Quality of Life Ammunition MCH Change

In my opinion, I find it annoying that Machinists have to constantly keep quick reloading before boss fights so they do not lose their ammo stacks. The idea that bullets have a duration makes no sense to me other than to irritate the player.

I think it would be a great quality of life change if the duration for Machinists ammunition buff were removed. It would prevent players from not losing their ammo stacks accidently before a pull because they forgot to quick reload.

What do you think? I am curious to know other peoples opinions on this matter.

I agree, I'm not a huge fan of MCH tbh and that is one of the reasons, I think they have time limits to give the appearance that it's a quick moving ranged class but in reality it just seems like a terrible flaw. The bullets have to be spent in order anyway, if smn had to use stacks regardless of the skill they used AND lost stacks after a few seconds, no one would play it.

I don't think it makes as much of an impact as Jamillion is saying, as generally you will use them well before 30 seconds while in combat. It literally is only something for pre-pull, so I agree with the OP. Removing the timer will not impact the actual gameplay of the job at all, it's merely more convenient for before the fight begins.

I would fully agree if quick reload didn't reset timer. I like the way mch plays. Quick reload is there and if you forgot who fault is that? Like I'm not trying to down play skills but if one you're holding a bullet for more the 30 seconds......or not stacking the bullets before a fight ummm then you're chosing to suffer beginning damage. By the time you get to a boss fight if you over loaded 5 bullets someone took the wrong turn. There's never been a situation where all 5 bullets are loaded and I forgot to reload. Maybe prep before fight but meh just push a button every 15 seconds. The fact quick reload is 15 seconds and resets the 30 seconds makes this argument moot.

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Originally Posted by RecklessLion

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Have you ever played arcanist? Yeah Aetherflow. Y'know the drawing of Aether for you to mend, and use special skills with, has an infinite duration. You can't stack it, therefore you can't draw any more aether even when you try to.

Anyways, it's true that what OP said makes no sense. It's ammunition so it should work like Aetherflow, because waiting on aetherflow cooldown to come back is essentially the same as waiting for a machinist to stock-up ammo or wait on Reload but with a finite 30s to pull.

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Originally Posted by MajinkenSouga

What do you think? I am curious to know other peoples opinions on this matter.

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I think it's dumb, and it's just another hole that SE dug themselves in.

I'll support the OP. Granted, the way ammo was implemented has been a bone I've had to pick with MCH since it was introduced, and removing the duration makes sense and is a step in the right direction.

Most things in this game have short durations to be extra annoying and to have you rush while in combat or rush to get into combat. Is it much more lenient than greased lightning? Yes. So on that hand, I think it's fine. Does it make sense for ammunition to disappear? No. So on that hand, I don't like the current system.

Reload has been originally designed as a 30 second duration, 30 second cooldown skill, and going into a fight with 5 ammo pre-loaded doesn't seem to be the intended use initially. Compared to aetherflow for SMN that's only used for select abilities, ammo is a straight potency buff for every weaponskill and has a much more reoccuring use than aetherflow does. On the other end (lolPvP), a MCH would be going into a fight with 11 ammounition in tow, which is not only a straight potency increase but instant casts without having to spend the oGCd for the initial reload.

Ammunition in general could have been better designed; having it be a straight potency buff and consumed on any weaponskill isn't very innovative toward the job, and quick reload becomes another oGCD rather than a job mechanic because of it. I'm at the point that I don't care enough for it to be changed as even a QoL thing because 5-ammo openers tend to throw my cooldowns out of sync for most boss fights, and it's objectively a buff that I don't really we really need in lolPvP in the form of even more burst damage.

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Originally Posted by Jamillion

if smn had to use stacks regardless of the skill they used AND lost stacks after a few seconds, no one would play it.

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You mean something like aethertrail? Though it's not a fair comparison because of how they acquire aethertrial, but it's nonetheless a mechanic that they need to pay attention to utilize properly. To SMNs right now, aetherflow is not something you use up immediately for dps and it's not necessarily something you refresh on cooldown without a thought, but something that you need to time your usage with if you want to make the most of out of it. Most SMNs can attest to having 2flow/2trail as literally the worst feeling in the world (next to dying with aetherflow on cooldown) That's not the case with ammo because the later does not have a very big role into the job in regards to the timing of it's usage.

I do agree that it would be better if Ammo Stacks didn't expire.....

However, I wish people would stop comparing Ammo to Aetherflow stacks. They don't function the same. Summoner has its most powerful abilities completely locked behind Aetherflow - you can't use them without consuming stacks.

Ammo acts more akin to a buff. A Machinist has full access to all of its abilities with or without ammo - the ammo just augments their performance and allows for higher damage output. Ammo is managed more as a buff, whereas Aetherflow is actually managed more as a consumable resource.

