Ilberd

So who else thinks he's going to try to hijack the Omega for the Ala Mhigan Resistance? (assuming it won't be used as an anti-Nidhogg weapon instead)

Does Ilberd even know about Omega? He struck me as a pretty low-level pawn in everything. But, assuming he does, I'm not sure how he'd go about getting his hands on it; with Teledji gone, it's completely in Alliance hands, and he's more or less on the run from them.

I could totally see it being used in the Main Scenario or the Warring Triad stuff, though. Hopefully it's not just a dropped plot thread.

Firsts of all add "spoilers" plis if this related about the end of 3.2

Getting back to the thread, not sure sure how. The concept of the mask was well done, given that Ilbeld is probably on the blacklist specially of the ala mhigan resistance. Killing one of own men and that was a dear friend of someone highly involved on the resistance is not good.

We haven't heard anything about Omega since it was mentioned back in, what... 2.2? Presumably it's still a scrap heap buried in Cartenau.

If it shows up in the hands of Ilberd, of all people, I will call shenanigans.

I think SE is waiting to play the Omega card. He's usually the ultimate of endgame bosses so introducing him in the first few expansions is far too early in the overall story. His discovery in Cartenau was a clever bit of foreshadowing for when he finally does get used/activated but I don't think it'll be for a while yet. The earliest I would expect is towards the end of the next expansion as this is roughly when FFXI saw Omega as well. Who knows though...

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Originally Posted by Cilia

We haven't heard anything about Omega since it was mentioned back in, what... 2.2? Presumably it's still a scrap heap buried in Cartenau.

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Though Cartenau keeps getting mentioned, Lucia specifically mentioned it before the Grand Melee, which has me thinking Ishgard is aware of the situation... Which has me leaning further towards a "Ishgard may want to use this legendary dragon killing weapon" situation... Depends somewhat on what Omega was truly used for, we've had claims it was to stop and capture Bahamut (the Primal), but given we know Bahamut was once just a regular old dragon, I could see a twist being that Omega was used to kill Bahamut, and either something else contained the Primal, or they updated Omegas software for the job... Either way, I can see Ishgard going "This would be great to stop Nidhogg...", though I can't see that going down too well with anyone...

As for Ilberd... I think he is caught up in Y&Ps plot... Specifically that mask at the end of 3.2... No idea what that's about, but given Y&P are with the Ala Mhigan Resistance (though where I have no idea, Ala Mhigo is far too far IMO, I'm incline to say Paglth'an given the proximity to Ul'dah) and Ilberds goals, I can see him being in that neighborhood. Perhaps the mask is just a mask and he is trying to hide his identity from them, or maybe the mask is The Mask and Ilberd will be voiced by Jim Carrey in future... Who knows... Might not even have been Ilberd...

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Originally Posted by Hinoto-no-Ryuji

Does Ilberd even know about Omega? He struck me as a pretty low-level pawn in everything. But, assuming he does, I'm not sure how he'd go about getting his hands on it; with Teledji gone, it's completely in Alliance hands, and he's more or less on the run from them.

I could totally see it being used in the Main Scenario or the Warring Triad stuff, though. Hopefully it's not just a dropped plot thread.

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The Eorzean Alliance may well end up aiding Ishgard against Nidhogg's Final Chorus. So if they don't unearth Omega to combat the vengeful great wyrm, that would provide ample opportunity for him and other turncoat Crystal Braves to steal it right from under them.

With an Ascien's help, I can Ilberd shown how to operate Omega. Just like Ultima, Omega will probably lose control

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Originally Posted by myahele

With an Ascien's help, I can Ilberd shown how to operate Omega. Just like Ultima, Omega will probably lose control

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The thing you're forgetting though, is we have no idea how intact Omega really is. After all, look at Ultima Weapon - it was extensively rebuilt by the Garleans to make it functional, so what parts of it were original Allagan tech and what was Nero's magitek additions was unclear. Omega may be completely inoperable and would require extensive reconstruction to bring back online - something I doubt is beyond the limited capabilities of Eorzean engineers (the only ones would could probably do the job would be Cid and the Ironworks, and it's already clear they would vehemently refuse to even touch such a device, and in fact would chastise and criticize anyone who tried to).

