add an in game parser please!!!

Pretty please.

Already existing. See SSS

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Already existing. See SSS

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Striking dummy =/= ingame parser, but it's probably the closest thing we're going to get. :/

SE entered into ARR extremely safe and new player friendly, trying to completely avoid any 'hard/confrontational' gameplay, mechanics or systems. They treated the player base as babies.

The player base became babies. 'Growing up' in a game where their every need was catered too, and everything was handed to them on a silver platter.

And now we can't have nice things. RIP supported addons. Hard dungeons. Larger raid tiers. Decent PVP. Or any competitive PVE gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Striking dummy =/= ingame parser, but it's probably the closest thing we're going to get. :/

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it doesn't calculate, or add up DMG over time... just shows what everything else shows you.

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Originally Posted by Namaeko

it doesn't calculate, or add up DMG over time... just shows what everything else shows you.

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That's why I said it's not an ingame parser. >_>

Did you perhaps quote the wrong person?

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Striking dummy =/= ingame parser, but it's probably the closest thing we're going to get. :/

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Agree :/
While with your dummy and time left when killed, you know what dps you have in an ideal situation, it fails to give a precise idea about how you're performing in real duties.

Still better than nothing, especially for console players

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Agree :/
While with your dummy and time left when killed, you know what dps you have in an ideal situation, it fails to give a precise idea about how you're performing in real duties.

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If you can't beat a dummy without movement and mechanics, then you probably aren't doing the required DPS for the said content in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

If you can't beat a dummy without movement and mechanics, then you probably aren't doing the required DPS for the said content in the first place.

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This is off-topic.

I can beat AS1 dummy with my bard, but the class is such a mess for me (might just be my hotbars but anyway.. ) that I can't even perform reasonably in dungeons. I fail to reaply dots, forget about procs, forget totally about the new skills, etc. As soon as I have sth other than my hotbars to focus on, I hust can't do it.

... but I can beat AS1 dummy, so I must be doing well even in dungeons, amirite ? >_>

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

... but I can beat AS1 dummy, so I must be doing well even in dungeons, amirite ? >_>

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If you can beat the dummy your dps with your gear and rotation should be sufficient, yes. If you can't bring that same dps into te duty, how exactly would the parser help with that?

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

This is off-topic.

I can beat AS1 dummy with my bard, but the class is such a mess for me (might just be my hotbars but anyway.. ) that I can't even perform reasonably in dungeons. I fail to reaply dots, forget about procs, forget totally about the new skills, etc. As soon as I have sth other than my hotbars to focus on, I hust can't do it.

... but I can beat AS1 dummy, so I must be doing well even in dungeons, amirite ? >_>

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That's an issue you need to figure out yourself - Swapping hotbars, changing keybinds, UI adjustment, etc. Performance optimization.

They already said there won't be an in-game dps meter because people will use it to abuse others. And no I'm not talking about the hard end game content. I've seen people accusing each other for low dps in simple dungeons. Not the extremely low type of dps but I've seen some using DPS meters to chastise others in every opportunity just because they want to feel uber. This is the reason they put the Sky Stone Sea so you can safely test yourself. Once I came up in an abusive situation with my friend. We were in a dungeon and talking over Skype. His kids came and were talking to him distracting him out of his "max dps" (I cannot multi-tast very well too). The 2nd DPS who was a random guy from D.R. was using a dps meter and used it to abuse my friend for his low dps. Note that his kids distracted him out of his max dps only for 5 mins but this was enough for the other player to abuse my friend. This is what will come upon us with an in-game dps meter.

Maybe it's useful for some situations but I'm afraid many toxic players will use it against others with every chance just because they wanna feel good about themselves. You can still use a 3rd party one for your own purposes but if you abuse others you can be reported.

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Originally Posted by Riardon

They already said there won't be an in-game dps meter because people will use it to abuse others.

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That's no argument - Harassing people over the DPS that was shown by 3rd party parsers was always a punishable offense, which SE is swift to execute.

If they will add their own parsers for everyone, nothing will change in their policy at all - When you talk shit about others regarding their DPS, they can file a ticket and the support will come and put you back in place.

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Originally Posted by Sida

If you can beat the dummy your dps with your gear and rotation should be sufficient, yes. If you can't bring that same dps into te duty, how exactly would the parser help with that?

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Putting it shortly, a parser helps you optimize in a specific situation. Anyone thinking that their optimal CD usage on a dummy will help them perfom better on Ravana is delusional at best. My mnk dps went up by 400 on this fight the day I understood that.

