Astro's redraw defying logic

Before the last patch the astrologian would just grab another card from their deck, now they grab another card from their deck that they don't currently have in their hands. This implies am Astrologian only has 6 cards. But this doesn't make sense as some cards have a higher grab rate then others, I always saw it that Astros had more Spires in their deck than Arrows but with this new rework that is really thrown in to the bin and the astros cards contradict theirselves

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Originally Posted by Redmerv

Before the last patch the astrologian would just grab another card from their deck, now they grab another card from their deck that they don't currently have in their hands. This implies am Astrologian only has 6 cards. But this doesn't make sense as some cards have a higher grab rate then others, I always saw it that Astros had more Spires in their deck than Arrows but with this new rework that is really thrown in to the bin and the astros cards contradict theirselves

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It's the result of people complaining so much about re-drawing the card over and over. I personally didn't mind it. But SE seemed to have choosen functionality/instant gratification over immersion.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

It's the result of people complaining so much about re-drawing the card over and over. I personally didn't mind it. But SE seemed to have choosen functionality/instant gratification over immersion.

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The change improved a lot of things. When it was shuffle you had a chance that RNG would completely invalidate the skill. At least as redraw, the skill works as intended 100% of the time. Also, they changed the name of it to keep the immersion... you don't shuffle the card into the deck anymore, you keep the card, redraw, then shuffle both cards back into the deck.

it improved the reliability, that's for sure. Doesn't mean immersion got improved. Look at your starglobe; it contains more than 6 cards. Whether you re-draw, mulligan, or shuffle your cards with a deck that contains duplicates, there's a chance to draw the same card - Chances of may differ depending on the action.

The change is both good and bad. Good because SE is listening to the players and actually catered to them by changing an ability for sake of (slightly) improved reliability. It's also bad as it doesn't make sense as your deck contains duplicates of the same type. Inb4 any arguments: If you spread a card, you shouldn't be able to draw that card ever again till you use the card spread. But you do.

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Originally Posted by Redmerv

This implies am Astrologian only has 6 cards. But this doesn't make sense as some cards have a higher grab rate then others, I always saw it that Astros had more Spires in their deck than Arrows

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Actually, ASTs have more than 6 cards because you can draw the same card you have in your spread.
This thing that they have more cards of one type... In certain dungeons I did draw 70% of spires. In other dungeons I drew a lot more boles than any other cards... It's a branch of the Murphy's Law that says you pay more attention to things that go wrong more than things that go smooth...

What about royal road when you literally burn a card? Do you have a problem when that card is returned to your deck? Or why do you never run out of cards? Do you merely show a card to someone instead of giving it to them? Do the stars grant you more cards in the heat of battle? Are cards really physical manifestations of the stars power? In that case, maybe pulling a certain cards freezes the stars aetheric tendency and prevents you from conjuring the duplicate by redrawing? Just a thought

Sorry, but I don't care about your immersion when we are talking about effects of abilities and spells from classes. Balance and QoL come first and Shuffle was one of the least satisfying abilities of this game. Drawing the same card again meant that the ability you used was completely worthless, not because of mismanagement but because of RNG.

Think of it like this: You aren't redrawing just a card, you're redrawing someone's fate and there are only five other "fates" to draw from. The card it just a metaphor. >w>

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Think of it like this: You aren't redrawing just a card, you're redrawing someone's fate and there are only five other "fates" to draw from. The card it just a metaphor. >w>

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Exactly. Think of the cards not as a physical object but as a visual representation of astromancy's magicks.

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Originally Posted by BloodPact

Exactly. Think of the cards not as a physical object but as a visual representation of astromancy's magicks.

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While that's a good way to look at it, and I probably will be doing that, it still feels kinda off since the chance of getting each fate is not the same.

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Originally Posted by Redmerv

While that's a good way to look at it, and I probably will be doing that, it still feels kinda off since the chance of getting each fate is not the same.

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Think of it like this: the Meta-physical drawing of a new fate determines the card that is drawn, not the other way around. The cards are just a visual aid and when fate was "re-drawn", that card was "fated" to be drawn.

Eh. Class fixes (or attempts to fix) > lore/immersion/graphics.

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Originally Posted by Priya

Eh. Class fixes (or attempts to fix) > lore/immersion/graphics.