That leaves the Skysteel Manufactory in Ishgard and well... the limit of their mechanical expertise is forging dragonkiller cannons - refitting an ancient Allagan superweapon would be completely beyond them (the last time they tried building an airship using magitek technology stolen from the Garleans and.. the ship has never worked - they had to resort to bring in Cid and the Ironworks just to fix the issues with it, without success. And the manacutters weren't even built by the Manufactory - they were constructed by Biggs and Wedge using the Manufactory's facilities).

No, I don't think Omega is going to be anything more than a vague Macguffin mentioned in passing to 'explain' why the Grand Companies are fighting over Carteneau, and won't actually appear in the game itself. But hey, I've been wrong plenty of times before! :D

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

The thing you're forgetting though, is we have no idea how intact Omega really is. After all, look at Ultima Weapon - it was extensively rebuilt by the Garleans to make it functional, so what parts of it were original Allagan tech and what was Nero's magitek additions was unclear. Omega may be completely inoperable and would require extensive reconstruction to bring back online - something I doubt is beyond the limited capabilities of Eorzean engineers (the only ones would could probably do the job would be Cid and the Ironworks, and it's already clear they would vehemently refuse to even touch such a device, and in fact would chastise and criticize anyone who tried to).

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There is another...

... but, after the World of Darkness, I don't think he'd retrofit an ancient weapon of mass destruction either.

It relly depends, there are plenty allagan creation that are up an running. Proto-Ultima being one of them

I think it's very likely that Ilberd will do something idiotic in the name of Ala Mhigo. I think he also stands to seize control of the Ala Mhigan resistance - which will put us at odds with Yda and Papalymo if they get involved too. This would make there be more room for intrigue and depth in a potential Ala Mhigan expansion since we'd want to eliminate the fanatically loyal Garleans and the fanatically loyal Ala Mhigans. Both will no doubt risk the lives of innocents in the name of their respective causes and at this point Ala Mhigo is full of both Ala Mhigans and Garleans - many of which may very well be friends.

Or at least I'd hope that would be the case. When Rabanastre was taken over by the Archadian Empire there was a lot of tension, yes, but many citizens came to admire, respect and even befriend the Archadians in the process. It certainly wasn't black or white and I hope the situation in Ala Mhigo isn't either.

Yeah Rabanastre and Archadian Empire, I miss FF12 days.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

I think it's very likely that Ilberd will do something idiotic in the name of Ala Mhigo. I think he also stands to seize control of the Ala Mhigan resistance - which will put us at odds with Yda and Papalymo if they get involved too. This would make there be more room for intrigue and depth in a potential Ala Mhigan expansion since we'd want to eliminate the fanatically loyal Garleans and the fanatically loyal Ala Mhigans. Both will no doubt risk the lives of innocents in the name of their respective causes and at this point Ala Mhigo is full of both Ala Mhigans and Garleans - many of which may very well be friends.

Or at least I'd hope that would be the case. When Rabanastre was taken over by the Archadian Empire there was a lot of tension, yes, but many citizens came to admire, respect and even befriend the Archadians in the process. It certainly wasn't black or white and I hope the situation in Ala Mhigo isn't either.

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I don't know. There are a few sides to this but the more messy it is the more drama. I would like to see a different perspective of Garlean occupation but on the flipside the stuff the Garleans did when they took over is something that would be dumb to whitewash. My memory of FF12 is a little old but I don't remember the Achadian Empire treating Rabanastre in anything close to the same way, ie. brainwashed conscripts killing their families, slave labour and forced prostitution.

As for the Ala Mhigan resistance, I don't think its a singular body but a lose collection of allied groups. I suspect the guys at little Ala Mhigo would have major issues with Ilberd since he murdered one of their number, Wilred.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

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Isn't a lot of the lore for the more extreme stuff tucked away in 1.0, though? I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it's toned down/ignored. There's a few subtle references to be found here and there in 2.0 and beyond but 2.0/3.0 as a whole is a lot less 'gritty' than 1.0 was. After all, Gridania was a far nastier place back in 1.0. In 2.0 and beyond, however, it has been toned down considerably.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Isn't a lot of the lore for the more extreme stuff tucked away in 1.0, though? I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it's toned down/ignored. There's a few subtle references to be found here and there in 2.0 and beyond but 2.0/3.0 as a whole is a lot less 'gritty' than 1.0 was. After all, Gridania was a far nastier place back in 1.0. In 2.0 and beyond, however, it has been toned down considerably.

