PSA: Strength Accessories are still, on a piece by piece basis, BiS for DPS

Vit and Str are worth the same, apparently (0.45 AP for each point). This means that pieces like the Law Necklace and Law Bracelets are still outdone by their str equivilents, as parry is still a totally garbage worthless stat and HP is still pretty much useless outside of meeting tankbuster requirements (which for any content outside of savage or extreme primals, 3 vit accessories will absolutely give you and then some).

So yeah if you're doing dungeons or alex normal or whatever you still want to use the STR accessories over VIT for the pieces with parry on them because parry is still garbo.

Except that's not really true. The issue you forgot is that the VIT accessories ALWAYS have higher + stats than what the STR accessories give you. So you are really only losing out on attack power AND hp by doing this. You are right that parry still is garbage, but keeping STR is only going to lower your attack. Both STR and VIT give the same output to your attack power, but VIT has more + stats.

Not sure how much (if any) determination does yet though. Accuracy is worth it, but skill speed... there's still plenty of fending accessories that'll give you that. You could give up a little attack power for more crit if you feel it's that necessary I guess...

Except that Fending accessories usually have 2 more VIT on them than Slaying accessories have STR. So each fending accessory is worth an additional .9 attack power which should pretty much offset any gains secondaries give you. Also, moving forward if you have the new gear which has parry on it, you can still meld on some extra secondaries that you desire. However, pentamelds are still pretty much the top tier since they pack in so many stat points.

Edit: Beaten cause I got distracted.

Stat weight used to be 1 AP = 1 Primary stat, but now 0.45 AP = 1 primary stat.

Ergo, 2 Vit = .9 AP.

For a Paladin, Det is worth 0.132 per stat (according to the only source I could find) in heavensward. Ergo, the 19 det on the Yasha Bracelets of Slaying, as an example, are worth 2.508 AP - which is a DPS upgrade.

Pretty minor, all things considered, but so's the extra HP. Pentamelds just win though so rip gil wallets.

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Originally Posted by Dement

which should pretty much offset any gains secondaries give you.

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Nope. Since the value of STR and VIT is lower than what STR was back in 3.0-3.1 the amount of an offensive secondary stat needed to equal a primary stat is far less than what it use to be. Meaning that if a VIT piece has parry on it and a slaying piece does not, the STR piece more than likely gives more AP. This is looking at things from a damage stand point only.

TLDR; Pentra melds with no parry >VIT accs with no parry > Str with no parry > Vit accs with Parry > Str with parry.

Agreed, but going forward the difference is even greater between VIT and STR. Looks like ilvl 240 gear will have 66 VIT on Fending and 61 STR on Slaying. So 5 VIT difference in the 240 gear range. Then it further appears that most of the fending accessories have at least 1 DPS stat (Crit or Det) although there are exceptions and none of the Slaying accessories have both Crit and Det on the same piece without melding. So I'm guessing the two sets are going to be pretty comparable, although I haven't mathed anything out and am just eyeballing it at the moment. It'll likely come down to you're giving away free HP by doing the STR set.

HP doesn't matter though, and secondary stats will be higher on the new gear as well. And one doesn't need crit and det on the same piece of gear - just something not parry, which is a black hole and might as well not exist on accessories for how effective it ever will be in such small numbers.

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Originally Posted by nyttyn

HP doesn't matter though, and secondary stats will be higher on the new gear as well. And one doesn't need crit and det on the same piece of gear - just something not parry, which is a black hole and might as well not exist on accessories for how effective it ever will be in such small numbers.

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It's really a non-issue... and to say you don't need the hp... I've yet to do Mida's Savage yet, but I can bet there'll be a much bigger tank buster than Alex... I wouldn't just flat out make a statement this early into a patch. (And ironically, if the tank buster happens to be physical, that parry could save you).

But, if you're worried about accessories, don't get the augmented primal fending necklace (parry stat), go for the midan necklace. Same VIT (which means same attack power increase) and better secondary stats.
Get the augmented primal fending earring instead of the midan earrings (parry stat).
Bracelet, get the augmented primal fending, not the midan
Get both augmented primal and midan rings because they don't use parry stat.

There, full 240 accessories that avoids the parry stat...
I don't see why you'd use STR gear. So basically, get your lore tomes and you get 3 of the necessary 240 accessories.
Beat Savage to get the other two.

If you can't beat them... then just get 230 lore or midan gear. But if you can't bear the end game content, you don't get the top gear; is just simply the case unless you're looking to be carried. But that's a different issue.

