Thordan's Reign and Containment Bay S1T7 (Extreme)

Am I correct in understand these fights are like T9 (maze of instant death attacks)? If so, that's troubling. Very very troubling.

thordan is not hard at all, once you learn the mechanics. as far as containment bay, idk i havent been in there

In terms of fun factor alone I've found these are the two best fights they've introduced in quite a long time ♪

And yes, just about everything is a one-hit kill if done wrong in Sephirot EX.

These are godlike beings that could one shot you at their leisure. I'm happy that they rather flick, poke us, and forewarn us with pretty markers on the floor about impending doom rather than one shot us the second the duty commences.

Most mechanics if done correctly will not result in a one hit kill. If for some reason you're falling off the arena in Sephirot or walking into the wall in Thordan, I guess that counts as a one hit kill.

These fights you mentioned are generally considered to be some of the best designed fights in the game.

Why is it "Very very troubling"?
Fun is troubling?

OP makes my head hurt.

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These fights you mentioned are generally considered to be some of the best designed fights in the game.

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Which is pretty sad if that's the case. If I wanted to play a game where the slightest misstep meant "you lose, do it over again", I'd go play IWBTG.

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

Why is it "Very very troubling"?
Fun is troubling?

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OP wrote several threads awhile back about how T9 was too hard and should be nerfed.

inb4 he writes similar ones for Thordan's Reign and Sephirot EX.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Which is pretty sad if that's the case. If I wanted to play a game where the slightest misstep meant "you lose, do it over again", I'd go play IWBTG.

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They call them "Extreme" for a very good reason. These fights are entirely scripted. Once you learn the phases and start farming them, they are actually really fun.

Fights that take 5 minutes of memory match mechanics or you wipe of one misstep before getting to the actual fighting part doesn't sound like much fun. I speak as a BLM. And these fights have a lot of movement which is a BLM's bane unless Scathe is your thing.

I'd try Thordan again but that Ring of Death gets me every time or the divebomb portion would just kill me. But maybe my current gear at the time just wasn't ready for it.

They are fun to watch though. And the music is good. But that's about it.

They can be fun but if you don't have a coordinated group and rely on PUG's then you can just forget it.

I hope those trial never get nerf. What's the point adding the "Extreme" word if it's only "meh" mechanic?

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They call them "Extreme" for a very good reason.

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Whorleater (Hard) was never ever "hard" to begin with, so I don't know why you use that as a defense.

Pure mechanic fights beat the hell out of strict DPS timer fights by a mile in fun factor.

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Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Fights that take 5 minutes of memory match mechanics or you wipe of one misstep before getting to the actual fighting part doesn't sound like much fun. I speak as a BLM. And these fights have a lot of movement which is a BLM's bane unless Scathe is your thing.

I'd try Thordan again but that Ring of Death gets me every time or the divebomb portion would just kill me. But maybe my current gear at the time just wasn't ready for it.

They are fun to watch though. And the music is good. But that's about it.

They can be fun but if you don't have a coordinated group and rely on PUG's then you can just forget it.

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Speaking personally as a BLM finding out how to do your entire rotation without breaking it and doing all the mechanics is the most fun part of these fights, and if i had to rank which fights are "The best in the game" it would be:

1. A3s
2. T9
3. Sephirot ex
4. Thoridan ex
...

These are all pretty movement intensive fights but after a while in them you learn where to sneak in all your casts and that's the fun part.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

OP wrote several threads awhile back about how T9 was too hard and should be nerfed.

inb4 he writes similar ones for Thordan's Reign and Sephirot EX.

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But T9 is fun D:

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Which is pretty sad if that's the case. If I wanted to play a game where the slightest misstep meant "you lose, do it over again", I'd go play IWBTG.

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Then don't play the "extreme" version of the fights. You can have your hm ones. If you don't like challanging fights don't do them. What's pretty sad to me is the amount of people who think putting mechanics with consequences in a fight is a bad thing. If you feel like standing around and beating on something, the perfect game for you can be found in Stone, Sea, Sky.