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The forced prostitution is from 2.0 as is the forced labour. Conscription is 2.0 but the brainwashed killing families is 1.0 (though 1.0 has been pretty much canon throughout). The whole 'people in occupied and conquered territories aren't even considered citizens in garlean society and infact are considered in a class below citizen' is from a book in the Great Gubal Library.

I'm afraid to say, there is very strong lore to indicate that the Garleans did some really awful stuff to the Ala Mhigans and with the authorisation of the leadership. Hell, we have a half garlean in the Scions in the Waking Sands who is clearly implied to be the offspring of a Ala Mhigan woman raped by a Garlean when the city fell.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Isn't a lot of the lore for the more extreme stuff tucked away in 1.0, though? I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it's toned down/ignored. There's a few subtle references to be found here and there in 2.0 and beyond but 2.0/3.0 as a whole is a lot less 'gritty' than 1.0 was. After all, Gridania was a far nastier place back in 1.0. In 2.0 and beyond, however, it has been toned down considerably.

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The NPCs at the Waking Sands will obliquely discuss how Arenvald is half-Garlean and the product of the mass rapes that happened after Ala Mhigo fell, so yeah, not really toned down that much.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

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Right, but there's also strong lore to support the idea that Eorzeans have done similar things. Garlemald's expansion is a very recent thing...and as far as atrocities go such things are a fairly standard and grim consequence of war. It is highly likely that Eorzean forces do the same things given the same opportunities. Ishgard went to war over a lie that lasted a thousand years. Anyone who spoke up in that time against the status quo was murdered. We know from what our character uncovered that it wasn't an isolated affair - so the body count of innocents over that time period is no doubt substantial.

Ul'dah was also built on a lie as well given the situation involving Sil'dah. In short, Eorzea is no stranger to dark and twisted actions. Ul'dah and Ishgard are the most prominent, though Ala Mhigo isn't perfect and Gridania/Limsa have their flaws as well. I'm not saying that Garlemald is perfect - but if we can ignore all the bad stuff that the Ishgardians have done then I see no issue giving the Garleans the benefit of the doubt as well. They can't all be bad after all.

I hate to use the comparison but...war time atrocities happen in pretty much every conflict ever - even in the real world. The 'victors' or 'defenders' simply like to paint themselves as 'better' even if that isn't necessarily the case.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Right, but there's also strong lore to support the idea that Eorzeans have done similar things.

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In recent history? Where? The only nation that might apply to is Ishgard and we have tended to overthrow or kill the people behind that in HW, even when they are state sanctioned. Even then, Ishgard was in a war it had no choice but to fight or die with. There was no peaceful option open to them and frankly until we deal with Nidhogg their still isn't.

None of the city states show any sign of using conscription. Gridania has an established military force that makes up its grand companies, Ul'dah is made up of former mercenary groups and Limsa is made up of the former pirate fleets.

Slavery also isn't condoned in any of the modern city states. The closest is indentured servitude which is when someone enters into service to pay off a debt like most of Rowena's workers. Infact in Limsa, a slaver that escapes prosecution from the Yellowjackets runs the risk of getting murdered in their beds because its a breach of the code. As for the price of war, that's a hard call but its worth noting that after the calamity, the Gridanians spent a week on the battlefield recovering and healing both Eorzean and Garlean soldiers alike and sent the Garleans home. Also none of the citystates are actively looking for war. The closest is with the Kobalds. Garlemald is starting all the wars its causing atrocities in.

You sum up the probem. Garlemald's crimes are recent meaning the issues involving those crimes are current. The thing with Sil'dih and the Autumn War with Ala Mhigo are both over a hundred years in the past. Prior to the lead up to the Calamity and Garlemald's invasion Eorzea was relatively peaceful accept for Ishgard. Further Garlemald is the only one conquering the others. Even the Ishgardians are keeping their issues to themselves and we haven't ignored the things the Ishgardians have done. We have killed quite a few Ishgardians in HW.

