seph x , healing questoins

hey guys, just wondering what other healers think, he is my observations.

My main is SCH, I have tried healing seph x as both SCH and WHM with similar results upto phase3 blue puddles. we used SCH+WHM combo, and selen

However, when i go in my static, we go with SCH+AST Combo. and we seem to lack some healing. I have been reluctant to use EOS phase 1, but when we used her, we did better ( although can't be 100% sure cause we had other issues ).

So i am wondering, for other healers have u tried SCH - AST Combo, and did u notice any issues?

Also I noticed if i join a PF with an ast , once he see i am SCH he switches to WHM , it starts to raise some doupts for me.

I honestly don't know how ASTs manage to do this fight. I can see it being possible of course, but really difficult for them in comparison to white mage.

It's not too hard for AST.

Phase 1:
* You can use CU right before you guys have to move for Purple/Green bombs.
* Always save swiftcast for the helios to do AoE healing while getting into position.

Phase 2:
* Disable reduces the damage from big add explosions. You can Synastry the first set of adds to allow the sch to focus on DPSing.
* You can CU when the second big add spawns (assuming you have a SCH) to allow him to jump into cleric without being worried.

Phase 3:
* You can use CU on the spot where you bait yesod in the blue puddle to trivialize that section of Phase 3. (Everyone should have HoT from CU)
* You can save CU for the push back from Seph and extend it with CO to ease stress on the healing.
* Save Lightspeed for the first yesod around storm of winds. You can dodge the Yesod while doing AoE healing. I like using Synastry for this section of the fight too.

I've only healed phase 1 as AST with a SCH partner but we didn't have any problem. Pre pull with an Adlo deployed for the first 2 AoE damage and after that AST can take everything, you just need to know when he's casting the AoEs. SCH can help with Indomitability once or twice and that's it. Lightspeed is a good tool to deal with the damage after the Green and Purple circles.

Ast is fine on sephirot ex... It depends on ur partner... If ur with whm... U end up aoe healing majority of the fight shielding vs tank buster + pillars and dpsing when u got the physical or magic buff

If ur with scholar the role is reverse if ur sch not mitigating the double jumps and shielding for purple marks + tank buster then the SCH is the issue not the ast

Iv been in soo many groups and is 7/10 totems for wep... But my co healers let me down or dps dies consently or OT dont pick up his pillar

Ast is the strongest on this fight due to near infinite mp and most likely can solo heal it in nocturnal sect if party makes no mistakes

Healers can only dps when the magiv/physical buffs are on ... After this ur both pure healing

I have always had a 100% Selene policy in all end-game raids, but for the first time ever, I find Eos much more practical for Phase 1 & 2. During the (seemingly endless) transition into final phase there's plenty of time to hard-cast Selene.

I've never had a problem with any other healer. My personal favorite is honestly SCHx2. Everyone who isn't a healer seems to think that's not a possible combination, but all of my very best teams have been SCHx2 or AST in Noct. Getting a team to let you do this on the other hand is a bigger struggle than actually doing it in the fight itself. The additional defense (which is why bother using Eos at all) helps immensely. Continued Succor, Adlo/Deploy rotation, Bubble & Indom. Double SCH doesn't get the credit it deserves. Anyway, all combinations are equally viable.

I'd say the only caveat which goes for all healing in any new raid - is learn the mechanics. The less people die, the more MP to go around, the more time you have to prep for big hits, the less "oh snap" buttons you have to spam. Trust your co-healer, and if you don't then have a discussion about what you can change or do differently when things aren't going right. I don't have AST to 60 yet so I can't speak for it, but I know it can hold its own in Seph in Noct or Dia mode.

I have a question about Sephirot as well. It's been suggested to me that I stack some VIT for this fight. Currently in a mix of Eso, Lore, Midas NM and Eikon I'm sitting at about 14100 HP out of party, ilvl 216. I've talked to another healer who claims to be around 14k+ HP, stacked no VIT and has Sephirot so on farm that she's nearly done collecting weapons.

Anyone else have input on the healer VIT/no VIT for this fight? I've yet to enter

I've healed this as every job in every possible combination.

There's nothing wrong with using Eos as a SCH, especially with an AST who's already providing DPS buffs to the party. Enrage should absolutely not be a concern and WD is a good safety net and has good value during this, like during the Pillar of Mercy combo near the end or to cover any mess-ups during Ratzon/Ain.

