Healers, will the VIT adjustment for tanks hurt Dark Knights somewhat?

Hello everyone! :D

As well all know, Dark Knights "ultimate" defensive cooldown is rather stressful.
If it goes off and Living Dead activates, this ability will have you healing for a total of the Dark Knights HP or the tank will die.

Now, the coming changes to tanks will have their HP cap increase quite a bit.
My question is: Will this HP increase cause problems for Dark Knights suvivability?

Seeing as how we will have to heal about 17K HP to prevent death, do you think healers who have their abilities unavailable because of cooldown will have a bad time?

Perhaps it might affect the raid group overall since the healers will have to focus on healing said Dark Knight and forego the AoE damage coming out from everywhere?

Will there be problems or am I worrying over nothing?
I certainly hope I am worrying over nothing :p

They said will be adjusting all tanks so they MIGHT change how living dead works.

hmm i think whms and asts wont feel any difference with benediction & essential dignity in their backhands... but schs could maybe get a problem if they are unlucky and/or out of stacks... good question though – we will see :3

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Originally Posted by Neela

hmm i think whms and asts wont feel any difference with benediction & essential dignity in their backhands... but schs could maybe get a problem if they are unlucky and/or out of stacks... good question though – we will see :3

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It's actually funny, running a3s with drk MT but dps takes huge avoidable damage so the last minute essential dignity comes out. It normally wasn't a big deal before, just chain cast benefic 2 on the living dead, no problem; but this time we were testing out the tanks with more vit... Healing ended up being just a little short on dispelling the walking dead debuff.

Anyway, I hope they ease up on the healing needed for that cooldown. I mean, I don't think living dead's effect is useful enough that it would warrant the use of other cooldowns just to make it work. Well, that's going by a 1 to 1 comparison with the other "you can't kill me" tank skills, but still...

Give Scholars an excuse to use dissipation lol ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

White mages didn't care before and they won't care now.

As for AST/SCH, I think it depends on incoming damage rate (because if we're just healing 17-20k over 10 seconds, the problem is laughable). If the tank is taking more damage than what the healer can push in that one GCD, then the tank will never reach full health. I know from experience that an AST can burst-heal 15-18k within 1 GCD, but that's with crits and relying on that kind of luck doesn't hold in the long run. And then there's Synastry, of course.

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Originally Posted by Eisenhower

White mages didn't care before and they won't care now.

As for AST/SCH, I think it depends on incoming damage rate (because if we're just healing 17-20k over 10 seconds, the problem is laughable). If the tank is taking more damage than what the healer can push in that one GCD, then the tank will never reach full health. I know from experience that an AST can burst-heal 15-18k within 1 GCD, but that's with crits and relying on that kind of luck doesn't hold in the long run. And then there's Synastry, of course.

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They don't need to reach full health for Living Dead recovery, just receive their full health in healing, so it actually doesn't matter if they're still being hit. In other words if they don't need to be topped off so long as the healing reaches the same value as their max HP.

That being said LD is kind of annoying for SCH because they have to burn stacks on lustrate, otherwise they have to get lucky with crit physick to make the timer. I imagine WHM's dislike having to spend bene as well, but it does the job so much easier.

If there's two healers healing it's easy without spending anything, but it means you don't want to LD during or close to an AoE. I don't really see the move getting any more stressful though, because honestly healing in full Vit isn't really much different from STR ACC. The stressful part is fitting that final heal into the 10 second window, and the number of heals required doesn't actually change--it's just making sure they land in time.

Forgive my ignorance, but my highest healer is a only ilvl 200 and from what I can tell, it would take 3 Cure 2/Benefic 2 to reach the max HP of a full Vit tank that is ilvl 210 without crits or healing buffs. That... is cutting it a little close if you don't already have regens on or if you don't have a spare cooldown on hand.

So with current max VIT/HP values, there are no problems? I hope this is the case.

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Originally Posted by Erudito

Forgive my ignorance, but my highest healer is a only ilvl 200 and from what I can tell, it would take 3 Cure 2/Benefic 2 to reach the max HP of a full Vit tank that is ilvl 210 without crits or healing buffs. That... is cutting it a little close if you don't already have regens on or if you don't have a spare cooldown on hand.

So with current max VIT/HP values, there are no problems? I hope this is the case.