There is a fundamental difference between what the Garleans are doing and the city states. The Garleans are starting the wars. They are the ones causing the killing, the violence and the atrocities. If your really expecting Garlemald to be like Ishgard expect us to kill off the extremist leadership and put a more moderate, peace loving leadership in instead.

Speaking on Garlemand. There is some poeple that suspect that could be Gaius ( I that possible? ) based on the mask and that "only garleans hide their faces". I could very wel be Ilberd, that guy is not a fool, he cannot just step into the Ala mhigo resistence specting he will recieve a nice welcome after is very well know that he killed one of his own country men. If I was he, I would use a mask too.

Plot twist - Omega Weapon is used to smite the living hell of Nighogg but then control of the weapon will fall into the wrong hands.

I personally cannot wait until we get into the thick with Garlemald. I'll be at the front kicking their walls down and staring their solders in the eye.

I'll have ten feet of spear I'll be force feeding each and every soldier that gets in my way. This will be done while listening to The Reaper by Blue Oyster Cult. Or "Heroes" By David Bowie. Maybe Heroes will be reserved when we liberate nations taken by Garlemald.

Eh, I don't believe we need to take the fight to Garlemald. Ala Mhigo was conquered fair and square - much like it sought to conquer the rest of Eorzea. 'Liberating' Ala Mhigo isn't necessarily a good thing. It's been quite some time since it was occupied and the people living there are unlikely to want the status quo to change - especially if they've come to befriend or look up to the Garlean stationed there. Let's not forget that there's likely to be a lot of Garlean civilians there too - what are we going to do with them? Kick them out? Force them to adhere to Eorzea's ways?

No. I'd rather the Garlemald situation be far more complex than going after the 'bad guys'. Especially when FF games have a long history of making sympathetic/morally grey antagonists.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Eh, I don't believe we need to take the fight to Garlemald. Ala Mhigo was conquered fair and square - much like it sought to conquer the rest of Eorzea. 'Liberating' Ala Mhigo isn't necessarily a good thing. It's been quite some time since it was occupied and the people living there are unlikely to want the status quo to change - especially if they've come to befriend or look up to the Garlean stationed there. Let's not forget that there's likely to be a lot of Garlean civilians there too - what are we going to do with them? Kick them out? Force them to adhere to Eorzea's ways?

No. I'd rather the Garlemald situation be far more complex than going after the 'bad guys'. Especially when FF games have a long history of making sympathetic/morally grey antagonists.

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That happened like 25 years ago? People still remember how it was before.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

That happened like 25 years ago? People still remember how it was before.

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That's more than enough time for quite a lot of people to grow up in the new Ala Mhigo and embrace the new culture. Plus many of the people kicking up a fuss about Ala Mhigo aren't exactly stellar examples of noble causes.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

That's more than enough time for quite a lot of people to grow up in the new Ala Mhigo and embrace the new culture. Plus many of the people kicking up a fuss about Ala Mhigo aren't exactly stellar examples of noble causes.

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Its not. But well its just an opinion.

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Originally Posted by Frederick22

Its not. But well its just an opinion.

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It is, though. Twenty five years is a pretty long time. Just look at how much our own society changed in the space of 1980 - 2005 as a rough example. Most of the playable races have a similar potential life span to our own, though given how dangerous Eorzea as a whole the life expectancy isn't necessarily great. Yet there's going to be a lot of people who were born into Ala Mhigan society or just generally embraced Garlean rule for various reasons. Many people there - both natives and Garleans alike - are not going to want to be displaced or 'liberated'. Much in the same way as the Ul'dahns and Ishgardian's aren't prepared to do away with the massive quality of life gap between the poor and the rich.

