Duty Roulette: Leveling

Can we please take the Trials out of Leveling? Such as Ifrit storyline mode, Garuda, Titan, etc. It is leveling for a reason. We need dungeons only, not primal fights. They are Trials, not dungeons. And we all expect dungeons from leveling roulette. I understand it could help people that are new to the game. But that is what the Trials Roulette is for. These primal fights should be removed from Leveling. It would be highly appreciated if this was done.

And since we have Mentor Roulette, these Trials are also there too. We don't need Leveling to have Trials.

I like having those on my leveling roulette. Is an easy 200k+ exp for 10mins or less.

For those that are actually trying to level, having Trials in this Roulette is utter nonsense. dungeon EXP from targets/bosses + Roueltte bonus is better. Not going in doing hardly nothing at all for a mere roulette bonus is not good enough. and 200k+? No. That's incorrect. It scales with your level. I just tried to do Leveling and got Ifrit storyline mode, and I exited. Because that would be a waste of a roulette for me. At level 39. I don't get 200k+. :P If it isn't a dungeon, it defeats the purpose of 'leveling'.

Its for those who need to get it for their story quest, also imo it should be in leveling.

Well the 200k+ was with a lvl50+. Even so is easy a 1/4 or 1/6 of the exp bar needed for leveling. That a lot for less than 10mins. Also the leveling roulette you do it for the bonus. Additional exp, like u said from dungeon mobs, you will always get it regarless of roulette or not.

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Originally Posted by VraeliaValkyria

For those that are actually trying to level, having Trials in this Roulette is utter nonsense. dungeon EXP from targets/bosses + Roueltte bonus is better. Not going in doing hardly nothing at all for a mere roulette bonus is not good enough. and 200k+? No. That's incorrect. It scales with your level. I just tried to do Leveling and got Ifrit storyline mode, and I exited. Because that would be a waste of a roulette for me. At level 39. I don't get 200k+. :P If it isn't a dungeon, it defeats the purpose of 'leveling'.

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Your post makes no sense in terms of efficient leveling. You sat in a queue, then took a 30 minute penalty, so you can sit in a queue again just to run a 20-30 minute dungeon. Say you queued as dps, that's a 30 minute penalty, 10 minute queue (being generous here) plus a 20 minute dungeon run, 60 minutes total time to get exp from a dungeon plus DR bonus. In that time, you could have completed Ifrit Story in 5-6 minutes, queue for your highest 3 dungeons (26 minutes, using a 20 minute queue), run the dungeon and finish it in 25 minutes for a total of 51 minutes. That gives you pretty much the same amount of exp in a shorter amount of time. That was using liberal times for your re-queue and conservative times for if you just stayed in the trial in the first place.

This post actually raises a question for me that i dont know the answer to personally, and would love someone who does to chime in. Its been awhile since i was leveling any combat classes, and ive never really done this roulette. So is the bonus you get just a lump sum at the end of the dungeon, or does it additionally give an incremental bonus as you go? For instance, if i que as a level 55 and get lets say cutters cry do the monsters killed along the way give more exp then they would if i qued it straight(which i would only do at level 55 to help a friend)? If the roulette adds bonus exp per kill along with a lump sum at the end, then the OP has a point. But if the only bonus is a percentage based on your level at the end, then its much better to clear the quick anything, then re-que for something else after.

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Originally Posted by Frizze

This post actually raises a question for me that i dont know the answer to personally, and would love someone who does to chime in. Its been awhile since i was leveling any combat classes, and ive never really done this roulette. So is the bonus you get just a lump sum at the end of the dungeon, or does it additionally give an incremental bonus as you go? For instance, if i que as a level 55 and get lets say cutters cry do the monsters killed along the way give more exp then they would if i qued it straight(which i would only do at level 55 to help a friend)? If the roulette adds bonus exp per kill along with a lump sum at the end, then the OP has a point. But if the only bonus is a percentage based on your level at the end, then its much better to clear the quick anything, then re-que for something else after.

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Usually lower lvl dungeon mobs give less exp that the higher ones but is not much difference. The bonus from roulette is at the end, dont matter is you did the full run or just joined at the end of the run.

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Originally Posted by Frizze

This post actually raises a question for me that i dont know the answer to personally, and would love someone who does to chime in. Its been awhile since i was leveling any combat classes, and ive never really done this roulette. So is the bonus you get just a lump sum at the end of the dungeon, or does it additionally give an incremental bonus as you go? For instance, if i que as a level 55 and get lets say cutters cry do the monsters killed along the way give more exp then they would if i qued it straight(which i would only do at level 55 to help a friend)? If the roulette adds bonus exp per kill along with a lump sum at the end, then the OP has a point. But if the only bonus is a percentage based on your level at the end, then its much better to clear the quick anything, then re-que for something else after.

