fun!

The real party wiper.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Cleric_Stance

Will wipe more groups than a Hunter's pet in Wow.

Healing is stressful and sometimes I feel like quitting the game when I feel I've done a poor job. Apparently healers should "just shut and heal" as I was told the other day. Normally I don't say much in duty finder fight said "We just need to stack left or right not run all over the place and that I'm not going to run all over. <<< this was too much. ( chasing a person to stack kept killing me and others) We continue to wipe... disband thank goodness. But when it goes bad I blame myself 1st, watch guide video again, question why I heal in the 1st place. Remember I like to heal and that everyone has off days.

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Originally Posted by Anubis_Nephthys

Oh goodness. Grow a pair.

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How rude :(

I'm sorry I'm not as desensitized as some other healers, but I think it should be ok to feel bad if things don't go as they should. I'm always the last person to point fingers at others, and the first to point them at myself, and I just want everyone to have a good experience if I am a member of their group. It's been a little while now since this has happened, and thanks to some helpful feedback from others, I believe I understand now how to handle such situations a little better in the future.

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Originally Posted by Anienai

The real party wiper.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Cleric_Stance

Will wipe more groups than a Hunter's pet in Wow.

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God so true. It took me a while to get the cleric dance down with my cnj, and I finally got the hang of it until I unlocked scholar lol. I haven't brought my sch into a light party yet, but while soloing I have already caught myself healing while cleric is up. So now I have to get used to it all over again haha!

This ability shall not be the bane of my heal skills. Nopeeee!

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Originally Posted by Amaya-Asha

Apparently healers should "just shut and heal" as I was told the other day. Normally I don't say much in duty finder fight said "We just need to stack left or right not run all over the place and that I'm not going to run all over. <<< this was too much. ( chasing a person to stack kept killing me and others) We continue to wipe... disband thank goodness. But when it goes bad I blame myself 1st, watch guide video again, question why I heal in the 1st place. Remember I like to heal and that everyone has off days.

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Ughhh! I hate that so much. I can't even get people to gather for protect if it drops during a dungeon run, so I have to run into the middle of the fray to cast it. It's like: "People! I literally need 2 seconds to cast this on us! Now looky! Our tank is below 40%. Thanks all! ^^"

"Shut up and heal!"? Why do some meat sacks have to be so rude? None of this stuff deters me away from healing though. I must be a glutton for punishment.

Don't worry about it. Everyone, and I mean everyone, fks up some times (tho in your example it's not actually clear whether it was your fault or not), right through to endgame content.

Sometimes you even have entire runs where you just seem to do everything wrong. The other night I completely missed a mechanic in A6S, died, accepted rez just as an AOE went off, rezzed again, ran straight into a mine and died lol. Sometimes just everything seems to go wrong, I find if I make a bad mistake I often "tilt" and am still thinking about it, making me make another one straight away!

However, I think everyone has these things happen from time to time, and luckily they are not so often. When they do happen, I'll readily admit "sorry guys, just an awful run for me there". When I'm in a party and someone says something similar, I have no problem and just laugh it off, as I said, I have them too sometimes. I actually see it as more of weakness on the people who come out with a string of excuses, blaming anyone or everyone else, RNG, lag, whatever... if you fked up just admit it and move on. I'm much more suspicious of people that come out with excuses that they are actually just a poor player, and will likely wipe us over and over.

It is all a learning process. Most importantly is knowing what you did wrong - was it literally just something you did wrong, eg moved late, didn't see something, or something that needs changing, eg tank pulling more/less, dps focusing one mob in particular or something. If you don't know what went wrong, and just make up something (dam lag again!) nothing is actually learnt and will probably just happen again

Hang in there!

It seems the default in DF is to go for a speed run with big pulls since many people end up just grinding it for tokens and are trying to get through as quickly as possible.

I don't know if this will help, but if you are sociable and can find a nice tank to run dungeons with, it might make things a lot less stressful while you are leveling up. The tank controls the pace, and if he or she is looking out for you properly as a partner, then things tend to go very smoothly.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Ughhh! I hate that so much. I can't even get people to gather for protect if it drops during a dungeon run, so I have to run into the middle of the fray to cast it. It's like: "People! I literally need 2 seconds to cast this on us! Now looky! Our tank is below 40%. Thanks all! ^^"

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I know the feeling. Now I will usually recast Protect if the timer drops below about 10 minutes. This could be at the start or immediately at the end of a boss fight when people are lotting on a chest... or even mid-fight when I can get everyone in range. Trying to do it when people are moving between pulls is just frustrating.

Hi Gemina.

The fact that this wipe makes you feel sorry enough to create a thread like that, makes me believe that you re a good, committed and nice player.

Things happen. You should just analyze what went wrong and then try to fix it for the next times but im sure it wont be a big deal.

Bad players let their party wipe, make laugh of it, then insult everybody (rarely in english...), then ragequit.

You re definitely not one of them.

Wishing you good luck and a lot of nice experiences;

(Note if you re on ps4 you could save the automatic video-record after a wipe and have a look at it after. It helps to understand sometimes).

Yea, everyone makes mistakes, just learn from it just whatever you do dont rage quite. Accept tips from people in the dungeon if it sounds correct.

Thank you everyone! It's so nice to know that there is such a supportive community here. :) Nothing you guys say fall on blind eyes.

@Ultear_Milkovich I really appreciate you believing in me :) I am generally a very caring person, and I see XIV as a community who return the kindness given to them. The spoiled apples are out there for sure, and they make me sad but I guess you have to roll with the punches sometimes. Fortunately, I haven't had anyone rage quit on me yet, but I am still a very new player.

Btw thanks for the tip! I am on PS4, and I will definitely keep that in mind the next time.

Swiftcast

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Swiftcast

Best CC ability a healer can get. Dead non cd using tank? Swiftcast+Raise. Group runs off w/o protect? Swiftcast+ Protect. Buff before boss? Swiftcast+ stoneskin.

Hey, at least you haven't gotten assumptive or stubborn like me. When leveling AST in Dusk Vigil I had a (synced) 60 Warrior who wanted to pull as many mobs as possible without even touching Defiance, to maximize his dps and speed up the run for his friends. And here I'm under the assumption that I'll at least get to cast one Gravity before healing. He was dead before Cleric Stance could drop, and yet I couldn't break the habit of hitting the damn button (healing after enmity acquisition during the gather) as the mobs were about to reach full gather. By the second death (just before the last boss) the tank took every opportunity to question my cognitive capacity, and I pretty well felt just as bad as I was accused of.

I try to lighten up the mood whenever a wipe happens.

Example 1 : Well we took 2 down before we died at least. I noticed it's easier to heal you guys if I pretend I'm trying to murder all of you with my feeling infused cures.

Example 2 after dying by skeletons : They beat my face in with their wee little hands :0 Party member : They got a bone to pick with you lol. We proceeded to make puns the rest of the dungeon.

It's better to try and stay positive over getting upset with yourself or depressed about it :)

And remember a wipe isn't always the healers fault dumb dps pulling in more mobs that will immediately come after you or silly nub tanks biting off way more than they can chew are common examples.

Oh also making a good /p chat macro for raise can also lighten the mood up be it a threat, encouragement or just something witty and fun.

Oops! and move on.

In DF it really just means no precious commendations won't get thrown my way. :D