Bitter White Mages

I know it's really bad stereotyping but it feels like every time someone has a problem with how I'm playing (like I just had one get all rude because I was using Diurnal), they're a White Mage, and I ran this by people in my company and they notice White Mages tend to be meaner and commanding when it comes to raids and healing, what's the deal qwq

Easy solution, don't use diurnal when you're with a white mage. Literally no reason to, noct is made to compliment white mage in 8 man comps.

I can see the confusion because of all the threads saying nocturnal is garbage, some people might hesitate to use it, not realizing that their shield combined with a wm's regen is a pretty nice bit of mitigation.

I confess, I have a gripe with Astrologians. Even with a close friend of mine who mains AST. It's a problem with the class itself, with all the buffs they get and with all the complaints I still see (people were actually complaining about LA buff, like, Jesus Christ isn't 24 seconds of refresh enough for you?). I try not to let this influence my ingame etiquette, but I'll probably think less before calling an AST out than a Scholar or a fellow WHM.

You only see white mages being "bitter" because you aren't using nocturnal with scholars. Try that and you'll see the times you'll get the boot from instances.

Personally i only care about what asts are using when it comes to places where mitigation is actually useful, otherwise double HoTs don't really matter.

Really? I never use noct with scholars and I've never been told anything. I just use the opposite of what the other healer is using, hot's or shields. If that is wrong then I learned something new.

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Originally Posted by Shug

Really? I never use noct with scholars and I've never been told anything. I just use the opposite of what the other healer is using, hot's or shields. If that is wrong then I learned something new.

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Questionable wording, they were saying you will see bitter scholars instead if you use noct with a scholar.

I don't see how using Diurnal when you're paired with a White Mage is bad at all, in fact, it's a completely different set of circumstances. Nocturnal completely cancels Adloquium, which is awful because Adloquium is so much stronger. Diurnal has absolutely no effect on a White Mage's skills and the Regen even stacks. Besides, MP management is so much easier when you're using Diurnal just because you don't have to heal as often, while in Nocturnal those shields shatter within the next move or so.

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Originally Posted by mp-please

You only see white mages being "bitter" because you aren't using nocturnal with scholars. Try that and you'll see the times you'll get the boot from instances.

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This. I admit I get very bitter when the AST is in Noct when I'm on SCH. I don't really care what you do when I'm on WHM.

Well one thing to remember when comparing Diurnal and Nocturnal. Yes shields are nice and if I heal for 2000 then it's a 2600 barrier. On the other hand Diurnal regen is 1100 a tick for 18s. So more healing without having to recast. Diurnal also gives AST a 5% Attack speed buff which is better for dps than a 5% healing buff that Nocturnal does. As much as we want Noct to be good paired with WHM it's really not.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Easy solution, don't use diurnal when you're with a white mage. Literally no reason to, noct is made to compliment white mage in 8 man comps.

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If you're DPSing you use Duirnal >.>, tell the WHM to level AST so he learns about Duirnal and Nocturnal.
I just had a AST in Midas 3 who didn't turn Duirnal on for DPS, nor did he pop Cleric Stance >.>. Bad healers no matter what imo.

Why would a scholar get frustrated with diurnal? If you went into everything as nocturnal, would you be making the same thread about scholars?

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Originally Posted by Chiramu

I just had a AST in Midas 3 who didn't turn Duirnal on for DPS, nor did he pop Cleric Stance >.>. Bad healers no matter what imo.

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Perhaps s/he hadn't leveled a WHM?^^
Saw so much of DRK and AST who haven't leveled any other class/job out of the Tank or healer role to get some necessary cross class skills.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Easy solution, don't use diurnal when you're with a white mage. Literally no reason to, noct is made to compliment white mage in 8 man comps.

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WHM is dead: Have fun catching up with 315 potency (Aspected) Helios, a 20% steroid every 90 seconds and a bubble people still seem to be anxious to move into every 90 seconds. Meanwhile, SCH has Eos and Indom. Meanwhile, Diurnal has 600 potency Aspected Helios and the same steroid + bubble. If you don't need the shields and don't use the comfort of the shields, there's no reason to go Nocturnal regardless healing partner. Just tell the WHM to stop overhealing like their life depends on it.

