Okay, so my static and I are trying to progess through A5S, and we are barely beating hummelfaust(sometimes getting a clear from a dot killing him after the 4th panzer). And looking through the numbers it seems my dps is on the low side, ranging between 860-920 dps.
Now i am ilvl 219 and i know i need to replace my antiquated ravagers boots. I also think i am doing my rotation right. Though there are a few things that i am still a little weary on.
First of al, do you save all the buffs in order to get out another amped up triple cleave, or should i pop some of the smaller ones when i can such as internal release?
Also should i be keeping fracture up 100% of the time, or is there times where it is a dps loss.
To be honest though any and all helpful of advice would be greatly appreciated, i dont like.being the person to hold back my raid team..and i am always greatful for help.
Warrior Assitance.
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03-09-2016, 09:38 PMTheValiantOneWarrior Assitance.
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03-09-2016, 10:01 PMLaunched
Pull your Faust in Deliverance, tell your group to kill the other one first so you don't have to worry about enmity. Depending on the rest of your group's DPS, you could be able to use Decimate during Berserk instead of Fell Cleave to do some extra damage to the other Faust. Use Berserk and IR on Faust, they'll be usable again on Hummelfaust when it's almost time for the other tank to Provoke off you. When you're tanking Hummel, you shouldn't need Defiance if you have Vengeance, Thrill and Convalescence available. If your healers are up for it, you can Holmgang the stacking debuff and let them do some extra DPS. Use Fracture if you'll get the full duration out of it.
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03-11-2016, 07:02 AMcold52
well you could always do what our group did and have the paladin solo tank hummelfaust. :v (no seriously we did).
but just so you know theres no point in burning the fist two down faster as hummelfaust time till enrage starts the moment hes target-able (my group tested that) so its best for your group to save all the cool-downs they can (mind you hell still spawn and wipe you if you dont have those adds down in time so yea..) -
03-11-2016, 10:07 AMMeridaQ
Save beserk for Hummel have the other tank pick him up go nuts and then kill him! Usually tank swap about 30%
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03-11-2016, 05:36 PMBrian_
So we have our PLD solo tank it and we solo heal it. Our SCH just DPSes and lets selene do the support healing.
I parse for about 1150 on a dummy with no food, no pots, no party buff.
I infuriate shortly before the pull and pop internal release shortly after. The reasoning for this that the double fausts have a ~60 second timer on them so if you infuriate and IR at the times I do, you will have both ready for when Hummel lands.
I also try to prime a maim or eye for when Hummel lands. That way, you can entire your triple FC in sync with BL and TA. From there it's just a matter of basic WAR DPS. -
03-11-2016, 06:21 PMSynestraSorry for slight offtopic but seeing you are rolling with NiN i must ask how much easier Shadewalker makes tanking when in DPS stance? Mainly asking as we lost one of our DPS before we could even enter savage so recruiting a NiN could be a option due Shadewalker and TA(we have awesome DRG so BL is covered).Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian_
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03-11-2016, 08:51 PMKitfoxI'm curious what kind of numbers your PLD is doing by main tanking. We have the WAR pull Hummel with regular Unchained Berserk into Deliverance for hate lead, and swap mid way when CDs run low. Party also kills Faust on the WAR first, so I can pull in, and never drop, Sword Oath and avoid losing a GCD. I figured that was the best way to maintain high hate lead and lose as little GCDs as possible while maintaining max damage from both tanks. The last Faust kill, we had WAR around 896 and me PLD about 995, both of us being around i216 (sephi weapons).Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian_
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03-13-2016, 06:42 AMBrian_
To the two questions,
Shadewalker is mainly for the pull. It's not going to make extended DPS stance tanking any more viable for you. All it really does is allow you to switch to SwO slightly earlier. To be honest, while I hear a lot of talk here about enmity issues, the only times I've felt it is when I actually try to pull or pick up an add in DPS stance. And, I think it's generally more an issue with proper ability priming than stance. I'm still able to ride the opening enmity through basically the entire fight even as a PLD.
As for what numbers our group is getting -- I'm pulling 1150~1200 on Faust and Hummel without potting. Our PLD is around 750~800. But, our PLD is also really not big on pushing his DPS and is relatively new to the min-maxing it requires. I have a feeling that if I were playing PLD, I could probably pull higher. I can't compare our parses in Savage since I don't do Savage on PLD but for Sephirot EX, he's usually a little over 700 DPS while I'm a shade under 900.
So even while those number might seem higher than yours, I actually don't think we do it the best way for raid DPS. I should be pulling Hummel with Unchained while the PLD DPSes, but like I said earlier, our PLD is not really big on DPSing so I don't think he'd gain as much DPS as I would lose if we made that change. Also, we'd probably have some issues on the swap because he'd have to use RoH to hold enmity over me. -
03-13-2016, 12:19 PMSarcaticaDid over 1k while MT-ing, my faust add is always killed first too. You can tank in sword oath at the start without having shadewalker and aggro ripped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitfox
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03-13-2016, 12:25 PMSarcaticaBut aren't you able to use 2 berserks in 2:30? Why not cram in more instead of saving?Quote:
Originally Posted by MeridaQ
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03-13-2016, 01:35 PMaleph_nullPossibly to sync with your group's buffs (DRG NIN MCH etc).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcatica
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03-13-2016, 06:11 PMSpookyGhost
It's also largely pointless to use CDs on the Fausts unless you need to, better to align them with TA + BL + Foes/whatever as well as your pot.