Again, I don't disagree that keeping Ammo would be a nice QoL change. I just keep seeing this "Aetherflow" argument.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Ammunition in general could have been better designed; having it be a straight potency buff and consumed on any weaponskill isn't very innovative toward the job, and quick reload becomes another oGCD rather than a job mechanic because of it.

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While I also complain about ammo's implementation, I can think of only two applications that would work in the current game. One would be designing MCH's shots around having additional effects that have to be manually tapped into by loading ammo before a shot (basically, what we know as Dark Arts). Have ammo replenish over time without you having to press anything, with maybe procs that increase the speed at which you recover ammo or a proc that generates 1 ammo. I'd probably make each ammo unit recover within 15 seconds of being spent, with the max you can have save up being 5.

The other application would involve designing MCH around normal-power abilities that consume no ammo and strong abilities that consume ammo. Have ammo also be 5 units that replenish over time and forcing the MCH to pace their ammo use, with maybe a cooldown that replenishes all 5 units but on something like a 2-3 minute cooldown.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

While I also complain about ammo's implementation, I can think of only two applications ...

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They could just keep the ammo procs, and make ammunition be used for something ASIDE from the procs itself. As it stands now, MCH is lacking things like self heals (hot shot with ammo can do just that) and abilties that add depth to the job (gauss round and ricochet for example, you practically use these off cooldown). They showcased some very interesting ideas in regards to multiple attachments and ammunition use, and what we have now is the fat with the meat trimmed.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

They could just keep the ammo procs, and make ammunition be used for something ASIDE from the procs itself. As it stands now, MCH is lacking things like self heals (hot shot with ammo can do just that) and abilties that add depth to the job (gauss round and ricochet for example, you practically use these off cooldown). They showcased some very interesting ideas in regards to multiple attachments and ammunition use, and what we have now is the fat with the meat trimmed.

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I was mulling on the attachments and one thing I'd suggest would be removing Granado Shot and Spread Shot and replace them with a Spreader Module that reduced damage dealt by a percentage but increased TP cost of all shots and made the direct damage part of the attacks AoE (this is so that you would in theory affect multiple enemies with Lead Shot without wasting GCDs). Something else was making your turret combine with your firearm for a set duration and using that as a DPS cooldown.

Assuming we were to make cast times baseline for MCH, Gauss Barrel could then become an attachment that elongates cast times (from 1.5s to 2.5s) but increases damage from shots and allows you to move while casting.

I'm personally having trouble visualizing the utility that indefinitely persisting ammo would give us. I mean, unless I'm missing something, the only benefit this will have is enabling more convenient 5-ammo openers at the start of a fight.

5-ammo openers themselves have their own problems because they throw off your reload timing - which means that you're going to pay that back eventually later on when Wildfire comes up and you find that Reload is 5-10 seconds late. All in all it seems like a QoL change for a very niche functionality.

Personally I'm happy that we don't have any complicated pre-pull 'must-haves' to worry about like Huton or Aetherflow that other jobs have, it means that after we wipe I can tab out and surf the net until I hear that pull countdown going off :p

I'm glad to see that some people feel the same way that ammo having a timer is a bit stupid. I hope the developers address this matter soon.

It is kind of dumb to have a timer but at the same time I never had a problem with it. It isnt something that you definitely need up all the time before a pull

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Originally Posted by Myon88

I'm personally having trouble visualizing the utility that indefinitely persisting ammo would give us. I mean, unless I'm missing something, the only benefit this will have is enabling more convenient 5-ammo openers at the start of a fight.

5-ammo openers themselves have their own problems because they throw off your reload timing - which means that you're going to pay that back eventually later on when Wildfire comes up and you find that Reload is 5-10 seconds late. All in all it seems like a QoL change for a very niche functionality.

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That's just it, it's a quality of life issue. Right now during CD refreshing time or whatever, we should be refreshing ammo every 30s so that you can pull when the missing player gets back. Making it indefinite just lets us count to 2 or 5 and just relax.

Leveling MCH now and this is one of the things that drives me nuts. There is zero reason for ammo to have a duration because of quick reload... the duration does nothing but be annoying.

Aethrrflow stacks don't have a timer. I can get behind ammo not decaying.

The logic isn't sound guys. Gun owners IRL have to reload during regular gun maintenance due to ammo disappearing.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

The logic isn't sound guys. Gun owners IRL have to reload during regular gun maintenance due to ammo disappearing.

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Dem darn illegal lalafell stealing me ammo

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Originally Posted by MajinkenSouga

The idea that bullets have a duration makes no sense to me other than to irritate the player.

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I believe it's the supercharged bullets using electrical aspected aether is what is losing charge, causing it to have a duration.
Not the physical bullet themselves, of which you have an infinite amount somehow. This is actually the more perplexing issue.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I believe it's the supercharged bullets using electrical aspected aether is what is losing charge, causing it to have a duration.
Not the physical bullet themselves, of which you have an infinite amount somehow. This is actually the more perplexing issue.

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If there was any logic to be had, this would probably be it.