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I agree in a certain level. People talk a lot about reworking Celestial Opposition to make it better and all. I think that changing it to some other ability wich doesn't match the whole "time-stop" thing wouldn't be so cool, so the lore would be more important than skill fix...

If you actually look at the cards an Astro has, they have two of each card (12 total) when they pull out their weapon.

Previously it was possible to spread a card, draw the same card, and shuffle into that exact same card (which would imply 3 of a card), so that's already lore breaking.

Or the fact that when you spread, the number of cards revolving your weapon doesn't reduce.

Also cards have always had the same grab rate. People have confirmation bias whenever they're like "I drew only Spires" and disregard that time they only drew Arrow or Balance.

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Originally Posted by Ashelia_Ferron

Also cards have always had the same grab rate. People have confirmation bias whenever they're like "I drew only Spires" and disregard that time they only drew Arrow or Balance.

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This. The selective memory has bloated the issue greater than it actually is. Sure, it's annoying if you draw cards in a row when you don't want them. But you won't complain if you draw only good cards.

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Originally Posted by Redmerv

While that's a good way to look at it, and I probably will be doing that, it still feels kinda off since the chance of getting each fate is not the same.

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people want to be able to pick a specific card which is awful, so i'll settle for this.

Before heavensward when there still was an idea of a bad status card there were plans to make chance higher on some cards. didn't know this wasn't implemented

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Originally Posted by Redmerv

Before heavensward when there still was an idea of a bad status card there were plans to make chance higher on some cards. didn't know this wasn't implemented

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There was never a bad card, just a bad translation of abilities.

We're fighting dragons and legendary beings, while wielding tremendous magic and skills and having our fate guided by an omniscient god.
Yeah, I can suspend my disbelief long enough to not be bothered by redrawing my card.

If you have a AoE royal road ready and draw an Ewer, then shuffle into another Ewer, it waa at best worthless and at,worst detrimental to your group because it could seriously mess up a blm rotation.

If I redraw I'm telling the game I don't need this card at this moment. Getting the same card is a waste of an ability and a gcd.

If you have a AoE royal road ready and draw an Ewer, then shuffle into another Ewer, it waa at best worthless and at,worst detrimental to your group because it could seriously mess up a blm rotation.

If I redraw I'm telling the game I don't need this card at this moment. Getting the same card is a waste of an ability and a gcd.

What annoys me with the cards is that when AST wields their weapon, e card pockets in their cardholder are still full. By all logic the cards should be spinning around the globe at that time. More so since the side happens to have exactly 6 pockets on each side, which counts up to those 12 cards. Would I want the weapon graphics fixed, yes.

Skill fix, however... as some here have said the shuffle needed to become redraw for it to be justified as skill with cooldown. And about the card amount equality, now I know who stole all of my spires, because my deck has just ewers in it. That is to say, the inequality in card chances is just perceived stacking of random occurrences.

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

The change is both good and bad. Good because SE is listening to the players and actually catered to them by changing an ability for sake of (slightly) improved reliability.

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Agreed, and I won't argue that the ability being changed to Redraw fits the lore exactly, but to be fair, many class/job mechanics and logic don't fit the lore. The game has to make concessions for playability at times.

But I will argue that the improvement is more than slight. AST's main benefit is that it can use buffs on the party, but as it stood, literally more than half my draws would be Ewer/Spire before 3.2 launched. I would literally spend entire boss fights doing nothing but redrawing the same cards over and over again, eventually settling for using Spear or Arrow simply because I wanted to use something during the run.

And I no longer find myself saving a held Balance with Expanded Royal Road simply because I know I likely won't get it again before the next boss.

Now, I find myself getting a good mix of all the cards and being able to do things such as cast Balance on all my party members and then cast a held Bole on my tank. This is especially effective during large mob pulls when we only have ranged DPS that likely won't get hit by anything. Before 3.2, I wouldn't have dared try such a thing.

And, of course, there's always the argument that Shuffle invalidated both a cooldown (or two, if you're unfortunate) and somewhat invalidated the point of AST. I don't mind that AST uses RNG - I actually like it - but I did not appreciate how poorly implemented it was.

I now actually feel as if I'm strategizing and working with RNG rather than being a slave to it.

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Originally Posted by Amiaze

I now actually feel as if I'm strategizing and working with RNG rather than being a slave to it.

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This. Now you can play the cards to your advantage. It also makes Royal road and spread far more powerful than they where. Going entire runs with nothing but spire/ewer was not all that fun imo.