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Originally Posted by AskaRay

But T9 is fun D:

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I gotta disagree there, I don't enjoy waiting around for half a fight. >.>

If it was all as hectic as the last phase though I'd agree.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Which is pretty sad if that's the case. If I wanted to play a game where the slightest misstep meant "you lose, do it over again", I'd go play IWBTG.

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Why are you playing this game then?

Do you realize how many fights in this game have one shot mechanics?

I mean seriously dude, even the new DUNGEON has a one shot mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Slappah

Why are you playing this game then?

Do you realize how many fights in this game have one shot mechanics?

I mean seriously dude, even the new DUNGEON has a one shot mechanic.

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personally i prefer fight like midas 4 and it have barely any one shoot mechanic. even the tank buster or the double laser are not a true one shoot mechanic, a one shoot mechanic will destroy the whole raid. and is not because we don't like the overuse of this mechanic that we don't have the right to love the game. like the time where they have place enrage on every fight.

but i want to say one thing, we must'nt forget that the dev team haven't get new employee for age... and sooner or later they will run in circle or do mistake.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

personally i prefer fight like midas 4 and it have barely any one shoot mechanic. even the tank buster or the double laser are not a true one shoot mechanic, a one shoot mechanic will destroy the whole raid. and is not because we don't like the overuse of this mechanic that we don't have the right to love the game. like the time where they have place enrage on every fight.

but i want to say one thing, we must'nt forget that the dev team haven't get new employee for age... and sooner or later they will run in circle or do mistake.

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One shot mechanic isn't killing the whole raid

A one shot mechanic is anything that will one shot someone if done wrong

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Which is pretty sad if that's the case. If I wanted to play a game where the slightest misstep meant "you lose, do it over again", I'd go play IWBTG.

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what is fun then? Roflstomp mode where you ignore the mechanics? Those are called Hard and Normal actually. Go and do those instead.

hmmm maybe, i will conceide it, even if the fact that they overuse this mechanic is not new, it was pointed a lot before. but like said, they aren't that many that work on this and get a new exciting raid ready every 3-6 month is something quite amazing.

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Originally Posted by mirta000

what is fun then? Roflstomp mode where you ignore the mechanics? Those are called Hard and Normal actually. Go and do those instead.

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personally like i have said, i had a blast with midas 4 fight. it was really interesting and thrilling to do it.

These fights suck. DPS race fights are the best.

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

Am I correct in understand these fights are like T9 (maze of instant death attacks)? If so, that's troubling. Very very troubling.

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If we had more fights with the quality of T9 this would be a much better game. Not calling it bad, that just happens to be one of if not the best made fight in the game.

I love Thordan ex and have found once you gasped up to and after meteors it's fairly simple concept. I found it the same with T9, once you get pass the meteors it gets a little easier, in my opinion anyways.

I haven't tried Sephiro Ex yet but if it's anything like the other too I am really excited as love how those fights have be panned out ^^

OP do what everyone else does, and learn the fight. There is no point putting a fight into the game at end game raid level that doesnt require the members of the team to learn the fight. Once you learn the fight, the mechanics are not much of a threat.

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

Whorleater (Hard) was never ever "hard" to begin with, so I don't know why you use that as a defense.

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Which is less a problem with Extreme meaning Extreme, and more a problem with Hard not meaning Hard. If you look back at the original trio of HMs, they were significantly more punishing at the standard ilvl at the time. From Levi on, "HM"s were put in the MSQ and made easy enough that anyone could pass them in 1-3 attempts. The problem is that the development team didn't want to create 3 seperate fights (NM -> HM -> EX like in 2.0) so they just got rid of HM and renamed NM.

Extremes are midcore content. Seph EX was created by the guy responsible for Titan EX, so if we follow this train of thought then memorizing the pattern (as you did with Titan EX) will result in you not getting 1-shot (which is the case, and is technically the case for every other fight to varying levels). Learn when to do what and you'll have an easy time - if you have memorization problems, get on teamspeak/mumble/etc with the people you're running with and have someone call out mechanics.

First of all, "One Shot" is not the same thing as "Insta Wipe".