Now, if you're trying to maximize your skill speed and your crits, then sure. Go for STR accessories. You'll lose out on 11.25 attack power for the occasional crit. The crit may be worth it, but you also have no guarantee you'll get the crits necessary. Perhaps for a WAR this will be viable as they already have an enormous abundance of HP anyways (i mean, they'll probably be hitting like, 35k with all the 240 gear and using defiance). And they can use internal release (which none of the other tanks can use to increase their crit rates). If you are hoping to get more accuracy out of it... fending gear gives just as much.

The slaying accessories gives more combinations of determination, critical hit rate, skill speed, and accuracy, so if you are REALLY looking to maximize one or two of those specific stats, it may be worth it for a WAR. The other tanks however, I highly doubt it.

Especially for a PLD who's sword oath is based on base attack power with his auto attacks. Not like PLD's ever hit very hard (per single hit) to begin with, so crits aren't a deal breaker for me.

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Originally Posted by Malicewolf

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I don't see why you'd use STR gear.

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Maxing out personal DPS by avoiding parry since secondary stats just became that much more potent on all tanks.

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Originally Posted by Seku

Maxing out personal DPS by avoiding parry since secondary stats just became that much more potent on all tanks.

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Can you share where you see this info about secondary stats becoming more potent? I saw nothing in the patch notes, let alone any formulas to state such. I was not been able to test these this morning, but I was able to run a dungeon and have to say, I didn't feel there was much difference. But it was only a lvl 60 roulette, so not like it really stressed me much either. We were running through the enemies like butter.

Not trying to be abrasive, just honestly curiosity.

EDIT: Unless you meant that they are now more important since STR tanks took a hit to their overall power... If so, then not too sure about that honestly.

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Originally Posted by Malicewolf

It's really a non-issue... and to say you don't need the hp... I've yet to do Mida's Savage yet, but I can bet there'll be a much bigger tank buster than Alex... I wouldn't just flat out make a statement this early into a patch. (And ironically, if the tank buster happens to be physical, that parry could save you).

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Why do you assume there will be a much bigger tank buster? That's as big as an assumption as saying there won't be one. You're right no one knows, we'll find out how much vit we need later. However once we reach that point the str/vit debate can still come into play. Though probably not this tier, because;

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Originally Posted by Malicewolf

There, full 240 accessories that avoids the parry stat...
I don't see why you'd use STR gear. So basically, get your lore tomes and you get 3 of the necessary 240 accessories.
Beat Savage to get the other two.

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Right, we are lucky that this time around there are enough alternatives to likely avoid the issue. The problem is that the issue still exists at all, and in future tiers we could very easily see a STR accessory being BiS again if both the fending alternatives use parry. That's not exactly unheard of. There's also the potential issue with accuracy, as extra accuracy over cap because you were avoiding parry is just as much of a waste.

If they really want to stick to their idea of VIT always being best to aid in simplicity (and to stop feeding the floor fending loot), then they need to consider altering things further so the VIT ratio is considerably higher than the STR so as to always outweigh potential secondary stats. Or they could fix parry, but we've been asking for that forever and I don't believe they've ever even commented on it before. At least we know they are listening to the vit/str talk.

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Originally Posted by Malicewolf

Can you share where you see this info about secondary stats becoming more potent? I saw nothing in the patch notes, let alone any formulas to state such. I was not been able to test these this morning, but I was able to run a dungeon and have to say, I didn't feel there was much difference. But it was only a lvl 60 roulette, so not like it really stressed me much either. We were running through the enemies like butter.

Not trying to be abrasive, just honestly curiosity.

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I believe it's that they have become stronger in relation to main stats on right side gear. We used to get 1 AP per every STR on a right side piece, now we are only getting .45 per main stat (whichever it is). Therefore it is now easier for secondary stats to match the level of benefit a single stat point can give.

Square did the worst case scenario I predicted, even if they let it just a slight advantage to vit by 0.05 it would be better. I ran some tests and slaying is still the best gear because of secondary stats, even fending gear having some more VIT stats than slaying the secondary stats (crit/det) are better.

At ilvl 210 the bis now is.
Penta melded vit
Slaying
Fending

Kinda disappointed here :(

Can get new 230/240 vit set with no parry tho. Or is melded 220 better

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Originally Posted by Malicewolf

Not trying to be abrasive, just honestly curiosity.

EDIT: Unless you meant that they are now more important since STR tanks took a hit to their overall power... If so, then not too sure about that honestly.