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As Myrhn mentioned, you do not get any extra exp while killing monsters in the dungeon for it being a roulette. You can however get level based bonuses. One example would be if your did DR Leveling and wound up in Sastasha. You could equip the Friendship Circlet and Brand New Ring for some exp bonuses for being under level 20 and 30 respectively. Ultimately, the whole point of DR:Leveling is to help speed up queue times for all sub 50 dungeons and the 51-59 dungeons. Part of this does include the 3 story primals (Ifrit, Garuda, Titan) which are all 4 man content. If you wanted to solely level through DR's and dungeons, then the most efficient method for most level ranges would be to run your daily roulette and then queue for your 2 highest dungeons that you can run.

The bonus is dependant on the dungeon. Ifrit for example gives like 75k+75k bonus. Satasha gives 110k+110k bonues.
But unless it's a trial you're pretty much guaranteed a level and a half as the exp scales inversely with level. The higher the level you are the more exp you get.
Further the amount of experience you need to level is synced to the level you are synced to. So if you get synced to level 20, you only need the exp from level 20-21 to go up a level instead of 50-51 or whatever.

Pretty sure you're the only person of this opinion OP. Mostly because you're wrong.

But... trials are my favorite part of leveling roulette.

Did leveling roulette yesterday with 4 FC members. I think our lowest was lvl47 or something around that, and we got Ifrit storymode. Easy 600K XP (i was lvl59), and we all were happy. I think it should stay as it is.

Frizze,

Ignore what others had said. If you get a Dungeon, you are getting more EXP then the lump sum of queing in the roulette. It is actually better for you to get a dungeon rather than a trial. A trial that should not belong in a LEVELING roulette. Leveling roulette requires a dungeon to actually LEVEL in. It makes no sense whatever to put a TRIAL outside of the TRIAL Roulette. Most people do not get that or are too ignorant to understand this simple logic. Individual targets+roulette gain = win. Not just the roulette lump sum at the end. I would rather do an entire dungeon in a LEVELING roulette than do a Trial just to get a lump sum.

The Trial Roulette are for the lvl 50 ones, which before HW was released gave no exp. All the trials within the Leveling roulette, however, are part of the normal leveling process for newbies, and thus put into the Leveling Roulette. Note that it doesn't say Dungeon Leveling.

Honestly the only reason not to like it is if you are trying to get the Dungeon challenge log done, and even then atmost it'll take you ten minutes to do and (unless you get REAL bad luck) atleast one newbie gets to go on to the next part of their story.

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Originally Posted by VraeliaValkyria

For those that are actually trying to level, having Trials in this Roulette is utter nonsense. dungeon EXP from targets/bosses + Roueltte bonus is better. Not going in doing hardly nothing at all for a mere roulette bonus is not good enough. and 200k+? No. That's incorrect. It scales with your level. I just tried to do Leveling and got Ifrit storyline mode, and I exited. Because that would be a waste of a roulette for me. At level 39. I don't get 200k+. :P If it isn't a dungeon, it defeats the purpose of 'leveling'.

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The bonus is the same, so it would be better to do the trial and then a dungeon, which you don't mind to do (likely the highest one).

Why should I quit Ifrit, eat a 30 min penalty (and waste other ppls time as well), join roulette again and getting something like Tam-Tara (or a trial again ;)), when i can just do Ifrit, get the bonus and q for Brayflox, Quarn, etc. afterwards?

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Originally Posted by VraeliaValkyria

Frizze,

Ignore what others had said. If you get a Dungeon, you are getting more EXP then the lump sum of queing in the roulette. It is actually better for you to get a dungeon rather than a trial. A trial that should not belong in a LEVELING roulette. Leveling roulette requires a dungeon to actually LEVEL in. It makes no sense whatever to put a TRIAL outside of the TRIAL Roulette. Most people do not get that or are too ignorant to understand this simple logic. Individual targets+roulette gain = win. Not just the roulette lump sum at the end. I would rather do an entire dungeon in a LEVELING roulette than do a Trial just to get a lump sum.

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But you'd get more exp doing a trial, then queuing for your highest dungeon. You're not counting the time saved that is better spent doing something other than a low level dungeon.

In the end the purpose of this roulette was to help people finish the dungeons they need and to encourage players past that point to do it again so others can finish. If it was removed it'd make completing the main story more difficult for new players and unless you are incredibly selfish I don't think anyone really wants that. There are dungeons people don't like to get from it but you just get on with it. The levelling roulette was not designed with just people levelling other classes from their main in mind it was designed for new players to get a boost in DF by increasing the pool of players available to do levelling side quest and story mode dungeons.