To be honest, even though I'm a 60 whm, I consider myself a complete noob (because I've only played 1 class and I've only played for a couple of months). I really don't understand the other healers classes. However, I haven't really seen any good SCH/AST doing anything that has impressed me. I hardly see anyone help with group heals (unless I'm with another WHM), and I've never been in a group where a SCH or AST has made a clutch save (on someone in the party). It's always been me or another WHM who has saved people.

In short, I don't care what an AST does in my group. I keep the heals flowing while I stance dance and DD when appropriate.

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Originally Posted by BeautifulNerf

To be honest, even though I'm a 60 whm, I consider myself a complete noob (because I've only played 1 class and I've only played for a couple of months). I really don't understand the other healers classes. However, I haven't really seen any good SCH/AST doing anything that has impressed me. I hardly see anyone help with group heals (unless I'm with another WHM), and I've never been in a group where a SCH or AST has made a clutch save (on someone in the party). It's always been me or another WHM who has saved people.

In short, I don't care what an AST does in my group. I keep the heals flowing while I stance dance and DD when appropriate.

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And I've seen tons of WHM do nothing but spam Medica II and not use any of their post-50 healing skills. Your point? Bads will be bads.

I agree with your general consensus, though - who cares what role someone is when they're failing at it/harassing others/generally being a buttpain? Correlation =/= causation. I'm no more a jerk when I play WHM than when I play AST, and vice-versa.

http://i1376.photobucket.com/albums/...pscvgyamdl.gif

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

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For being so analytical. Here's a cookie!

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Originally Posted by Cyrocco

Nocturnal completely cancels Adloquium, which is awful because Adloquium is so much stronger.

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Is it?
Adloquium is 300 potency and shield for 100%. Meaning 300 potency shield.
Nocturnal Aspected Benefic is 262 potency and 130% shield (accounting the Nocturnal 5% bonus). Meaning 340 potency shield.

As I see it, Adlo heals ~40 potency more but AB shield is ~40 potency stronger (which is better in the situation you're talking about).

Are my maths completly wrong on this one or are people underestimating Nocturnal Aspected Benefic's power?

Obviously, I'm not talking about a lucky crit from Adloquium, which completly crushes AB, no question about it...
But let's also not forget that AB is instant cast, which is a very handy thing too.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Is it?
Adloquium is 300 potency and shield for 100%. Meaning 300 potency shield.
Nocturnal Aspected Benefic is 262 potency and 130% shield (accounting the Nocturnal 5% bonus). Meaning 340 potency shield.

As I see it, Adlo heals ~40 potency more but AB shield is ~40 potency stronger (which is better in the situation you're talking about).

Are my maths completly wrong on this one or are people underestimating Nocturnal Aspected Benefic's power?

Obviously, I'm not talking about a lucky crit from Adloquium, which completly crushes AB, no question about it...
But let's also not forget that AB is instant cast, which is a very handy thing too.

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Unfortunately, a lot of players lack the raid awareness to realize there has been a Crit Adlo, let alone a Crit Adlo that has been Deployed to the entire group in lieu of a big raid hit. Nothing is more frustrating to have that overridden with an Aspected Benefic / Helios when you popped a lot of resources to make it happen. Best to avoid the potential conflict in general, I think.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Unfortunately, a lot of players lack the raid awareness to realize there has been a Crit Adlo, let alone a Crit Adlo that has been Deployed to the entire group in lieu of a big raid hit. Nothing is more frustrating to have that overridden with an Aspected Benefic / Helios when you popped a lot of resources to make it happen. Best to avoid the potential conflict in general, I think.

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Is there any way to tell that a person is wearing a crit aldo?

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

Unfortunately, a lot of players lack the raid awareness to realize there has been a Crit Adlo, let alone a Crit Adlo that has been Deployed to the entire group in lieu of a big raid hit. Nothing is more frustrating to have that overridden with an Aspected Benefic / Helios when you popped a lot of resources to make it happen. Best to avoid the potential conflict in general, I think.

