Please consider removing raid level accuracy requirements from dungeons.

Reasons:

Scholars require using Energy Drain for mana management. Missing an Energy Drain no longer provides mana as it did in ARR. The same goes with using Bane. Miasma missing is wasted mana for a Bane.

Dungeon Mechanics. The two new dungeons have mechanics where two people are randomly incapacitated and the remaining two are required to do damage to free them. Healers are placed at an distinct disadvantage compared to other classes. Tanks get accuracy from tank stance.

Relative fun. Players generally consider dungeons lesser content to raids. Players who raid expect a certain challenge that is different from casual content. Placing raid mechanics on casual content isn't fun.

Money/Time disadvantage. Tanks and DPS don't have to worry about accuracy requirement because their gear is swimming in it. If healers want to be able to do damage during dungeons consistently they have an extra expense tanks and DPS don't.

http://www.siliconera.com/wordpress/...oto6_thumb.jpg

Its not raid level accuracy thats needed, nor is it a raid mechanic that we are seeing in dungeons. Nor is it the case that healers missing in dps will wipe the party (a 17% miss chance is not going to wipe the party in the last boss of anti-tower).

However, gear needs token accuracy for healers.

Um, Energy Drain never gave mana for a miss?

Anyway, just meld accuracy now and you'll be fine.

The required accuracy for dungeon is nowhere near raid level.

Just wanted to point out that Tanks and DPS aren't swimming in accuracy, they often have to plan their gear out and wear sub-optimal (iLvl wise) gear just to make checks. It's not a free pass for any of the roles, lets stop being so petty. ;D

Tank gear is not swimming in ACC. Warrior sort of pre-3.2 if you didn't itemize right, or didn't get any Gordias Savage gear.

Alas you have those materia slots to do something with, and dungeons are not raid level ACC.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Um, Energy Drain never gave mana for a miss?

Anyway, just meld accuracy now and you'll be fine.

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Energy Drain never missed before 3.0 due to acc cap being low in non-raid content, so it's a moot point.

Think it's supposed to go into a direction where healer is not supposed to be a dps who happens to be able to heal, much like the recent tank changes attempt to make tanks tanking. The couple incapacitating mechanics you mention don't fail due healer accuracy checks.

A fully melded set with tier 4 accuracy gives you +162 accuarcy, so you get to 516 accuracy (around A2S acc cap).
A fully melded set with tier 5 accuracy gives you +216 accuracy, 570 accuracy (around A6S acc cap, from what i know).

Still wish we could get some accuracy on gear so we at least don't miss on snoozefest dungeons without melds. Additionally, any materia bonus you might have will get ignored in any level/ilvl synced content.

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

Energy Drain never missed before 3.0 due to acc cap being low in non-raid content, so it's a moot point.

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Dungeons sure, but the statement was you got mp back when you missed, which is untrue...

I missed energy drains in final coil like it was going out of style so I'd know. XD

I've always been annoyed that Energy Drain can miss at all given it expends an aetherize stack, but if they haven't changed it by now then it is likely to be working as intended.

At least Bio/Bio II/Shadowflare never miss.

I'm in agreement we shouldn't have this problem in anything so low as expert roulette. As a WHM pretty much every DPS spell I have can miss (and now does) which is a real pain when I'm trying to help with things like breaking people out of dolls and watching Stone II miss five times in a row. No it doesn't wipe the party but I'm also not given enough to do to compensate for the fact that I can't dps as easily. If I don't want to twiddle my thumbs in content where hardly any real healing challenges exist, I'm expected to meld accuracy...which will negatively effect me in content where healing is more intensive and other stats would be preferred. It's all well and good to ask me to heal only but not unless I'm given enough to do and certainly not considering how many DPS skills HW added to my arsenal.

I normally prefer to play healers but got a bit burnt out healing the last patch, so I switched to SMN for roulettes. I tried to get back into healing expert roulette with 3.2 but the amount my DPS spells miss now killed a good part of my rediscovered enthusiasm. There simply is not enough to do to heal only in dungeons, and I find it boring to wait around for people to take sufficient damage so that I don't feel like I'm overhealing when I heal them. I know I can (and will) meld accuracy to make up the gap, but I find it pretty annoying that a good part of my new "customization" is basically going to be spent to be able to do something I've previously been able to do on the lowest level of current content. Some small accuracy boost, at least enough for the expert roulette dungeons would be great.

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Originally Posted by Sida

Think it's supposed to go into a direction where healer is not supposed to be a dps who happens to be able to heal.

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Unfortunately the alternative to dpsing is idling.