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The clif notes version is now instead of giving 1 AP per point of main stat, it has been nerfed down to .45 for both stats. This is a huge nerf to the stat itself, but SE didn't balance it with similar adjustments to secondary stats. Since their weights remain unchanged then they have nearly doubled the potency of a secondary stat in comparison to before. Now more than ever, tanks will have to be picky about accessories.

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Originally Posted by alimdia

Can get new 230/240 vit set with no parry tho. Or is melded 220 better

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An i220 crafted piece with a Grade V Strength (+15 str) materia slapped onto it looks like the way to go I'm thinking.

EDIT: lmao I forgot the blue gear in 3.2 has a slot too.

It's arguable that even with parry, VIT would still be supreme to the raid contribution as opposed to personal contribution. So for example, the 5 VIT accessories, versus the 5 very slightly better 5 STR accesories, would still be ideal since the translation of that 5 accessories worth of VIT can mean more Healer offensive GCDS (not alot but still opportunities through critical heals or excessive regen), which are very very likely to outweigh the tiny buff the secondaries over parry gives.

Optimize for biggest raid DPS gain, not personal DPS gain. Unless ofcourse you're competing for personal FFlogs records.

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Originally Posted by FallenWings

It's arguable that even with parry, VIT would still be supreme to the raid contribution as opposed to personal contribution. So for example, the 5 VIT accessories, versus the 5 very slightly better 5 STR accesories, would still be ideal since the translation of that 5 accessories worth of VIT can mean more Healer offensive GCDS (not alot but still opportunities through critical heals or excessive regen), which are very very likely to outweigh the tiny buff the secondaries over parry gives.

Optimize for biggest raid DPS gain, not personal DPS gain. Unless ofcourse you're competing for personal FFlogs records.

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True, we'll have to see what incoming damage looks like when those numbers come out we'll know.

Higher VIT lets you cap out higher tier food and gain more AP from it <@;-)

OP hasn't been to Midas yet. Midas NORMAL.

Add AAs are hitting 2-4K, boss AAs up to 9K, frequent TBs upwards of 40K. Vulnerability Up debuffs are given out like candy. We are going to want that extra VIT. VIT may have been fluff in Gordias, but not here. The pillow fights are over. Again, this is Midas NORMAL. I'm both giddy and terrified at the curb-stomping that is likely to be happening in Savage.

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

OP hasn't been to Midas yet. Midas NORMAL.

Add AAs are hitting 2-4K, boss AAs up to 9K, frequent TBs upwards of 40K. Vulnerability Up debuffs are given out like candy. We are going to want that extra VIT. VIT may have been fluff in Gordias, but not here. The pillow fights are over. Again, this is Midas NORMAL. I'm both giddy and terrified at the curb-stomping that is likely to be happening in Savage.

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My thoughts exactly. When I first took the TB in A5 (when you get concussed, before we decided to voke at that point) I saw that 20k damage and just thought "Thank god I brought my VIT"

I was just playing around with Ariyala...

You can build a full tanking set with Fending accesories and what not while avoiding Parry and get the perfect 0. Granted I only toyed around i220 and i230 stuff tho... but, there goes the secondaries adventage.

Yea it may not be notorious right now, even maybe quite a loss DPS wise to use Fending in regards to Slaying... but thats for i210, is it not?

Nvm, it was already mentioned...

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

I was just playing around with Ariyala...

You can build a full tanking set with Fending accesories and what not while avoiding Parry and get the perfect 0. Granted I only toyed around i220 and i230 stuff tho... but, there goes the secondaries adventage.

Yea it may not be notorious right now, even maybe quite a loss DPS wise to use Fending in regards to Slaying... but thats for i210, is it not?

Nvm, it was already mentioned...

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While true, you'll end up with excessively high accuracy doing that.

Honestly, the vit/str change would have been fine if they'd taken the time to fix parry at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Harz

While true, you'll end up with excessively high accuracy doing that.

Honestly, the vit/str change would have been fine if they'd taken the time to fix parry at the same time.

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M8s boss does 50 low damage auto attacks per minute making parry viable again look forward to it.

You're a fool if you want to give up that much HP for such a minor DPS increase.

I was a 100% STR tank, because it delt so much more damage, and was worth giving up the HP for the great boost.

As-is, doing paltry, less then .5% more DPS potentially in exchange for that much HP lost is just clinging onto something for the sake of it.

Get over it.

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Originally Posted by Lethallin

You're a fool if you want to give up that much HP for such a minor DPS increase.

I was a 100% STR tank, because it delt so much more damage, and was worth giving up the HP for the great boost.

As-is, doing paltry, less then .5% more DPS potentially in exchange for that much HP lost is just clinging onto something for the sake of it.

Get over it.

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Enough said.