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Oh yeah, of course. This situation is exactly the one which makes me want that the shield effect should only be replaced if the new one provides more shield.

But whatever the case, I wouldn't want to run in Nocturnal with a SCH anyway (except maybe for very specific cases where my raid healer (SCH) would want me to... but as you said, that require raid awareness). I was just comparing Adlo and N.AB.

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Originally Posted by Ragology

Is there any way to tell that a person is wearing a crit aldo?

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Only at the very moment when the big green crit number is displayed on the screen. Otherwise, no. The buff icon isn't different and nothing else would tell you.
Even the SCH himself can completly miss that he did a crit Adlo if he didn't pay attention to his own number.

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Originally Posted by Ragology

Is there any way to tell that a person is wearing a crit aldo?

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No. Your only options are the flying text or the logs, I think. Your best bet, in my opinion, is to watch out for the whole party getting galvanized and you not seeing the Succor animations. That probably means the Scholar recognized a critical heal and used Deployment Tactics.

It's just my opinion but people who are rude to healers (especially those who behave aggressively towards Astrologians) when they are doing their job perfectly fine need to get over themselves. And my advice to the OP is ignore them and play the game in the way that makes you happy, not other people.

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Originally Posted by Ragology

Is there any way to tell that a person is wearing a crit aldo?

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Not really, to be honest raid awareness is probably the wrong word to use. Given the amount of chaos that normally ensues in any given fight, unless you're on a voice chat program with said SCH its probably best in general to avoid Nocturnal AST when paired with a SCH to prevent any ire.

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Originally Posted by BloodPact

That probably means the Scholar recognized a critical heal and used Deployment Tactics.

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Deployment Tactics isn't randomly used with a fight just because you had a Critdlo, ever. First of all, the group must be pretty closely stacked for DT, and secondly, it's often used for specific mechanics which cause heavy spike damage, such as the Ultimates in pretty much every Primal fight, and especially for the latter, the deployed Adlo is usually buffed severely by being cast on a WAR in Defiance popping Convalescence, for 5-7k shields on the whole group without crits (I've seen 14k shields from Critdlos being deployed in Thordan Ex) - which you never rely on. I don't think you can reach this level of shielding even with a crit N.AH under Synastry.

I really don't dislike Nocturnal Sect. In fact, I want to like it very badly. But it doesn't replace a SCH, and likely never will.

Last night I was tanking in A6 and got a Scholar and Astrologian. The Astrologian was comfortably standing in Nocturnal Sect, but the Scholar didn't tell her anything at the time. The other tank was obviously new to the instance, and, understandably, kept messing up the tank swaps, sometimes letting me die to vulnerabilities, or sometimes just killing the whole party by trying to soak the solo cannon. The Noct Astrologian started giving the other tank so much shit. Like, report-worthy shit. Then the Scholar asked why she was in Nocturnal Sect, and the Astrologian responded "Mind your own damn business." Someone even tried vote dismissing the AST, but people refused, and even the other Tank defended her saying it wasn't fair.

Then, the AST vote dismissed the other Tank after she accidentally returned instead of accepting a Raise, and people kicked actually kicked the tank out of the instance. I left the instance at that moment. Hope to never run into that person ever again.

By the OP's standards, my current gripe is with Astrologians XD. Even though my best friend mains AST, the amount of likeable or non-jerk ASTs I've found in DF can be counted on one hand.

All these people thinking an AST can't do any sort of stance dancing D:.

I may sound bias because I'm a White mage myself, but usually it's the Scholars when I go into full party or raids who are bossy and rude.

I can count how many times I healed with an AST with one hand since 2.0 so all my experience is with SCH being the co-healer. I find that since I'm the main healer of the group I'm usually the one that has to fix a problem if someone messes up, most of the time I know exactly why the problem happened in the first place. Since WHM needs to precast and we don't have an endless supply of MP we feel it the most.

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Originally Posted by Igneel

I may sound bias because I'm a White mage myself, but usually it's the Scholars when I go into full party or raids who are bossy and rude.

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This is my experience as well. But I've seen it from a few co-healer WHMs as well.