Do you even math bro? Here let me spell it out since you're simple. Leveling roulette can queue you into any dungeon or trial, including Satasha, for instance. You get the most exp from running the highest level dungeon you can run. Let's say that takes 30 minutes, we won't even count queue times. To compensate for level difference there is a fairly large exp bonus on running a lower level instance however individual kill exp does not change, just the end bonus. So, let's say Satasha takes 20 minutes and ifrit normal mode takes 5. The individual kill exp for a lvl 59 character in satasha adds up to a negligible, I'd go so far as to say invisible amount. The roulette bonus may fill 20% of your bar though, whereas the ifrit normal filled 18% (due to it being slightly higher level). 18% for 5 minutes is better than 20% for 25 minutes. Do you get it now?

For me personally if I could change anything in the roulette it would factor player levels a bit more.

Getting basic Sastasha for example when the lowest guy in the group is 50+ Would be nice if the dungeon was a little more appropriate to the lowest person in the group.

As for mini trials. I've found the bonuses from them seem to be in line with the bonuses from equivalent dungeons. The bonus from iftit story is about the same as the bonus from halitali or toto rak I think.

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Originally Posted by VraeliaValkyria

Frizze,

Ignore what others had said. If you get a Dungeon, you are getting more EXP then the lump sum of queing in the roulette. It is actually better for you to get a dungeon rather than a trial. <snip> Most people do not get that or are too ignorant to understand this simple logic. Individual targets+roulette gain = win. Not just the roulette lump sum at the end. <snip>.

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You are basing your statement off of personal preference. The XP you gain in a leveling dungeon from killing the monsters isn't significantly different than what you could make via other means in the time that you save. Of course, this is moot since it seems that the quicker grind is to queue for your daily leveling roulette, then queue for your daily trial roulette, then queue for your daily main scenario roulette, then queue for your daily guildhest. An hour well spent (with a tank queue, anyway)

I actually hate getting the primals in Leveling roulette as well. Reason is precisely queue times. If I queue to leveling dungeon I expect I get the bonus+dungeon experience. While in extreme case I might get something like sastasha in most case sI get a dungeon that might be 2-4 dungeons lower than my highest at the moment. So usually from leveling roulette I get ast least as much experience than running the highest one, is not a bit more. Say I spend 30 minutes in queue, if I get the primal instead, the amount of queuetime+game time for the amount of experience it gives (just bonus) is worse than if I got a dungeon. In short, getting primal from leveling roulette is wasted queue time.

Those story trials are 4 man trials. If you remove them from leveling where are you going to put them?? You can't put them in the trials roulette because those are 8man trials same goes with the MSQ roulette. They need to be in leveling otherwise new players and people leveling alts would have a very difficult time completing the MSQ bc not many people are going to be queing for 4man Ifrit, Titan and Garuda.

I loooooove getting trials cus 90% of the time in my experience it's easy peasy experience.

The only time getting a leveling dungeon is beneficial is when you queue specifically for the highest dungeon available to your level. Otherwise trial gives the same amount if not better than the dungeon. You do roulettes for the bonus. If you got sastasha at level 38 the exp you get would be abysmal, so you want to do it as quickly as possible to get the roulette bonus which gives far more exp.

The whole point behind "leveling dungeon" is that the dungeon is during a period of where you are leveling and not at a level cap gearing up.

That's why there is level 50 roulette since it is the cap f

For level ARR. apologize for two posts but can't edit from phone.

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Originally Posted by Jamillion

Do you even math bro? SNIP
To compensate for level difference there is a fairly large exp bonus on running a lower level instance however individual kill exp does not change, just the end bonus. So, let's say Satasha takes 20 minutes and ifrit normal mode takes 5. The individual kill exp for a lvl 59 character in satasha adds up to a negligible, I'd go so far as to say invisible amount. The roulette bonus may fill 20% of your bar though, whereas the ifrit normal filled 18% (due to it being slightly higher level). 18% for 5 minutes is better than 20% for 25 minutes. Do you get it now?

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This is incorrect. Your experience gets synced to the level you get synced to. So running the dungeon synced to level 20 would give you the same % of a level as if you were level 20.
Your experience and level get unsynced when the dungeon is over. So the experience gained is multiplied. 150k experience at level 20 is equivalent to 600k+ at level 50.

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

This is incorrect. Your experience gets synced to the level you get synced to. So running the dungeon synced to level 20 would give you the same % of a level as if you were level 20.
Your experience and level get unsynced when the dungeon is over. So the experience gained is multiplied. 150k experience at level 20 is equivalent to 600k+ at level 50.

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That isn't how level sync works at all. Your required exp to level remains the same. If you are level 59 and you get level synced to 20, you still require 3,888,000 exp to obtain level 60, not 56,600 (exp required for 21). If what you think was true, people would only run Sastasha to level as you can pretty much get a full level every time you run it.