Or at least that is what I hope for, anyway. It's certainly logical and so far the consequences of such things have been explored fairly well - or at least addressed.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

t is, though. Twenty five years is a pretty long time. Just look at how much our own society changed in the space of 1980 - 2005 as a rough example. Most of the playable races have a similar potential life span to our own, though given how dangerous Eorzea as a whole the life expectancy isn't necessarily great. Yet there's going to be a lot of people who were born into Ala Mhigan society or just generally embraced Garlean rule for various reasons. Many people there - both natives and Garleans alike - are not going to want to be displaced or 'liberated'. Much in the same way as the Ul'dahns and Ishgardian's aren't prepared to do away with the massive quality of life gap between the poor and the rich.

Or at least that is what I hope for, anyway. It's certainly logical and so far the consequences of such things have been explored fairly well - or at least addressed.

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Bringing real life evidence doesnt not help so much on a fantasy game, but we clearly saw that the dev team is using real life cultures to made the societies on the game.

Lets make a clear example, the URSS. How many on the countries that were part of it wanted to get free?
Also I dont see how many garlean citizens from another parts would live on ala mhigo, if there are, they are not many.
Despite the ones that where brainshowed, there are a lot that still remember the old ways, a lot that probably are keeping their heads down beacuse they cannot do much about it. If a dictatorship or empire conquers a foreing country, and the native people doesnt not accept it, it will be a long on time, lots of generations until they finally accept it. 25 years its not enought. Its only 1 generation, there has to be more.

But I agree that ala mhigo will brings up a lot of issues, since the WoL will probably deal with lots of factions. The bad garleans, the inocent civil garleans, the ala mhidgans that want and dont want to be free , and the fanatical ala mhidgans that will probably go to any leghts to liberate their homeland.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Eh, I don't believe we need to take the fight to Garlemald. Ala Mhigo was conquered fair and square - much like it sought to conquer the rest of Eorzea. 'Liberating' Ala Mhigo isn't necessarily a good thing. It's been quite some time since it was occupied and the people living there are unlikely to want the status quo to change - especially if they've come to befriend or look up to the Garlean stationed there. Let's not forget that there's likely to be a lot of Garlean civilians there too - what are we going to do with them? Kick them out? Force them to adhere to Eorzea's ways?

No. I'd rather the Garlemald situation be far more complex than going after the 'bad guys'. Especially when FF games have a long history of making sympathetic/morally grey antagonists.

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I don't really get the logic of 'conquered fair and square' and I'm not sure that is even a fair call since basically Garlemald just marched in after the country had been ripped apart from a mad tyrant, only to then have the Garleans put in the boot. Either they took advantage of a crippled military or they instigated the civil unrest which would lay even more horrible things at their feet. By that logic can't we just Liberate it fair and square?

I do think we might have some issues in the Garleans there. One thing though is that Garlean's and the conquered people hold different social standings. Conquered people are a lower class than any Garlean civilians living their who aren't conquered people themselves. Im also not sure why a lot of Garlean civilians would be moving into Ala Mhigo. And for that matter, when it comes to forcing others to adher to their ways, how are the Garleans any better?

The logical reason we would seek to liberate Ala Mhigo is that the Garleans still want to conquer Eorzea. I think the chances of us switching sides and actually helping them do it is extremely low. They are also the most logical foe for the next expansion unless a new group invades from no where as Yoshi P said the Ascians would be taking a more background role for 4.0. Ala Mhigo is a launch point into Eorzea that the Eorzeans cant ignore with repeated attempts by Garlemald to invade.

I get you like the Garleans and I think they have some cool stuff too but you really seem to want to overlook the facts about how bad they are and the reasons we aren't allying with them. I think in the end I'll just have to agree to disagree with you.:P

I think this is a matter of miscommunication. I'm not apologising on behalf of the Garleans, I'm saying that they're really not that bad. I don't really subscribe to the idea that fantasy settings need to mirror the real world in terms of morality, though. Yes, a lot of the stuff that Garlemald is responsible for is absolutely awful by our standards. Yet when applied to Hydaelyn's standards, it's fairly balanced by all the shady stuff that the other nations are doing. Yes, Garlemald is the 'aggressor' but it wasn't so long ago that Ala Mhigo was the 'aggressor'. The Dragonsong War has gone on for a thousand years and all manner of atrocities were committed during that period. Even now it's still going on - whilst the tension with Garlemald has been a very 'recent' thing. Literally about...fifty years, if not less?