Well, let's be honest.. this is highly situation sensitive. WHM uses raw power healing/damage, but AST can choose to have scholar like effect. It would be wise for you to use shield effect, this is just to prevent over healing and waste mana.

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Originally Posted by AngelicSence

Well, let's be honest.. this is highly situation sensitive. WHM uses raw power healing/damage, but AST can choose to have scholar like effect. It would be wise for you to use shield effect, this is just to prevent over healing and waste mana.

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I forgot to add: + everything I said above.. aside from that, this game is designed so that you can complete any 8 man content with any healer job. So there is really nothing wrong with AST players using any sect they like.. However, I think we should all keep in mind that not everyone play smart.. I could make a mistake and that might be a wipe of my group... so, what can I do about it. We shouldn't blame those who argue like what happened to OP. Because while almost anything is acceptable... there are certain things that are better and efficent.

If I have a nocturnal stance astro in my party when I scholar, I take it as if they're telling me that I can dps 100% of the fight, as the only reason to Night stance is for solo healing, or there are two astros.

For most content it isn't too much of an issue with whm + diurnal and sch + nocturnal, but you have to understand the problems with it. Double regens are great but in cases of tank buster mechanics, that can over stress both healers and tank, possible long CD pop like benediction or living dead. In cases of double shields, not only the overwrite but the aoe healing and resources used to cover it. At the end of day, if no one dies to lack of healing + mitigation that is fine, but do not expect it every time. As mentioned above sect switching was designed to cover what the other healer lacks.

I'm not even sure what the point of this thread is, other than to indiscriminately bash a segment of the player base. Reported.

There hasn't been any bashing so good luck with that. My problem is mainly with White Mages because they're the only ones to demand I play in Nocturnal. This isn't for bashing . White Mages are the only class I can have problems with because I have stances that are "complimentary" to them. The bitter ones just demand I play a certain way.

Anyway, I find it really frustrating that not only have the nerve to demand that I play a certain way, but then they get so offended when I refuse. I will say that I've never had a Scholar demand I play a certain stance, because when I'm in Diurnal there's no conflict. White Mages demand I play in Nocturnal before we've even started a raid or they've seen how it works out, which I really don't understand because there's still no conflict. And then have the nerve to say it could've gone better if I was in Nocturnal and it was a perfect clear.

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Originally Posted by Cyrocco

There hasn't been any bashing so good luck with that. My problem is mainly with White Mages because they're the only ones to demand I play in Nocturnal. This isn't for bashing . White Mages are the only class I can have problems with because I have stances that are "complimentary" to them. The bitter ones just demand I play a certain way.

Anyway, I find it really frustrating that not only have the nerve to demand that I play a certain way, but then they get so offended when I refuse. I will say that I've never had a Scholar demand I play a certain stance, because when I'm in Diurnal there's no conflict. White Mages demand I play in Nocturnal before we've even started a raid or they've seen how it works out, which I really don't understand because there's still no conflict. And then have the nerve to say it could've gone better if I was in Nocturnal and it was a perfect clear.

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Do you play in nocturnal with scholars?

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Originally Posted by FaizeD

I'm not even sure what the point of this thread is, other than to indiscriminately bash a segment of the player base. Reported.

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He s not bashing a segment of the community.

He s saying that he has a lot of issues with WHM co healers due to misunderstandings and misconceptions about the AST stances.

I can feel his pain as i had the same kind of difficulties as a DRK. Imho the new jobs are not very well understood my people who stuck with their main from the 2.0. Sometimes it is difficult to coexist.

You shouldnt do abusive reports just because you cant read.

My 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Do you play in nocturnal with scholars?

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As I said, there isn't a conflict. Nocturnal voids Adloquium. Diurnal doesn't have any affect on White Mage skills. You're trying to support an invalid argument by fabricating a problem.

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Originally Posted by FaizeD

I'm not even sure what the point of this thread is, other than to indiscriminately bash a segment of the player base. Reported.

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It's natural to react when someone being mean to you. He is simply telling his story when teaming up with WHMs. He said white mages tent to argue. That is not an attack on player base or anything close. I think enought players answered his question at this point. Reporting is meaningless.