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Originally Posted by winsock

Unfortunately the alternative to dpsing is idling.

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I think SE wants us to take off our gear so we don't fall asleep. I think that's also why they make healer gear so ugly.

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Originally Posted by winsock

Unfortunately the alternative to dpsing is idling.

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yeah, i have absolutly NOTHING to do in those dungeons. even when the tank does bigger pulls... in 2.x the tank took at least SOME damage.... so, switching to cleric.... miss, miss, miss...

i have NO idea why the other 3 people would bring a healer to the party, and to be this healer is far away from enjoyable...

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Originally Posted by Sida

Think it's supposed to go into a direction where healer is not supposed to be a dps who happens to be able to heal, much like the recent tank changes attempt to make tanks tanking. The couple incapacitating mechanics you mention don't fail due healer accuracy checks.

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Originally Posted by winsock

Unfortunately the alternative to dpsing is idling.

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The point is that healers are healers who can throw out some damage spells in their downtime. They are not damage dealers who throw out heals when necessary.

The accuracy requirements are fine. Sure, Gravity will miss a target now and then. It's not a big deal. If things aren't dying fast enough, there are much graver problems with the party than the healer's one or two misses.

Two misses out of 60 possible hits on a group of four mobs during a 15x Gravity spam is nothing. Four mobs surviving long enough for me to cast Gravity fifteen times? DDs aren't doing their jobs.

(Healer accuracy) / (dungeon accuracy requirements) are fine.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

The point is that healers are healers who can throw out some damage spells in their downtime. They are not damage dealers who throw out heals when necessary.

The accuracy requirements are fine. Sure, Gravity will miss a target now and then. It's not a big deal. If things aren't dying fast enough, there are much graver problems with the party than the healer's one or two misses.

Two misses out of 60 possible hits on a group of four mobs during a 15x Gravity spam is nothing. Four mobs surviving long enough for me to cast Gravity fifteen times? DDs aren't doing their jobs.

(Healer accuracy) / (dungeon accuracy requirements) are fine.

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The issue is that in expert roulette we don't /need/ to heal full time. There is very little reason I can't remain in cleric for 80% of a dungeon given the difficulty of the two new ones released so long as I know when tank busters are coming and plan appropriately. Even some of those can be completely negated by HoTs. Also...2 in 60? You're doing way better than I am. I've missed up to six times in a row with Stone III. Holy misses half the targets on a regular basis which is really frustrating considering its stun effect is a nice utility that is suddenly not reliable. Aero III? Same deal. Often misses half the targets and I've had it miss all but one in a pack of four at least once.

The thing is tanks now, on average, have more HP, the dungeons are abysmally easy and there aren't a whole lot of mechanics that keep healers occupied otherwise so it's left us in an awkward situation with like expert roulette. I can meld accuracy just to have something to do but that will negatively effect me when I move on to do harder content where I don't have as much need to dps because the incoming damage and mechanics are more punishing. In which case I'd rather have stronger heals, more mana etc but I'm being forced to make that choice. It feels like they forgot to commit. They are discouraging healers from dpsing as much but didn't give us anything to do in its place? In fact we have more openings than ever and they even gated the new dungeons pretty heavily to keep people from doing overly large pulls. Personally I feel like they need to give healers enough of a boost in accuracy to not need melds or at least limit the misses in casual content /or/ they need to back track, stop giving us so many dps skills and properly challenge us at all levels of content. Which is to say, they need to make up their minds.

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Originally Posted by BroodingFicus

The issue is that in expert roulette we don't /need/ to heal full time.

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I'm just saying, whether or not we need to be healing full time, healing is what we're there for. Healer damage isn't a constitutional right, or anything...it's a luxury. The lack of accuracy doesn't prevent anyone from casting offensive spells in their downtime. But put simply, we're not damage dealers, and hitting with every offensive spell is not a guarantee of our role description. Cast the spells, and if they miss, they miss. Offense is a secondary duty. If things don't die fast enough, it's not our fault.

If you feel a compelling need to do substantial damage, then invest some of your materia slots on accuracy or switch to a damage dealer job.

When you see Holy miss all four targets, that's when the frustration starts.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

I'm just saying, whether or not we need to be healing full time, healing is what we're there for. Healer damage isn't a constitutional right, or anything...it's a luxury. The lack of accuracy doesn't prevent anyone from casting offensive spells in their downtime. But put simply, we're not damage dealers, and hitting with every offensive spell is not a guarantee of our role description. Cast the spells, and if they miss, they miss. Offense is a secondary duty. If things don't die fast enough, it's not our fault.