Thing is, in their quest to save Hydaelyn, they've effectively helped weakened her significantly through their actions:

1. Nael summoned Dalamud and eventually released Bahamut; resulting in the 7th Umbral Era
2. Gaius excavated Ultima weapon ... who's Ulitma spell ultimately drained most of the little reserves Hydaelyn had.

Even Midgardsomnr (who has a covenant with Hydaelyn herself) did not want the Garleans to be in Silver Tear Lake. It's quite telling that Midgardsomnr will go all out on the Garleans, yet seaming don't do much with the Allagans making CT, that great seal right near where he "slept"

On a side note, isn't ceruleum "liquid aether?" so the Garleans are potentially slowly draining Hydealyn's aether, too ... although the rest of the city states are starting to use ceruleum to fuel airships

Well, to be fair, both Gaius and Nael were acting on their own and received a significant amount of criticism from Garlemald as a whole. It's very likely that Varis and Regula are, again, acting without the full approval of their people. Thus why the succession war was apparently so brutal. If there's another succession war then it's highly likely that a lot of Garleans will want a more moderate approach. I just really don't want to see Garleans as a whole exploited as convenient fodder whenever the WoL needs antagonists that aren't Primals.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

No. I'd rather the Garlemald situation be far more complex than going after the 'bad guys'. Especially when FF games have a long history of making sympathetic/morally grey antagonists.

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I'm sure it is more complex. I'm also aware of the General Leo paradigm - Good guy on the wrong side. I do get that and I am sure that not all citizens of Garlemald are evil or have cruel intentions. They might advocate for the poor and have their own code of honor. At the end of the day, they've chosen their side no matter how cruel their Emperor is - they choose to curry favor on the final word of their leader. I would not go out of my way to strike every single Garlean down in vengeance.

With this being said, no matter how honorable or noble their intent is, if they get in my way, I will run them down.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

Well, to be fair, both Gaius and Nael were acting on their own and received a significant amount of criticism from Garlemald as a whole. It's very likely that Varis and Regula are, again, acting without the full approval of their people. Thus why the succession war was apparently so brutal. If there's another succession war then it's highly likely that a lot of Garleans will want a more moderate approach. I just really don't want to see Garleans as a whole exploited as convenient fodder whenever the WoL needs antagonists that aren't Primals.

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That's not actually correct though - Varius is a dictator who oversees a totalitarian regime and thus the 'will of the people' doesn't even enter into the equation - he simply does whatever he desires and the people have to follow suit or face the consequences. And the War of Succession was because Solus had effectively established this as the normal state of affairs in Garlemald - after all Gaius's weapon Heirsbane was stated as having put down "nine aspirants to the Imperial Crown" - clearly the late Solus was paranoid about his position and purged almost his entire family to ensure his hold on power was total. This meant that when he finally passed away there was no direct successor, thus it became a free for all with high ranking Legatee and those with tenuous family links to the late emperor drawing lines in the sand and fighting each other in an effort to gain control, leading to the War of Succession (by the end of which Varius himself eliminated his own uncle just to gain the crown - by the end there was virtually no one left in Garlemald with the authority or will to oppose him, which is what has made the Eorzean Alliance so worried.)

And, although it's plain to see there are sympathetic Garleans in the game, nearly all of them have long since defected from the Empire and joined the Eorzean Alliance (Cid and members of the Ironworks,

Lucia

, that Juggernaut pilot marooned out in La Noscea) so unless there in an active resistance within Garlemald itself, I doubt we'll see any Garleans within the Empire itself treated as anything other than antagonists, as SE has made quite clear since even before 1.0 launched that the Garlean Empire are nothing but antagonists - a trope well in keeping with FF tradition after all.

