Aggro

So haven't played new patch yet. I never really cared about damage as much, but was wondering what the differences are in holding hate now. Are they the same or harder? Also, is the content adjusted for the lower DPS?

I've had no problems holding switching to full VIT gear and points, I can still keep aggro with DRK and with PLD.

Aggro in tank stance is easier.
Aggro out of tank stance is harder.
They've been saying from the day they mentioned changes to tank DPS that they were letting up on the DPS checks. It'd be silly for them to put out unclearable content.
Also, stuff hits much harder.

Alright. Seems like overall decent change. At least I can enjoy the actual role still. All I really care about.

For the most part it emphasizes tanks to use tank stance more so then being out of it, I did Antitower and Lost City Hard and whenever I dropped grit the nin and drg were on my ass for aggro when I dropped grit. When I stayed in grit it wasn't an issue, also the bosses tank busters hit preeeety hard too.

Like... In dungeons, low-skill healers will stay out of Cleric Stance to insure they can heal better. It's just more like that for tanks with tank stance, now, I guess?

Shield lob is so weak now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The damage output from monsters is crazy high. And yeah, tanking in DPS stance is pretty much a no no by now. We can only do stance dancing to try and get some damage out of our bigger hits or DoTs, but spending a whole fight in Sword Oath or without Grit, etc? Nope. It's borderline impossible with the damage nerf. Even bad DPS will be on your toes before you know it :(

Did all midas stance dancing or deliv. Tanking just fine with no adjustments to my tank etiquette. (Given it wad with my static) Only agro problem i had was on a5 when i started by luring the boss with tomahawk into my unchained opener only to get concussion. I also dont use my gordion savage 210 fending/slaying , except to que into the instance. Dusty penta melds >i210 Fending or slaying. my overall attack power using old penta is higher then full 210 fending/slaying

With grit? Not really, without? Yup...if I can get a good lead on dps I can drop and keep going but if not then I have to stay in tank stance. I guess I'm actually tanking now lol

I haven't used the other two yet until I get a couple more 210 or higher weapons for them. On Dark with Deathbringer Awoken, (~206 average) Dragoon is still pushing enmity as Ive been getting them with the current max Anima stage lately. Anti-tower was my first new dungeon and I found my self using Enmity combos more and barely keeping up with agro before I got my gear above 200. I upgraded to Deathbringer i210 (avg~208) and that made Amdapor easier but I'm noticing that I'm cycling enmity combos more than I did before. I also seem to be loosing mp a bit faster because of it so I cant DA+ Abyssal drain, as much as before. until gear gets better.

Otherwise (for me) its back to weapon grinding to keep up with DPS. Because I still hate holding off Dragoons with better weapons and Blm who spam on a different target.. I did however manage to claim and hold Enmity on Cuchulainn when it turned off the tank and began going after the rest of the raid (his Healer or a DPS). The fact I was able to keep it after going all Vit was impressive enough.

I've had zero aggro issues. Then again im not trying to tank in dps stances. In-fact its easier to stay ahead, and when in tank stance I don't even use a enmity combo at the start now. Unless someone really got alot of burst off before I could get a hit in but other than that 0 issues.

Might be your problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Riki_Namu

I've had zero aggro issues. Then again im not trying to tank in dps stances. In-fact its easier to stay ahead, and when in tank stance I don't even use a enmity combo at the start now. Unless someone really got alot of burst off before I could get a hit in but other than that 0 issues.

Might be your problem.

---

I've noticed that it's super easy to tank in tank stance now even without the enmity combo, yeah. I guess the adjustments to enmity and some potency buffs on PLD make it possible to never do a RoH combo and still hold hate just fine. The problem is when you try to switch to DPS stance. I was able to stay in Sword Oath through like 80% of boss fights today in Amdapor, but the DPS might have not been super great. I'd have to try with DPS whom I know are competent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fernosaur

I've noticed that it's super easy to tank in tank stance now even without the enmity combo, yeah. I guess the adjustments to enmity and some potency buffs on PLD make it possible to never do a RoH combo and still hold hate just fine. The problem is when you try to switch to DPS stance. I was able to stay in Sword Oath through like 80% of boss fights today in Amdapor, but the DPS might have not been super great. I'd have to try with DPS whom I know are competent.

---

Without a nin, a good full goes blm is gonna rip you one open. My buddy taught me this well in lost city

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KorenA

Without a nin, a good full goes blm is gonna rip you one open. My buddy taught me this well in lost city

---

Blm does have Quelling Strikes, though. I'd be slightly more worried about good Dragoons, who can spike similarly to BLM but don't have any enmity reduction tools.