If you feel a compelling need to do substantial damage, then invest some of your materia slots on accuracy or switch to a damage dealer job.

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If it would really be only few misses I would say I agree with you, but the amount of misses without melds is ridiculous.
If they would give healers something to do in the snooze fest dungeons that miss rate would be fine, but the thing is tanks cannot pull more to make us work more and there isn't enough for healers to heal atm. So that leads to healers sitting there idle thumbs up in their ass.

The acc cap being high kicks especially whms cuz whms don't have any skill that could not miss and really nothing else to do if nobody needs healing. Asts have their cards and dots that cannot miss so they have atleast something to do and schs have dots that cannot miss either so I guess thats somthing.

Melding acc to gear would be silly since in harder content whms and asts are usually the main healers so there the healing suffers for it. Melding shouldn't be required before hard content, hard content is the place where u need to choose if you choose main or off healing which also affects your meldings.

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Originally Posted by KeairaR

nothing else to do if nobody needs healing

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That's the thing though. There is something to do. Cast offensive spells. So what if they're going to miss?

The accuracy requirements don't prevent you from casting spells or being useful. Any damage above 0dps is a gain. No matter how badly a healer might want to put out 2000 dps, that's not a healer's job, and the dungeons should not cater to healers so that they can do someone else's job. Put out whatever damage you can. Just don't expect the game to let you be a DD-who-heals instead of a healer-who-DDs. Don't trivialize the people who are actually there to kill things.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

That's the thing though. There is something to do. Cast offensive spells. So what if they're going to miss?

The accuracy requirements don't prevent you from casting spells or being useful. Any damage above 0dps is a gain. No matter how badly a healer might want to put out 2000 dps, that's not a healer's job, and the dungeons should not cater to healers so that they can do someone else's job. Put out whatever damage you can. Just don't expect the game to let you be a DD-who-heals instead of a healer-who-DDs. Don't trivialize the people who are actually there to kill things.

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Its not all about the DPS. In fact...its not much about the DPS at all. At least for me. Its as follows:

1. The utility on my DPS skills fails if the damage misses. Fluid aura is useful for helping tanks position mobs (like that sprite that is /always/ on the stairs in Lost City hard) and Holy can help mitigate damage and interrupt mobs that have a lot of cones/aoe's they like to spam. Which helps dps maintain rotations and keeps extra damage off the tank. Now they are no longer reliable.
2. MP used on skills that miss so often now is a waste. Which could, if someone botches mechanics or dies etc, negatively effect my actual job.
3. Its just obnoxiously frustrating. Especially with moves like Aero III where I then have to tab through mobs to figure out who got hit and who didn't to see if its worth taking another gamble on it.

As Keaira said, maybe this is more acute on WHM since /all/ our dps skills can miss and we have no alternative to keep ourselves busy (cards or reliable skills that can't miss). I don't expect to do 2000 dps. I don't expect dungeons to cater to healers ability to dps. I /do/ expect not to be presented with an arbitrary wall that asks me to sacrifice improvements to my healing capability in order to achieve the same proficiency I had previously (which was based on your skill at stance dancing, managing mana and your party not HA HA HA RNG). I expect that, if this is our new direction, the expert roulette dungeons should have more built in healing challenges to keep us occupied. It isn't about 'trivializing' DPS jobs. Its about asking to be allowed to do /our/ job to the best of our ability without being made to jump through irrational hoops.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

That's the thing though. There is something to do. Cast offensive spells. So what if they're going to miss?

The accuracy requirements don't prevent you from casting spells or being useful. Any damage above 0dps is a gain. No matter how badly a healer might want to put out 2000 dps, that's not a healer's job, and the dungeons should not cater to healers so that they can do someone else's job. Put out whatever damage you can. Just don't expect the game to let you be a DD-who-heals instead of a healer-who-DDs. Don't trivialize the people who are actually there to kill things.

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It would be so what if the miss rate would be 10-15% but its way more than that. I have overmelded ring and earrings so i sit with 423 acc and with those my miss rate is around the 10-15%.
Dpsing isn't free, it costs alot mp so should get bit better return from it.
Also people who see the effort to dps as healer they should get somthing else in return than missing half of the hits. In games you see effort and get something for return in this case the return isn't good enough. And its very easy casual content so I don't think such a dung should require melding. Feels bit dum that I need to to meld acc to 220+ gears to be able to hit in dung that ilvl requirement is 180.


Generally saying I would even give up the 10% damage boost of cleric stance away for some acc, and I dont think it would be game breaking if healers would have bit extra accuracy.