Ofc it won't help my bard though :p but it can still show that I improved, even if just a bit. Something a dummy can't say because I fail at keeping focus on multiple things, not at pushing buttons

A self parser that can tell you your:

Overheal, Accuracy, Own DPS, Group DPS total, Group DPS total required to beat fight (Maybe), personnal record the dungeon/trial (Maybe and Client side only.)

^ Thats what I'd want if we cant have a full blown parser.

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Originally Posted by Pence

SE entered into ARR extremely safe and new player friendly, trying to completely avoid any 'hard/confrontational' gameplay, mechanics or systems. They treated the player base as babies.

The player base became babies. 'Growing up' in a game where their every need was catered too, and everything was handed to them on a silver platter.

And now we can't have nice things. RIP supported addons. Hard dungeons. Larger raid tiers. Decent PVP. Or any competitive PVE gameplay.

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The usual "wah wah I want harder" post. Maybe you do and you're genuine. But they made Pharos Sirius normal hard and enough people whined to have that go away. People say they wanted harder coil and they make savage SCoB...no savage FCoB. People say they want harder raids again, get Gordias savage, whine that it's too hard. The "game is too easy" crowd is one that I find hard to take seriously at this point.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

This is off-topic.

I can beat AS1 dummy with my bard, but the class is such a mess for me (might just be my hotbars but anyway.. ) that I can't even perform reasonably in dungeons. I fail to reaply dots, forget about procs, forget totally about the new skills, etc. As soon as I have sth other than my hotbars to focus on, I hust can't do it.

... but I can beat AS1 dummy, so I must be doing well even in dungeons, amirite ? >_>

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It just means that your gear is covering what you lack in your rotation.

SSS is basically a rotation and gear check.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

This is off-topic.

I can beat AS1 dummy with my bard, but the class is such

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Might I suggest that you just keep grinding on the dummy while you are focused on a good rotation over and over until it's natural muscle memory? I think what's wrong is you play against a dummy and if you can focus on just dPS you do fine but once you have to think about that and mechanics you prioritize mechanics.

You need to grind that rotation until it becomes habit and then being bad is hard

Fighting game competitive players will grin a scenario over and over until their muscle memory knows what to do the second it sees something.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/22110572.jpg

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Originally Posted by Malzian

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/400x/22110572.jpg

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Exactly and guess what the same people will say the same thing they said in countless other ones on this topic.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Striking dummy =/= ingame parser, but it's probably the closest thing we're going to get. :/

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It tests whether you are able to pass the minimum dps requirements of a given fight. You don't need to see a number to know that you're doing good enough. As long as you are able to clear the dummy, you know you're performing acceptably.

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

Already existing. See SSS

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Wouldn't be so bad if we could make a requirement "Must have cleared Example Dummy to enter." in the party finder and have it enforced by the game, but as it stands the best you're going to get is a screenshot (not sure if that works, don't remember if the dummy type is listed in the dlist), or watch them do it which would take an eternity per party member. "But it would lead to exclusion!", that's somewhat the point. The dummies are tuned so if you can clear them, you just might be able to meet the DPS check of the encounter, if you're unable to, practice more and get it down before even thinking about joining a party for that content.

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Originally Posted by Colorful

Wouldn't be so bad if we could make a requirement "Must have cleared Example Dummy to enter." and have it enforced by the game, but as it stands the best you're going to get is a screenshot (not sure if that works, don't remember if the dummy type is listed in the dlist), or watch them do it which would take an eternity per party member. "But it would lead to exclusion!", that's somewhat the point. The dummies are tuned so if you can clear them, you just might be able to meet the DPS check of the encounter, if you're unable to, practice more and get it down before even thinking about joining a party for that content.

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I'm not sure how well that would be received. It would certainly weed out the ice mages and the WM rebels.

However it has almost no bearing on a healer's skill or a tank's skill.

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Originally Posted by Averax

I'm not sure how well that would be received. It would certainly weed out the ice mages and the WM rebels.

However it has almost no bearing on a healer's skill or a tank's skill.

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They would have to design dummies specifically for those, but the majority of wipes I've seen in EX content is either due to DPS checks or mechanics. Getting rid at least one of those would always be nice, and SE could work on training for tanks and healers (maybe even DPS) through previously suggested things like an "Expert Hall".