My bottomline was that I don't find holding hate in tank stance difficult in the slightest. It is holding it in DPS stance that is a real, ridic challenge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fernosaur

Blm does have Quelling Strikes, though. I'd be slightly more worried about good Dragoons, who can spike similarly to BLM but don't have any enmity reduction tools.

My bottomline was that I don't find holding hate in tank stance difficult in the slightest. It is holding it in DPS stance that is a real, ridic challenge.

---

Quelling is on a ridiculously long cd. And dragoon has the backflip that halves their current enmity like shroud for whm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by koroko220

Quelling is on a ridiculously long cd. And dragoon has the backflip that halves their current enmity like shroud for whm.

---

I always forget about that shizz! I stand corrected.

True about QS, though, I wasn't really thinking about pulls more than I was thinking about bosses.

I will add with pug groups dps or drks using gap closers immediately after i pull with a tomahawk can cause me to make on the fly audible with my opener and going straight into BB instead storm. This varies on how good the player is I'll usually determine what to do based off the enmity bar

Personally, I haven't had any aggro issues. In fact, I'm finding it easier to generate snap aggro by stance-dancing between combos, mainly while PLDing. But again, that may only be my perception.

Kinda sounds like Grit can never be turned off anymore. Making a stance useless. Making blood weapon useless too. Only thing I don't like about tank change.

You can actually still maintain aggro lead without tank stance. It's just harder to do for now. However, if you pull it off, you can still do way better dps. For every combo, you get 50x3 potency from Sword Oath, even if you spam Halone ((150+200+260pot) x 100% mod + 150pot from Sword Oath = 760) combo way more often, it's still better than be in Shield Oath and spam Royal Authority ((150+200+350pot) x 85% mod = 595). And those numbers aren't including autos yet + multipliers from FoF and other buffs/debuffs.

Note: excluding Goring Blade combo because it's still a priority to put it up no matter what.

Lol, if that makes blood weapon useless, then I'm the Pope. BW can and should still be used for any OT situations, skill speed increase and mana regen per every attack for more Dark Arts.

Actually that's true. Not sure why I was only thinking about MT.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MrsFluffyButt

Lol, if that makes blood weapon useless, then I'm the Pope.

---

BLESS MY CHILDREN

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by koroko220

Quelling is on a ridiculously long cd. And dragoon has the backflip that halves their current enmity like shroud for whm.

---

Actually, all of Dragoon's jumps are enmity dumps; There's a high chance a DRG will be killed after a jump, reducing enmity to zero.

Would say i still struggle as a PLD in SwO with very good DPS. as in i can't try to pump out constant DPS rotations.
With Shield Oath however its still easy peasy as it always was:P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ragology

Actually, all of Dragoon's jumps are enmity dumps; There's a high chance a DRG will be killed after a jump, reducing enmity to zero.

---

Somebody give this man an internet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ciri_Wolf

So haven't played new patch yet. I never really cared about damage as much, but was wondering what the differences are in holding hate now. Are they the same or harder? Also, is the content adjusted for the lower DPS?

---

The gap between tank stance/dps stance enmity generation is greater. While the current potency changes to the Paladin are known, the changes to Savage Blade's and the Tank stances' enmity multipliers are currently unknown (speculation puts the tank stance multipliers at x3).

From what I can tell, it is easier to hold enmity in tank stance (as a 3.2 Vit Paladin would be generating ~140% the enmity a 3.1 Str Paladin was if the new stance multiplier is x3), but harder to hold enmity in dps stance (90% the damage dealt from the damage calc changes).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blitzace

With Shield Oath however its still easy peasy as it always was:P

---

I'd even say easier than before.
I've just done the Antitower for MSQ, and I manage to keep aggro on a BLM and a DRG (Better geared than me) with almost no RoH.

I felt like a DRK, avoiding the enmity combo as much as I could :p

Alright now i can add an experience. I did antitower on my warr yesterday. It feel like I had to work harder to keep aggro. 203 warr vs 210+ drg and blm. It wasn't too bad until they split dps and each attacked a target with single target rotations. It was quite hard to keep up with both. I feel had str not changed it would have been much easier. (I also have a 210 weapon). I was definitely overpower aandflash spamming more than usual.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Awful

For the most part it emphasizes tanks to use tank stance more so then being out of it, I did Antitower and Lost City Hard and whenever I dropped grit the nin and drg were on my ass for aggro when I dropped grit. When I stayed in grit it wasn't an issue, also the bosses tank busters hit preeeety hard too.

---

I definitely agree, and for some reason I enjoy the hard hits. Makes tanking worthwhile again.