You should Succor your party before the double raidwide AOE in phase 1 and should probably use Indomitability while repositioning after the double jump if you're going to get its full effect. If you fall behind for one reason or another, Emergency Tactics + Succor should do the trick. My rule of thumb is I'd rather use Swiftcast to get my party back to safe health than on Resurrection, so take advantage of it. There are ample windows to DPS for both healers once you know when you need to give a little push to your co-healer and when your party is going to be safe. Trust HoTs, they do most of the healing.

AST can fully take advantage of their CDs in this fight and I think it syncs really well with them.

Synastry can be used to buff AH. Disable + Virus is extremely strong, not to mention Disable is the only thing that affects Darkness damage when the Cochmas blow up. Dignity is available for every buster IIRC. CU can be used before the Ratzon / Ain combo and then again during add phase and before Pillar of Mercy. You can alternate between Lightspeed and Swiftcast to quickly recover after the double jump and to quickly heal while being bounced around.

MP is of absolutely no concern (we were joking that I was usually well over 10k MP at the end of the add phase while our SCH seemed to struggle a bit more regardless of my job) and hate is actually more easily managed than on WHM thanks to the lower generation over time. Every AST CD has incredible value in this fight.

At the end of the day I'm actually doing similar HPS and DPS as AST vs WHM with a SCH partner. I think I like WHM just a bit more because Assize and Cure III trivialize a bunch of mechanics and lower the panic levels and Divine Seal is amazing, but AST is perfectly serviceable. It's an easy fight to heal regardless of the job you're on once you get the timings down so I'd suggest working on that first and foremost. Good luck!

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Originally Posted by GeekMatt

I have a question about Sephirot as well. It's been suggested to me that I stack some VIT for this fight. Currently in a mix of Eso, Lore, Midas NM and Eikon I'm sitting at about 14100 HP out of party, ilvl 216. I've talked to another healer who claims to be around 14k+ HP, stacked no VIT and has Sephirot so on farm that she's nearly done collecting weapons.

Anyone else have input on the healer VIT/no VIT for this fight? I've yet to enter

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You'll be absolutely fine with your current HP value. There's nothing in there that will kill you outright as long as you don't mess up too much.

I concur with Kerrigen on all points.

The only thing that should trouble your HP is Earthshaker mechanic and that is lessened with distance from Sephirot at the time damage is calculated. As long as you are moving as far from him as physically possible it should not hit you for over 12,000. That move is the biggest direct hit a Healer should have to suffer. It can hit upwards of 16,000 if you're standing too close. I've never stood closer than that! Haha. >_>

Ideally it should only be hitting for (I want to say) 8000 or so. Nothing normal HP can't withstand.

By the way, pre-positioning for Earth Shaker instead of reacting to it really helps lessen the blow (and once again reduces panic levels). It's easy to move out of the way if you see you're not targeted. Regen or Aspected Benefic takes care of healing that before Da'at happens.

I think this is the biggest piece of advice for healers in general: try to pre-position for the next mechanic and anticipate the damage. Everything is completely predictable so once you're familiar with his rotation you have a lot if time to do what you need to.

Very helpful, ty. The number Id heard suggested was 16k+ which after reading the above tells me they probably didn't realize distance was a factor on this mechanic or was just expecting to mess up handling it correctly.

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Originally Posted by starLivitation

hey guys, just wondering what other healers think, he is my observations.

My main is SCH, I have tried healing seph x as both SCH and WHM with similar results upto phase3 blue puddles. we used SCH+WHM combo, and selen

However, when i go in my static, we go with SCH+AST Combo. and we seem to lack some healing. I have been reluctant to use EOS phase 1, but when we used her, we did better ( although can't be 100% sure cause we had other issues ).

So i am wondering, for other healers have u tried SCH - AST Combo, and did u notice any issues?

Also I noticed if i join a PF with an ast , once he see i am SCH he switches to WHM , it starts to raise some doupts for me.

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It's not too different for scholars if the Astrologians know what they're doing. All I can tell you based on the information you've provided is that the astrologian simply has to:
http://i.imgur.com/DxHKHUp.png

Heya!
I'm the AST in my group's AST/SCH healer combo. And it isn't difficult or hard on healing at all. It's the same as before AST was in the game, know the times of the damage, plan ahead, and precast. The fight is incredibly scripted and so it's easy to learn when the damage is. But proper shielding and good use of indom really helps a lot. plan your use of synastry, lightspeed, CU, disable, and remeber; you don't always need to immediately get people to full hp all the time super fast. During the double aoe's, a succor, A. helios, and a precasted helios is all you need then you can do your dots and prepare for the tank buster. I feel like some healers think they need everyone topped off 100% of the time, that's where over healing comes in and wasted gcd/mp. heal smart, not excessively.