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Originally Posted by RyuRoots

The usual "wah wah I want harder" post. Maybe you do and you're genuine. But they made Pharos Sirius normal hard and enough people whined to have that go away. People say they wanted harder coil and they make savage SCoB...no savage FCoB. People say they want harder raids again, get Gordias savage, whine that it's too hard. The "game is too easy" crowd is one that I find hard to take seriously at this point.

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TBF if the daily dungeons I do are any indicator the average player has the playing skill of a potato.

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Originally Posted by Pence

SE entered into ARR extremely safe and new player friendly, trying to completely avoid any 'hard/confrontational' gameplay, mechanics or systems. They treated the player base as babies.

The player base became babies. 'Growing up' in a game where their every need was catered too, and everything was handed to them on a silver platter.

And now we can't have nice things. RIP supported addons. Hard dungeons. Larger raid tiers. Decent PVP. Or any competitive PVE gameplay.

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I'm still salty about no tells in an instance.

Wait, so, like, why do you even need to to know your numbers. If anyone can give me a logical reason that isn't related to inflating their personal ego I'll sign the petition. If the SSS trial which has the DPS check in it exists, if you beat it then you are doing sufficient damage. If you fail it you are not. The exact number is irrelevant. Other's numbers are irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Averax

It tests whether you are able to pass the minimum dps requirements of a given fight. You don't need to see a number to know that you're doing good enough. As long as you are able to clear the dummy, you know you're performing acceptably.

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If you think a striking dummy that basically just says, "Yay! YOU WIN!" without providing further information would be just as useful as knowing the actual DPS you're putting out on a mob with, y'know, mechanics to perform and dodge, I'm not really sure what to tell you. I mean, the dummy is going to tell me I pass whether I pass the DPS check by 5 or 500. The dummy can't tell me whether or not changes to my rotation improve my DPS unless I was failing the DPS check to begin with, but knowing the actual DPS number can. Knowing the actual number is much more informative when it comes to knowing what works and what doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Judah_Brandt

Wait, so, like, why do you even need to to know your numbers. If anyone can give me a logical reason that isn't related to inflating their personal ego I'll sign the petition. If the SSS trial which has the DPS check in it exists, if you beat it then you are doing sufficient damage. If you fail it you are not. The exact number is irrelevant. Other's numbers are irrelevant.

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Some people just enjoy pushing their class to the absolute limits. I don't see what's irrelevant or wrong about that.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Striking dummy =/= ingame parser, but it's probably the closest thing we're going to get. :/

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Exactly. They fact that they introduced SSS instead of the parser people have been asking since the release of the game is an indirect way of saying it's not going to happen. What you can do, though, and your best bet is to start sending them suggestions on how to improve SSS; perhaps to add a damage info pop-up window at the end of a trial like in PvP (don't think it will happen at least in what remains of Heavenward).

What is wrong with adding numbers to SSS? It's not like anyone can see you or your numbers?

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Originally Posted by Judah_Brandt

snip.

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Well, how's this for example, say the SSS dummy needs 900 DPS to pass and I try it once and clear with 950. Then I try it again and clear with 1000. I'd like to be able to compare my rotations and use the optimal one every time, y'know? Also, with an SSS dummy party cooldowns aren't taken into effect, what if my 1000 rotation actually does less in practice because the cooldowns I used didn't line up with trick attack and battle litany? This is all useful information that a full on parser is capable of providing. Some people want it for epeen that's true but what we have now is like testing a class full of students and not telling them their grades or what they got wrong, just that they passed or failed.

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Originally Posted by Kai_Lee

What is wrong with adding numbers to SSS? It's not like anyone can see you or your numbers?

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You can already parse using SSS with excel or a nice website that I don't have the link handy on my phone, but how does that help me to see where/when I'm overhealing/missing %/AoE Dps/Mechanic&Handling upcoming invulnerability. Theory crafting is all you have by the end of it.

edit:
Link to how to self parse using SSS
Stone, Sky, Sea DPS Calculator

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Originally Posted by RyuRoots

But they made Pharos Sirius normal hard and enough people whined to have that go away. People say they wanted harder coil and they make savage SCoB...no savage FCoB. People say they want harder raids again, get Gordias savage, whine that it's too hard. The "game is too easy" crowd is one that I find hard to take seriously at this point.

