Potential future astrologian tweaks.

First let me say I love my class. Very much. Unfortunately me loving it doesn't make everyone else. The main complaints I hear are less range for helios(aspected). And of course not enough dps.

For the range issue...what if we could "throw" our helios. To emanate from our target instead of ourselves. Keep the range, potency etc. Just make it act like an expanded card. So that we could stand in the middle of say....a4, and during nisi throw a helios on the tank and hit everyone while staying out of range of passing the debuff. Just an idea...but it also gives us something unique that the other healers don't get.

For the dps...that's harder. But an idea someone had...what if we let celestial opposition act like bane? And pass our dots to nearby enemies? Or even just a simple rework of spear. To reduce the cool down of abilities ALREADY ON COOLDOWN. That wouldn't do much to help our dps, but it would help overall raid dps.

Again, just ideas. Don't kill me. Thoughts?

Well DPS should be increased via Card buffs. I did SSS Bismark EX and with The Balance Extended and a arrow I really didn't see a difference. Maybe a few seconds off non card test run.

I'm not going to kill you, but really?! The only healer to get buffs and you're already asking for more? Can you please justify why Astrologians should get more DPS when it has nothing to do with their primary role and SE are even clearly trying to move away from that. Just look at tanks right now.

No they do not need more DPS, and ranged heals are always 15y, only Medica 2 is the exception. Can we let White Mages retain something at least? The job is fine and you don't need absolutely everything on it, that's when imbalances occur.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ologian-tweaks

Why make another thread?

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Originally Posted by Kabzy

I'm not going to kill you, but really?! The only healer to get buffs and you're already asking for more? Can you please justify why Astrologians should get more DPS when it has nothing to do with their primary role and SE are even clearly trying to move away from that. Just look at tanks right now.

No they do not need more DPS, and ranged heals are always 15y, only Medica 2 is the exception. Can we let White Mages retain something at least? The job is fine and you don't need absolutely everything on it, that's when imbalances occur.

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I said I like it as is...But I get told "eww, astro...no. You can't do progression...wait til it's on farm" and a lot of people want it to have more....those were just ideas.

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Originally Posted by Anyendryyl

I said I like it as is...But I get told "eww, astro...no. You can't do progression...wait til it's on farm" and a lot of people want it to have more....those were just ideas.

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Meanwhile a few hours earlier with me on Astrologian: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3590775

Thanks for posting that. I never had any doubts that astro could do it. Just shit people and the prejudices. Anyjew, thanks again.

If anyone is not taking an AST over a WHM because of "previous stigma", then they don't realize how much AST has changed since it's release. Both WHM and AST have very comparable kits now. In fact, in my own personal view, the latest string of buffs would put AST ahead of WHM for a progression group. I feel AST now has better MP management than WHM, have DPS spells that do not require Accuracy, can buff their group DPS, and output a very similar level of healing as a WHM.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

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Agree with this completely. The groups that the OP has approached clearly have no clue about healing in end game. I personally thought AST was the best main healer pre-patch, so now there's even less doubt in my mind. They can do everything a WHM can and still buff on top of that. Yes WHM still has the 'strongest' heals, but when raids aren't requiring them it makes that advantage completely obsolete.

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Originally Posted by Kabzy

Agree with this completely. The groups that the OP has approached clearly have no clue about healing in end game. I personally thought AST was the best main healer pre-patch, so now there's even less doubt in my mind. They can do everything a WHM can and still buff on top of that. Yes WHM still has the 'strongest' heals, but when raids aren't requiring them it makes that advantage completely obsolete.

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It depends which healer slot they are going for. If its the main healer/whm/diurnal astrologian slot then the people saying "lol ast" are idiots. If its the nocturnal astrologian/sch slot then well thats another story. I am busy trying out nocturnal astrologian and sch in the current raid content (after raiding as sch from 2.0-3.1) and can quite honestly say that healing is never and issue with N.AST, but the expected dps output of the non-whm healer is still a little lacking.

Also OP, AST range is a non issue. Medica II radius is an exception, not a rule.

CO spreading dots is neat and all but the spell is basically stopping time.

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Originally Posted by Ghishlain

If anyone is not taking an AST over a WHM because of "previous stigma", then they don't realize how much AST has changed since it's release. Both WHM and AST have very comparable kits now. In fact, in my own personal view, the latest string of buffs would put AST ahead of WHM for a progression group. I feel AST now has better MP management than WHM, have DPS spells that do not require Accuracy, can buff their group DPS, and output a very similar level of healing as a WHM.

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This alone is enough !
Anyone saying that the AST is not strong enough to handle à group has never seen a real one in action !

About the noct issue...
It's more than the AST got a huge healing output and SCH got a strong crit shield (tank taking 0 damage is a pleasure)
Otherwise it's the same. Both are great to use.

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Now in raid I laugh my Ass off when I see whm struggling with mana when I have too much on my own
24sec LA is god !!!!

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Originally Posted by Nekotee

About the noct issue...
It's more than the AST got a huge healing output and SCH got a strong crit shield (tank taking 0 damage is a pleasure)
Otherwise it's the same. Both are great to use.

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SCH is (probably) the most efficient healer when it comes to global cooldown management.
N.AST is incredibly inefficient with global cooldowns in comparison.

It can make a difference in raids.

Yes, I guess I should clarify my content - it was aimed towards Diurnal ASTs trying to get the main healer position and competing against WHMs for that position and not towards Noct ASTs trying to get the off heal position. WHM/AST compositions should still be fairly rare so that shouldn't be an issue for most groups though.

I really don't think it's possible to create WHM/AST comps with Noct AST as currently designed, no matter how many buffs it's given. It will need a near-full overhaul of how all the abilities work while in Nocturnal Stance in order to have a chance at knocking SCH off its throne, and it's quite clear that SE isn't in any rush to redesign the job.