For the add phase after Seph's limit break, make sure the ast has synastry and lightspeed ready. probably the most healing intensive part of the fight right there. but it shouldn't be too hard... (if only my group would just stop killing themselves to avoidable mechanics before this phase... it would be easier to heal through....). Anyways.... no it's not hard with AST in the group. They just need to know what they're doing, just like a whm and sch should know what they're doing

I found this fight to be super easy to heal as AST. Lightspeed and Synastry are fantastic in there.

Make sure your DPS know not to go full throttle on adds.

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Originally Posted by Yhisa

Ast is the strongest on this fight due to near infinite mp and most likely can solo heal it in nocturnal sect if party makes no mistakes

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That...is really hard to believe. Especially since AST has the worst MP management skills.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

That...is really hard to believe. Especially since AST has the worst MP management skills.

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The LA buff in 3.2 pushed AST to have much better MP efficiency then WHM now.

I just had an M3 where I accidentally ate two bombs, died, got ressed, pop LA, managed to res three other people afterwards, and still sat on 6K MP afterwards in the last minute or two minutes of the fight.

AST MP efficiency is that good now. I actually go AST on DF Midas now because if I get derpy groups, I have more wipe recovery potential on AST than WHM.

Whether its stronger than SCH, that's a good question. I doubt it is but SCH was never a fully MP-dependent job anyway.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

That...is really hard to believe. Especially since AST has the worst MP management skills.

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You really are so negative on Astro, cause that isn't true at all. LA is the best MP refresh skill in the game now, Shroud doesn't compare anymore. Plus with the Sects cutting 25% of AST's healing aggro by-default that is barely an issue now too. You'd be surprised how many raises we can handle alone. You don't even need Ewer in a bind, and even if you got the card, the latest 3.2 enhancements now is about 50 potency per tick.

This is actually one of the few fights where I think AST shines a bit more than WHM. It's a lot of aoe healing on the move, and that's something that caters really well to AST's toolkit (lightspeed). Lots of double target healing (tanks in add phase, tanks with towers, tanks with towers and adds) and great places to synastry. Lots of temporary stacking before movement (before green and pink circles, before knockbacks and yesods in the final phase) also makes CU pretty powerful in this fight. The limited range of aspected helios is not an issue since the only mechanic that really forces you to spread far away doesn't require immediate aoe healing and only requires you to top off tanks. Makes me wonder a bit if this fight was designed with AST in mind.

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Originally Posted by technole

You really are so negative on Astro, cause that isn't true at all. LA is the best MP refresh skill in the game now, Shroud doesn't compare anymore. Plus with the Sects cutting 25% of AST's healing aggro by-default that is barely an issue now too. You'd be surprised how many raises we can handle alone. You don't even need Ewer in a bind, and even if you got the card, the latest 3.2 enhancements now is about 50 potency per tick.

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^^^^^^^ ALLLLLL of this. I'm sorry, but if you can't manage your MP now as an AST, there's something wrong. I never really had issues with it before (or with aggro, save for a couple of mess-ups in Savage; perhaps our tanks were just really good) 3.2, either, even after just picking up the class when people had previously warned me about how difficult MP management was. (One person told me to throw the Ewer on myself whenever I got it, because I would always need it... which I soon found was unnecessary.)

Anywho. I just got to try SephEX for the first time last night. Was a fresh learning group, so we just BARELY made it to Phase 2 once out of all the pulls we made. (Most of our screw-ups occurred with stacking circles and blowing each other up. ;;; ) My initial judgment: this fight is a massive heal check. Was healing alongside a WHM, too. But I figure once I get the flow of damage in order (which I really had down by the time we concluded our learning party last night, for Phase 1 anyway) and figure out when to pop which CDs, it'll be a lot less difficult. Reading through the replies on this thread has helped give me a few new ideas of where I can use some of my CDs, actually. ;P

I also find it a bit easier to use Diurnal Sect in this fight as an AST, regardless of whether or not you're running with a WHM: remember, unlike AST+SCH shields, AST+WHM regens stack. I haven't made it into Phase 2 or 3 yet, of course, but as far as Phase 1 goes, it seems the regens + enhanced attack speed is almost invaluable. I haven't run into any situations yet where AST's shield mitigation can mean life or death, even with the tank buster: a Disable provided enough mitigation for our tank to save one of his CDs. Sure, this may change in the later phases; but I also find it easier to learn things in Diurnal until you (and your co-healer, if they're a WHM, since you really can't/shouldn't run Noct with a SCH anyhow) have a greater handle on the flow of damage and the HPS the fight requires, and when to pop what CDs.