Secondly, there's nothing wrong with the EXTREME fights being unforgiving in terms of mechanics. That's the entire point. I would much rather see a ton of mechanics that I have to figure out than having to push DPS like crazy. There's a reason why Gordias Savage as a raid tier was generally disliked and why Midas Savage seems to be having the exact opposite reactions from the hardcore portion of the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Slappah

One shot mechanic isn't killing the whole raid

A one shot mechanic is anything that will one shot someone if done wrong

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I personally consider a one shot mechanic something that if messed up, can and will lead to a wipe. Midas 3 and the cat hearts for example, at 2 stacks you're likely going to be one shot by his AoE.

I enjoyed both Thordan and Sephirot. Sephirot less so, but mostly because the first phase is incredibly dull to repeat during practice runs. I had to mute the music because of how it was wearing on me. lol

Mechanically speaking, the fights punish derps, but how not-to-derp is pretty easy to figure out.

Thordan is mostly a fast paced dance of mechanics, once you get them down, executing Thordan himself isn't too hard, the last few phases are mostly about placement, fun fight, although quite tough to get down.

Me and my friends are fighting Sephirot at the moment, it takes a while to learn, especially them circles in the first phase, but we are coming up with our own ways to deal with them and are consistently making it to Powerman5000 stage of the fight, its fun, but man does it punish fuck ups harshly.

I would say T9 was harder when it first came out, Thordan took me a while because I didn't have a static to get it down and never bothered with pf to do it, we think we can get Sephy down next week or the next, T9 took ages to overcome.

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what is fun then? Roflstomp mode where you ignore the mechanics? Those are called Hard and Normal actually. Go and do those instead.

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It's like the people on this forum don't know the definition of a happy medium.

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Seph EX was created by the guy responsible for Titan EX,

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Titan Extreme was a dreadful fight for me as well, probably still would be if I were to defy the odds and get it in mentor roulette nowadays, and I'm sure I'm not the only one around with that opinion :/

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Originally Posted by Fynlar

It's like the people on this forum don't know the definition of a happy medium.

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Thordan and Sephirot are in that happy medium range for some people though.
They aren't faceroll easy like dungeons, void ark, hard mode primals...etc., but they certainly aren't savage level.

It sounds like you're upset because they don't meet your definition of a happy medium.

SE can't please everyone.

Thordan wasn't that one-shotty....miss the conviction towers and you can still win, especially with Selene's AOE cleanse (I'm pretty sure that worked? Haven't done it in a while). Can get hit by the expanding Ballast-like aoe and still live and kill meteors. Can stand in an ice puddle and still survive. Dragon's Gaze, as long as you don't run into the wall it's endurable (just don't keep doing it, or be the MT). There a few parts when not handled correctly can wipe, usually involving coordination, but every extreme has those. They wouldn't be extreme otherwise.

Practice makes perfect. If the groups you join are on the same page knowing what parts each person is familiar with there shouldn't be an issue. No one likes being responsible for wiping in fights like these, but it happens to even the most "elite" players.

Do... you want to just get a slap of HP if you mess up? That the healer will heal up no problem?

Should tank busters not hit for more then tank HP so that they don't get one shot if they mess up mitigating it?

How exactly do you want any measure of difficulty if the penalties for messing up aren't harsh?

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Originally Posted by Slappah

Why are you playing this game then?

Do you realize how many fights in this game have one shot mechanics?

I mean seriously dude, even the new DUNGEON has a one shot mechanic.

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Very few are an endless gauntlet of team jump rope. Which, I should add, is not something Stone Sea Sky let's you practice at all, leading to restrictions on learning parties.

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

Very few are an endless gauntlet of team jump rope. Which, I should add, is not something Stone Sea Sky let's you practice at all, leading to restrictions on learning parties.

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"Extreme"

Not

"Novice"


Also, there are no restrictions on parties, since you can make your own.

Let's hope no one from Square Enix sees this thread and even more good fights get ruined the way Steps of Faith, T6-8 etc were.

OP, the zero likes on your opening post should hopefully clue you in that very few share your awful viewpoint. Nerfs and catering to casuals have done enough damage to the game as it is. By now, 95% of the content is a snoozefest and most of the remaining 5% is completely inaccessible to anyone without a raiding static. Thordan EX and Seph EX is currently the ONLY fun content for good players who don't have a static.