I have to agree. The only sympathetic Garleans are the ones that defected and those who still reside Garlemald probably want to make Garlemald back into a republic again (maybe that's that's where the uprising where Lucia and Livia's parents were killed and them sent to be probably re-educated)

Garlemald was a Republic once and 50 years of being an Empire wont erase the history and people who remember that it was once a republic. Most likely the good Garlean's we'll meet (if ever) will be those who tires from the long war and wish to return to a Republic (for the good of all)

I don't sympathise with Cid or Lucia. Yes, they defected - but that simply makes them cowards. They're selling information to Eorzea that is going to get many innocent Garleans killed. What we need is someone like Drace or Gabranth from FFXII - loyal to their homeland and people above all else without selling out either even if they disagree with the methods used by the Emperor and other influential figures.

Reeve from FF7 is another excellent example. He didn't just up and leave Shinra to throw his might behind Cloud fully. He remained loyal to Midgar, working for the greater good of both Midgar and the rest of the planet. Heck, even Shinra - as morally reprehensible as it was - improved immensely. The idea that anyone remotely evil needs to die just makes for an utterly dull story as far as I'm concerned. That we oppose Varis now doesn't mean he can't have a change of heart later or team up with us against a larger threat later.

That'd they're doing this with an Ascian is hopefully a sign that they're willing to do with with some prominent Garleans too - without the need for the awful 'defector' trope to be brought up. I don't want to align with Garlean traitors. I want to align with Garleans who are loyal to their people and homeland but recognise that some changes need to be made.

What innocent Garleans? Eorzea hasn't been attacking Garlean lands except for military bases often built on Eorzean land. If your part of an invading army you are by definition, not innocent.

However I agree it would be good to see moderate Garleans who haven't just switched sides. We have heard that there are factions in Garlemald and while Varis holds complete power and the public in Garlemald seems to currently support the expansionist agenda, it doesn't mean that there aren't groups who disagree with Garlemald's current approach.

Still, even if we do meet moderate Garleans in 4.0, I still expect Garlemald as a whole to be the main antagonist in the way Nidhogg currently is.

Back on the original topic:

Omega is a gigantic war machine created by Allag, currently a scrap heap buried in Cartenau. There is no way it could be excavated and refurbished into a functional state without the Alliance noticing; furthermore, the only people who could do so all (likely) have moral objections to doing so.

So, the chances of Ilberd hijacking it are slim to none.

Attacking another nation in a war doesn't suddenly make every single member of that nation or army 'evil', though. Especially when the war is caused over a genuine conflict of interests. Yes, Garlemald is the aggressor - but we don't know the full extent of their reasoning and we do know that Eorzea is far from flawless itself.

How many of the Garlean soldiers slain during this war were just following orders, I wonder? How many were killed believing that their cause was righteous? How many of those killed during the assault upon Garlean bases were non-combatants or medics that simply wanted to protect their comrades and friends? Heck, there's a quest in Western Coerthas that shows that even the Dravanians - previously thought to be mindless drones at Nidhogg's command - kept mementos of their fallen in a manner similar to what our side did.

There's a precedent for conflicts in this setting to not be black or white, even if they initially seem that way at first glance. I'd say it's far, far more likely that Garlemald as a whole isn't all that bad - including the invading forces - than Garlemald as a whole being irredeemable. If we're lucky then the developers will choose to explore that more in-depth at some point in the future, especially when Garlean plot points start to gather more momentum.

As an aside, though? War isn't pretty - and it is by no means as simple as the 'aggressor' being the 'bad guys'. That's just something civilians are fed to make them feel better about sending loyal men and women to die on the battlefield and experience the horrors of war themselves. So I'm inclined to drop this particular discussion due to clearly viewing it in a much different light than most people here.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

How many of the Garlean soldiers slain during this war were just following orders, I wonder?

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Take a page from real life; how many Nazis that killed millions of people in the death camps were just "following orders"?

No, "following orders" isn't an excuse, and doesn't make you some innocent victim.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

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How many of the Garlean soldiers slain during this war were just following orders, I wonder?

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This is a war, Thedric. On a war people follow orders from their superiors. This does not change the fact on who is the agressor and who has the blame. The garleans started with full agression and no merci for the conquered people.

When a dictatorship is on the power and wants to start a war of conquer, there isnt so much of what can be done.

Was the Germany different on the 2nd world war?

Despite all, its probable we will sure find our Coronel Staufbenverg, aka garlean version.