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

This is incorrect. Your experience gets synced to the level you get synced to. So running the dungeon synced to level 20 would give you the same % of a level as if you were level 20.
Your experience and level get unsynced when the dungeon is over. So the experience gained is multiplied. 150k experience at level 20 is equivalent to 600k+ at level 50.

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How to say this...

Nope. You're wrong.

I suspect that the reason why this won't happen is much more practical than what we are discussing.

The story modes for those primals are 4 man fights; while the trials are all 8 man. There would probably be changes required to the code to create exception cases if the change were to be made, which isn't great. (This also explains why Praetorium and Castrum have their own queue. They are really levelling dungeons at this point; but they are the only 8 man ones we have so far.)

Add to that player expectation when queuing for a Trial roulette. When I queue for one, I'm expecting a 5-10 minute fight. While that might be fine for Ifrit; Garuda storymode is objectively more difficult than Hard mode. The iLvl for hard mode is such that people don't even bother with most of her mechanics. The level sync on storymode, however, makes it so that failing her mechanics will still wipe you.

What I'm trying to say is that if I queue for Levelling Roulette; I've planned to have 30-40 minutes available to see it to its end. So if Garuda goes poorly, I'm more likely to stay than if I had planned a 5-10 minute thing at the end of my night. I suspect this was part of the reason why people would drop out of Steps of Faith (even post-nerf, if I remember correctly) or even Chrysalis.

For the producer, you're going to want to balance risk and business value when deciding what your team works on. This feature would seem like fairly high risk and, based on most of the feedback in this thread so far; low business value. I, personally, wouldn't prioritize it either if I were them.

You're not think about this the right way at all. Efficient leveling is NOT exp/instance. The correct way to judge efficiency is exp/time spent. Getting a trial in leveling roulette and then running a leveling appropriate dungeon is FAR more efficient than getting stuck in sastasha for 45 minutes with new players and getting negligible amounts of xp from mobs and roughly the same roulette bonus at the end.

Iftrit normal in leveling roulette is a godsend and something to celebrate.

I got Ifrit SM four times in a row one day when I was levelling (& not bothered about the daily bonus) & I loved it. Why? It was because every fight helped at least one new person get through what has become a block in the story due to selfish people dropping when it appears.

To me, one of the best parts of FFXIV is helping & meeting people so being stressed over getting a trial in levelling roulette is just not a thing for me. I remember when I started seeing people charging for raises in the open world & the second I gained the raise ability on ACN I made it my duty to raise anyone I could who needed it & stop those who charged. It's incredibly rare to see anyone asking for gil to raise someone.

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

I got Ifrit SM four times in a row one day when I was levelling (& not bothered about the daily bonus) & I loved it. Why? It was because every fight helped at least one new person get through what has become a block in the story due to selfish people dropping when it appears.

To me, one of the best parts of FFXIV is helping & meeting people so being stressed over getting a trial in levelling roulette is just not a thing for me. I remember when I started seeing people charging for raises in the open world & the second I gained the raise ability on ACN I made it my duty to raise anyone I could who needed it & stop those who charged. It's incredibly rare to see anyone asking for gil to raise someone.

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I'd expect that raise charge shenanigans in FF11, but here? Raising is such a trivial thing, shouldn't even be a charge for it. Heck, someone gave me gil as thanks for raising them when I didn't charge them.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

I'd expect that raise charge shenanigans in FF11, but here? Raising is such a trivial thing, shouldn't even be a charge for it. Heck, someone gave me gil as thanks for raising them when I didn't charge them.

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Unfortunately, it was quite rife in Coerthas in ARR when people were FATE levelling. It's almost gone now, from what I've seen.

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Originally Posted by Cnidarian

Your post makes no sense in terms of efficient leveling. You sat in a queue, then took a 30 minute penalty, so you can sit in a queue again just to run a 20-30 minute dungeon. Say you queued as dps, that's a 30 minute penalty, 10 minute queue (being generous here) plus a 20 minute dungeon run, 60 minutes total time to get exp from a dungeon plus DR bonus. In that time, you could have completed Ifrit Story in 5-6 minutes, queue for your highest 3 dungeons (26 minutes, using a 20 minute queue), run the dungeon and finish it in 25 minutes for a total of 51 minutes. That gives you pretty much the same amount of exp in a shorter amount of time. That was using liberal times for your re-queue and conservative times for if you just stayed in the trial in the first place.

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that logic only works if leveling roulette bonus XP could get given multiple times. its once a day, so you should use it to get the biggest bonus you can.

Ifrit story is the best. 5 minutes and I can move on and do other things. It's not about xp/roulette. it's xp/time. I'm not in a rush to get to max level. the less time i spend on roulettes the better.