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03-13-2016, 06:25 PMSarcaticaQuote:
Originally Posted by SpookyGhost
Examined all the logs from the highest DPS WARs, 2 Berserks are better for sure. You rather miss that guaranteed +50% damage for 30secs that can be used TWICE in a fight? Those high DPS results in less total time in general. Lining up Berserks with whatever other buffs is quite pointless IMO. Unless if someone breaks it down how 1 Berserk can trounce 2, I won't easily believe opinions/possibilities that aren't backed up by hard maths.Quote:
Originally Posted by aleph_null
Note: 900 DPS vs 1.2-1.3k DPS. I wonder which one is better... -
03-13-2016, 06:31 PMSpookyGhost
Obviously you'll end up with overall higher DPS by using 2 Berserks, the point is that the 2 sets are different DPS checks - the first is easy to meet, the latter... well, to some it isn't. So obviously saving your buffs for that and treating it as the start of the fight instead of the 2 Fausts makes it easier to meet the check. If you can't meet the initial 2x Faust check you need to look into what buffs you can afford to use, while saving the more powerful ones for Hummel. If you just want to parse high by the end, then yeah, double Berserk go 4 it.
Also for maximum fluff you can Berserk double Decimate by doing a pre-Infuriate + RI pull. ( ' - '
e: A good way to look at it is this: imagine there's an add that spawns before the boss spawns that you have to deal with. He is on a seperate DPS check timer than the boss and has a pretty lenient DPS check himself, not really requiring any buffs. So, say you blow Berserk on him - now what essentially happens is when the boss drops, you don't have Berserk, and you have to use it later when it's back up - not aligning with TA, BL, your pot, etc. You are essentially going into a boss fight and not using Berserk in your opener. Does that sound like a good idea? -
03-13-2016, 06:50 PMaleph_null
If your team has no problem at all clearing the big faust dps check, by all means go ahead and use berserk twice for higher parse numbers. Otherwise better line up cds to clear the big faust.
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03-13-2016, 10:22 PMKitfoxI was trying this out on a dummy with some friends, but I just quite frankly don't see how it's possible. Do Shield Swipe procs really make such a difference? Because I was barely able to keep up with the DPS, losing hate several times, even when totally dropping RA and just using RoH while trying to get GB in. With Shadewalker it's doable but without? Just seems very inefficient compared to WAR pulling in tank stance for hate lead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcatica
For Fausts specifically it might be possible if DPS spread their damage on both targets, but in general Sword pulling seems very impractical. -
03-14-2016, 12:16 PMBrian_The point is if you use Berserk in your opener on double Fausts, you will not be able to use it on Hummel until after the TA / BL / stacked buff window. So, you will have less overall DPS on Hummel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcatica
For some groups, that's a make or break difference. Even if your group has no issues with Hummel, all you are doing is padding your DPS by double Berserking. It's like using Decimate instead of FC on A1S Faust. You're just being a jack ass to look better on fflogs. -
03-14-2016, 01:04 PMSarcaticaYou can check my log and see if there is any difference at all. The DPS were creeping up real quick but as long as you drop RA for RoH, there shouldn't be a problem provided if you don't save FoF for Hummelfaust specifically.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitfox
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03-14-2016, 01:16 PMSarcaticaSo poor and low DPS gets the pass? This is why most people can't pass Hummelfaust. Perhaps going back to check how to do their rotation is too hard? Sick of people defending poor DPS in any way possible. There is 100% no problem with the design, and there are a lot of flaws when DPS aspiring to raid does less than 1.3k DPS in Hummelfaust (yeah, standing still and dps is so hard bro). Period. Defend those players all you want, but you bring DPS classes because you need their DPS, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian_
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03-14-2016, 05:52 PMSpookyGhostI think you're either misunderstanding, or genuinely trolling. On the off chance it's the former:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcatica
2x Faust = ezpz DPS check, very low HP on both, very forgiving enrage timer
Hummel = Not the hardest DPS check in the world, but significantly tighter than the Fausts
Both are on seperate enrage timers, if you beat 2x Faust at the last second before their enrage you'll still have the exact same amount of time on Hummel you would have if you beat 2x Fausts in say 10 seconds. So burning the Fausts asap is pointless, it doesn't actually do anything except make your numbers go up. If your group can comfortably meet the DPS check while you pad your numbers, then go for it, but you're literally contributing less by doing that. Your numbers go up, that's all. Literally, as Brian said, you are being the guy who Decimates on A1S Faust. -
03-14-2016, 05:56 PMBrian_
It's not about giving low DPS a pass. It's about empathy and understanding that not every group -- especially mid-core groups -- is going to have 8 people who are not only on the same page at the same time, but on a level that's within a small minority of the player-base. And, within that context, it often comes down to not what you can do but what you should do.
When you are in a hard-core progression static with multiple people capable of parsing in the 90th+ percentile, it's easy for you to make sweeping statements about how DPS needs to git gud.
The reality is a lot of mid-core groups struggle with Hummel. They are mid-core for a reason. If it was as easy as telling them to git gud, we wouldn't have seen such abysmal Gordias clear rates. If mid-core groups told mediocre DPS to screw off, they would not be mid-core.
Again, the goal of double faust / Hummel is to kill Hummel with your group. It's not to record an fflogs parse.