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Well, with Pharos Sirius, it was more that PS was a lot more difficult than the other two dungeons in that ex roulette, but gave the same rewards. Same with savage SCoB ^^; (Well, apart from those giving a shiny title per tier.) While there might have been some grumbling if all three dungeons in the Pharos grouping had been Difficult, unless I misremember things most of the complaints regarding Pharos was regarding the discrepancy and how people kept leaving the party instantly when they saw they'd ended up in Pharos (because it wasn't worth the extra effort when you were just after the tomes).

With Savage Gordias, I think the main problem was that A: they released normal two weeks beforehand, meaning those who'd be inclined to run savage had run normal 'way too many times' already, and B: the mechanics didn't seem to be that much different, apart from adding 'more'. More DPS checks, more of the same mechanic, etc. (Never ran Savage, so this is based on what I've seen people say or post, not personal experience, and I might be wrong.)
While I'm going to run Gordias Savage at some point, so I can get the dyeable caster/healer chest pieces, mostly I've been 'meh' about it. Midas savage... I actually want to try, because I've seen unused 'props' in normal and been wondering how they will be used in savage.

I used to be kind of against in-game parsers, due to having run into the 'bad' parsing crowd. You know, the ones who rag on other people for underperforming. But after having had 'friends' make statements to the likes of, "I don't really make any effort when running things unless I'm forced to", and having seen things being completed faster with them dead.... yeah. There's a difference between seeing "things die relatively quickly, we're doing just fine" and seeing "ok, I'm in the bottom 20% of my job, and things die relatively quick anyway. I'm clearly not the reason things die this quickly".

PS was NOT hard. People gotta stop with that crap. Idiots were just unable to grasp the concept of killing adds (something you learn as early as lv15, mind you). So SE, instead of serving us the (to be famous) "git gud", nerfed the hell of an already super easy dungeon to make it as derp-proof as feasible while keeping the mechanics intact (somehow).

I swear, if their stance had been in 2.X like the one they displayed during 3.0-3.1, the generic DF player wouldn't be that bad

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

PS was NOT hard. People gotta stop with that crap.

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Well, I didn't get to 50 until after the PS nerf (damn you, altoholism!), so.. I don't really have anything to compare to ^^;


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Originally Posted by LunarEmerald

SSS basically is a parser. You just need to know the HP of each dummy and you can easily do the dps calculation.

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Well... Yeah. You can. But... just out of curiosity: how many AoEs do the dummies throw out? How many times does it jump across the arena or go invulnerable? How many additional dummies spawn that need to be taken down first? You know, those things that tend to happen in actual duties ^^;

SSS basically is a parser. You just need to know the HP of each dummy and you can easily do the dps calculation.

Better not add it. Or, if they put it, only for you and no more. We dont need elitist guys bitching about other DPS or using it to discriminate people or something. That's the reason we have not any and we won't have any, I think.

We already have the infamous "Fail = kick and blacklist" on the PF, we don't need the "Low DPS = kick". Oh wait, there are already some...

The new addition Sky,Sea,Stone is more than enough for me. Down the dummy and you have anough DPS. Who cares if it s 1800 DPs or 1799.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

Better not add it. Or, if they put it, only for you and no more. We dont need elitist guys bitching about other DPS or using it to discriminate people or something. That's the reason we have not any and we won't have any, I think.

We already have the infamous "Fail = kick and blacklist" on the PF, we don't need the "Low DPS = kick". Oh wait, there are already some...

The new addition Sky,Sea,Stone is more than enough for me. Down the dummy and you have anough DPS. Who cares if it s 1800 DPs or 1799.

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Do you honestly think that the addition of an in game parser would change that in any way? And why SHOULDN'T people be held accountable for causing a farm or serious clear party to fail? Be honest, these fail and blacklisted parties are farms and progression clear groups, people who aren't up for it shouldn't be joining in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Jamillion

Do you honestly think that the addition of an in game parser would change that in any way? And why SHOULDN'T people be held accountable for causing a farm or serious clear party to fail? Be honest, these fail and blacklisted parties are farms and progression clear groups, people who aren't up for it shouldn't be joining in the first place.

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This is always brought up by people who are against parsers, I dont get it myself.

Like the example she gave, if someone is doing 1799 dps im ok with that, Im not ok with someone doing 400 dps.

I don't understand why people would be so against an in-game parser. Even without one, it's somewhat easy to tell who's the weak link in the group after one wipe anyhow. If there's one that's only visible from the player's end that parses their own DPS only, at least they'd be able to diagnose what their problem is more easily. Hell, I'd love to have that for my MNK.

From this end I see more upsides than downsides, making a more clear-cut way of getting things done more efficiently...