Simple Ninja Rotation question

Do NIN use shadowfang? Im only lvl 47 now but no stranger to hardcore raiding and min/maxing. So i was wondering if the ability Shadow fang is used at end game..... Seems intrusive to the flow of things and a possible DPS loss. Can any end game NINs that mains the class in raids chime in please?

Yes, you want to use it and keep that DoT active.

O____O!!!

Use it...
The sooner and longer it is up, the better... specially with MU... it is not a DPS loss, never!!
Just make sure to renew it before it fades (at like 3 seconds).
It can totally follow the scheme of:

MU > SF > 3HitsCombo > 3HitsCombo > SF > 3HC > MU > 3HC > SF

SF is renewed once every 2 3HitsCombo
MU is renewed once every 3 3HitsCombo
MU and SF can be interpreted together as another 3HitsCombo of 800 potency. Which beats the AE combo of 670 potency.

Should no DoT be up on the enemy, MU should be placed before SF.
Should both DoTs be about to fade out of the enemy (about 4 seconds on both of them), SF should be renewed before MU.

SF requires 9 seconds to do as much damage as AE.
MU requires 24~27 seconds to do as much damage as AE.
Do not use them if the one target you are hitting will not live longer than that.

The acronyms are killing me :( . Im guessing AE is Aoelien Edge and SF obviously Shadowfang. You got me scratching my head at the others though. Edit: i take that back.......MU = mutilate?

Oh, sorry, force of habit

MU -> Mutilate
SF -> Shadow Fang
AE -> Aeolian Edge
GS -> Gust Slash
SE -> Spinning Edge
TA -> Trick Attack
AC -> Armor Crush
DE -> Dancing Edge
DwaD -> Dream within a Dream

the 3HitsCombos are DE, AC and AE, because they all go through SE and GS first. The allocation can vary depending on your needs.

For the previous example:

Mutilate > Spinning Edge > Shadow Fang > Spinning Edge > Gust Slash > Dancing Edge > Spinning Edge > Gust Slash > Aeolian Edge > Spinning Edge > Shadow Fang > Spinning Edge > Gust Slash > Dancing Edge > Mutilate > Spinning Edge > Gust Slash > Armor Crush > Spinning Edge > Shadow Fang > blahblahblah

Shorter version:

MU > SF > DE > AE > SF > DE > MU > AC > SF

Edit: Tucking Fypos...

telling someone to open with MU is just plain bad advice :( sorry.

If you open with MU then it ticks totally unbuffed, losing a massive amount of damage. You should open with a 3 hit combo (usually DE, unless you have a warrior you can rely on to get Storm's Eye up in 3 GCDs, which case it should be AE), weaving Internal Release and Blood for Blood, then do SF, then MU.

You should also be looking to get Trick Attack up between Spinning Edge and Shadow Fang, so it buffs both dots.

Also: which dot to put up first if none are ticking is dependent on the fight. Do you have 30 seconds of uninterrupted dps time, then MU first, otherwise, SF is better to do first.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DarkerOrange

telling someone to open with MU is just plain bad advice :( sorry.

If you open with MU then it ticks totally unbuffed, losing a massive amount of damage. You should open with a 3 hit combo (usually DE, unless you have a warrior you can rely on to get Storm's Eye up in 3 GCDs, which case it should be AE), weaving Internal Release and Blood for Blood, then do SF, then MU.

You should also be looking to get Trick Attack up between Spinning Edge and Shadow Fang, so it buffs both dots.

Also: which dot to put up first if none are ticking is dependent on the fight. Do you have 30 seconds of uninterrupted dps time, then MU first, otherwise, SF is better to do first.

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Yeah i wait until i use dancing edge to mutilate so it benefits from the slashing debuff

Yeah was gonna say. Use mutilate > Spinning > Shadow Fang after Dancing Edge always.

Err... guys... the DoT of both MU and SF isnt affected by the slashing debuff...

It is affected by TA, B4B, IR and similar buffs... thats why the openers with TA have DE first before MU and SF... but if you arent going full force with that target or changing between a lot of them, DE loses in priority by a lot...

In other words, MU with DE only gains 6 point of potency... while SF gains 20.
Speaking roughly of potency points here, without the use of any sort of buffs:

DE > MU > SF > AE
610 > 66 > 220 > 737
6 seconds > 2s > 4s > 6s
MU roughly ticks 3 times, so 90.
SF roughly ticks 2 times, so 80
1773 potency in 18 seconds

MU > SF > DE > AE
60 > 220 > 610 > 737
2s > 4s > 6s > 6s
MU roughly ticks 5 times, so 150.
SF roughly ticks 4 times, so 160.
1937 potency in 18 seconds

but any enemy you aren't going all out on is probably meaningless trash, therefore MU usage is questionable at best.

You are, ofcourse, welcome to do whatever you want, but please don't go around telling people to open with MU.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

SF requires 9 seconds to do as much damage as AE.
MU requires 24~27 seconds to do as much damage as AE.
Do not use them if the one target you are hitting will not live longer than that.

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I did put that there in the first post for a reason...

Yeah that was the general rule in my WoW raiding days Never rupture(WoW's version of mutilate) on a target that won't last longer than 20 seconds. But to the other point, are you sure mutilate Isn't affected by the 10% slashing debuff and why would it not be? Hopefully that question doesnt come off as condescending just genuinely trying to understand the background mechanics.

The initial damage is affected by DE, but dot damage is not affected by resistance debuffs.

It depends I normally only use Shadow Fang for quickly kill mobs, but for mobs with lots of HP I use MU and SF together. Since I'm using controller I'll use MU on low HP mobs only if I remember to xD guess I'm a bad NIN....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DarkerOrange

The initial damage is affected by DE, but dot damage is not affected by resistance debuffs.

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Ah. That makes sense