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Originally Posted by Miyha

My initial judgment: this fight is a massive heal check.

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Is it? Because I find it extremely boring to heal as astrologian. Even moreso as a white mage

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

Is it? Because I find it extremely boring to heal as astrologian. Even moreso as a white mage

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Read:

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Originally Posted by Miyha

I just got to try SephEX for the first time last night.

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Originally Posted by Miyha

Was a fresh learning group...

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Originally Posted by Miyha

My initial judgment: this fight is a massive heal check.

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If it was still as easy/boring to heal your very first time through with a PF group of people who have never run it before (and four people who had never endgame raided before at all) at likely just barely cleared the ilvl req, then I'm happy for you~. You are obviously a more talented healer than I am, I will admit.

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Originally Posted by Miyha

If it was still as easy/boring to heal your very first time through with a PF group of people who have never run it before (and four people who had never endgame raided before at all) at likely just barely cleared the ilvl req, then I'm happy for you~. You are obviously a more talented healer than I am, I will admit.

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This is not a matter of talent, but more of the ability and effort spend to recognise patterns. Be it first entry or umpthteen entry. The fight is very slow paced with it's damage and it's not even that high. It's a lot of AoE healing, yes. But the incoming damage is pretty slow. If you're only chasing the facts after it already happened, then any fight is going to be hard to heal. In particular Sephirot Ex after the double john cena stomps: AoE damage happens > you start casting only after the AoE already happens -> You're gonna be late to prep up for the big hit -> you heal up the tank and be late to heal up the group for the next AoE damage -> You'll still need to top off the group for the marked AoEs
Or in other words: You're always steps behind. So analyze, anticipate, and control the fight. Don't let the fight control you

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Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine

This is not a matter of talent, but more of the ability and effort spend to recognise patterns. Be it first entry or umpthteen entry. The fight is very slow paced with it's damage and it's not even that high. It's a lot of AoE healing, yes. But the incoming damage is pretty slow. If you're only chasing the facts after it already happened, then any fight is going to be hard to heal. In particular Sephirot Ex after the double john cena stomps: AoE damage happens > you start casting only after the AoE already happens -> You're gonna be late to prep up for the big hit -> you heal up the tank and be late to heal up the group for the next AoE damage -> You'll still need to top off the group for the marked AoEs
Or in other words: You're always steps behind. So analyze, anticipate, and control the fight. Don't let the fight control you

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Bolded part = I lol'd.

And I still consider that somewhat of a talent, if you can pick up on those things right away. ;; I'll admit, it takes me a few tries to pick up on things and figure out exactly what to do (though I still consider myself a fast learner, since it's not like I'll stay in the same place for like... days, or even hours, at a time). But I like that: "Control the fight. Don't let the fight control you." Something I've been trying to be better with in terms of precasting and gauging things (and something AS has helped a lot with, lol ;;; ), because I realize sometimes I do have a tendency to miss things and go into panic mode.;;

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Originally Posted by Miyha

My initial judgment: this fight is a massive heal check.

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Nah you're not wrong there. The healers on this thread who are acting a little cocky and calling in a light heal check are ignoring elements in encounter design. This fight requires about 4k heals per second to clear. To put that in perspective, that's the same HPS requirement for a3s. You could argue that everything's slow and scripted, but the same is true for a3s (esp last phase). Additionally this fight has several mechanics built in just to disrupt your rhtyhm and force you to heal on the move.

So don't get discouraged if you're a little overwhelmed by the heal timings at first. Healing this fight is all about being economical with movement and aggressively using swiftcast for heals assuming your sch can hande most raises.

Yeah, everything becomes boring to heal once you get your timings down, even when it's daunting at first. No news at all here, don't get discouraged.

I can understand the healing being boring statement though if you been around since the beginning with end-game content. The script isn't anything really new if you had to heal Titan Extreme back in the i90 days, or more recently A3S last phase like x6 splashes. It's extreme for a reason, and you don't outgear the content so of course for those with less end-game experience it's going to be more daunting initially.