Well, either that or an additional supplement to WHM to make IT the off-healer and let AST/WHM comps become a thing. Regardless of the solution, it'll require significant dev time to rework WHM or N.AST to have the barest hope of replacing a SCH. Until then, SCH mains rejoice, you are mandatory.

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Originally Posted by Anyendryyl

First let me say I love my class. Very much. Unfortunately me loving it doesn't make everyone else. The main complaints I hear are less range for helios(aspected). And of course not enough dps.

For the range issue...what if we could "throw" our helios. To emanate from our target instead of ourselves. Keep the range, potency etc. Just make it act like an expanded card. So that we could stand in the middle of say....a4, and during nisi throw a helios on the tank and hit everyone while staying out of range of passing the debuff. Just an idea...but it also gives us something unique that the other healers don't get.
Thoughts?

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I think White mages AOE heal bonus range is meant to be its edge compared to other AOE heals, much like how Scholars Crit Shield strength is supposed to be its edge compared to other sheilds.

In phantasy star online there were 4 dedicated magic wielding classes and even though they could all use the same spells, they each got perks unique to the class you chose.

One had bonus range on heals, another had bonus damage on multi hit spells, another had bonus damage on single target spells and i think the last just had an odd stat distribution that made it competent melee range healer.

Also your New helios sounds like White Mages Cure 3 but with more range. I think they should save that type of ability for the next healer added to the game since AST has its own perks already.

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Originally Posted by Triston

I really don't think it's possible to create WHM/AST comps with Noct AST as currently designed, no matter how many buffs it's given. It will need a near-full overhaul of how all the abilities work while in Nocturnal Stance in order to have a chance at knocking SCH off its throne, and it's quite clear that SE isn't in any rush to redesign the job.

Well, either that or an additional supplement to WHM to make IT the off-healer and let AST/WHM comps become a thing. Regardless of the solution, it'll require significant dev time to rework WHM or N.AST to have the barest hope of replacing a SCH. Until then, SCH mains rejoice, you are mandatory.

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My new raid group has been trying out N.AST/WHM composition, since i really love AST and a bit sick of playing SCH since 2.0. To call it messy would be a bit of an understatement. Healing is never ever an issue, the output of that comp is through the roof. The ability to stance dance as a N.AST is very messy compared to SCH. For single target healing you can drop clerics, use essential dignity the hop back into clerics. But you cna only do this every 40 secs. And there is nothing making up for the fairy. What i am finding the biggest issue is constantly dropping global cooldown compared SCH. So a SCH can drop clerics, Indomnibility the go back into clerics all without triggering the gloabl cooldown, thus making it so you can do this between attack spells. N.AST can not do this at all. The best you can manage is drop clerics, swiftcast a helios/aspected helios, trigger the global cooldown, hop back into clerics. Also Collected Unconscious vs SCH equivalent is also a gloabl cooldown loss to N.AST. Also factor in the amount of healin the N.AST themselves has to do to compensate for no fairy, and then you have a dps loss as well.

I wish N.AST/WHM would function as well as WHM/SCH but sadly it comes no where near.

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Originally Posted by DarkmoonVael

I wish N.AST/WHM would function as well as WHM/SCH but sadly it comes no where near.

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I completely agree with all of your posts :( The cooldowns on N.Ast is what makes it weak imo, we dont have any instant heals like indom. for when we need to cast aoe heal ASAP. Only Swiftcast and Lightspeed but if those are down, there is no possible way to heal the party right immediately before the next aoe hit. For certain fights, I mean if no one dies it's manageable but if someone dies, the recovery is very very hectic. I treat Swiftcast and Lightspeed as if they were the only coca colas in the desert, I time them very carefully because it's all I have for aoe emergencies.

I've been doing Sephi Ex on diurnal with SCH co healer (me diurnal) and it's no problem, but when I did it with a WHM I had to go Noct stance and when someone died during purple/green circles (2nd time) my Lightspeed was down because I used it on the first one (I always save it for instant recovery from purple/green and shielding for stomps) and my swiftcast was down (I think I used it to raise the SMN)... yeah after that I had no way to immediately heal them(after they got up) AND the party at the same time. I could've used ED but then I wouldn't have been able to get aoe heal/shield for the party in time for the stomps since I would've spent 1 or 2 seconds targeting them. I feel kind of limited on Noct Stance in that fight. Maybe I should've let the WHM raise the SMN? Or wait until after stomps to raise them slowly I guess...lol bleh... A SCH in this scenario could just use indom and call it a day. XD I guess it's the tradeoff for being able to cast instant solo shields and Helios? If anyone has any tips for Noct Stance in that fight, I'm all eyes.

If buff extending abilities turned into dot extending abilities in Nocturnal Sect we would have a better chance at competing with SCH without copying their Bane mechanic. It would fit the sustained output style which AST already has. In Diurnal we can extend hots to dps longer so it would really fit the theme to flip it around in Noct and be able to extend dots to heal a little more (to make up for lack of a fairy). Nocturnal Sect could also increase spell power instead of healing potency so that Diurnal and Nocturnal had the same base damage. These two changes wouldn't buff Noct healing which I feel is in a good place. SCH does have more instant direct heals but N. AST has stronger party buffs and an instant single target shield. Different but both have their moments.

Diurnal is more than fine though. The healing difference is negligible compared to WHM and on top of that we can offer strong party buffs and resources. I've gone from maining WHM to a full time AST because I can offer a lot more to my teams that way.

Nah, I just need a buff to Nocturnal Sect and I will be more than happy with my main. The AST DPS is pretty terrible but at least we have guaranteed dots.