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I actually did a lot of testing with a DRK beforehand, and my general result was that if I didn't use lustrate and only depended on physick + fairy embrace then most of the time the tank would die. The exceptions were generally due to crit physick, and these were also conditions where I started casting immediately after the debuff popped on, as opposed to pre-casting before the debuff. Any cycle I used a lustrate though ended in a healed tank.

And yes, three heals in 10 seconds is typically the minimum required for LD unless your instant heal is up. If it is then you can generally cut it to two heals + that. This is for single-healing though, as if there's two healers it's overall a lot easier. If you can, you can always ask a DRK to help test out on the wasps just outside of Idyllshire. With the poison stacks even a 210 tank can trigger LD in a decent amount of time for testing.

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Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

They don't need to reach full health for Living Dead recovery, just receive their full health in healing, so it actually doesn't matter if they're still being hit. In other words if they don't need to be topped off so long as the healing reaches the same value as their max HP.

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Woah. Wait. WHAT?

Are you telling me that if a DRK receives a healing total equal to their max HP before Walking Dead's timer runs out, the Walking Dead debuff will get removed even if their actual HP value never reaches max?

Has this been tested or is it just a creative interpretation of the tooltip? If tests have been made, is there a video or something?

Yes, that it how it works. If they have 15k HP, they need 15k HP worth of healing done to them to remove the debuff. They do not need to actually be at 15k health. In raiding, its usually done at planned time and in coordination with Benediction. But with no WHM, or in lesser content as an emergency button, it's a pretty annoying survival ability.

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Originally Posted by FinalWolf

They said will be adjusting all tanks so they MIGHT change how living dead works.

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Final wolf what manga did that picture come from? It looks familiar to me but I cannot place it.

Just throwing it out there, but regen ticks and self heals count towards the quota.

Also a SCH isn't really worse off than the other two with planning. If you consider Lustrates as a 1.8K potency heal on a 1min CD (600*3 Aetherflow 60s recast) its actually arguably better than Bene/ED. Just requires planning, and honestly Holmgang and HG do as well. You're planning to ignore the tank for 6-10+ seconds and DPS.

If we still talk about LD... how could anything be better than Benediction?... o.o

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Originally Posted by Neela

If we still talk about LD... how could anything be better than Benediction?... o.o

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By the cooldown time in this case, I think. Which actually raises a question. Living Dead reduces the DRK to 1 HP. Benediction heals them to full. Does it actually heal the exact amount they are missing? Or their actual health? What I mean is, if DRK is on LD and you use Benediction and no other heals come into the equation, do they leave 1 point short from getting cured from it?

One minor thing to point out even though it probably shouldn't occur considering how miniscule it is but;

Benediction alone is not enough because it doesn't heal 100% of a DRK's HP while under walking dead.

So for example, a DRK has a total of 15,000 HP and hits the walking dead status with 1hp left(health cannot go lower). Benediction will only cure 14,999 by itself making it 1 short from removing the walking dead debuff. Naturally more often than not this teeny tiny amount will be covered by HoTs and/or DRK's self heal (if he is in Grit using SE or bloodbath) but for those WHMs out there that leave the DRK with no heals save for a last second benediction be warned.

Hello, my name is idiot.

Site? I thought bene would heal 100% of the targets Max life oO

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Originally Posted by Legion88

Site? I thought bene would heal 100% of the targets Max life oO

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Should be easy to test, get a friend whacked to half by something, bene them and see what number pops up for the heal. If you have the game at hand that is. If they were only in half, and the number is also way lower than their max health..

@FallenWings

I remember this being the main complaint during the early days of Ravana Ex (Cheesing via LD), benediction -> still dead due to no more incoming damage to be healed by regen.

However, I vaguely remember there was a patch that "fixed" this issue (I suspect just by simply changing the total HP you need to recover = Total HP -1) and there's no longer a complaint regarding this issue.

I do not main heals, but I do know the Bene hits the target for their total HP. The tooltip itself reads: "Restores all of a target's HP" This is done in a heal amounted to the current total HP of the target.

I can't test it ATM but I do believe the Benediction formula is target's max HP - target's current HP = HP healed.

It won't change at all
On the opposite it will far more easier now !

Even if whm is the best to save drk (i mean benediction... Please... Awesome skill)
It take 2 spell for the AST and maybe 3 for a sch

Plus...
Remember that more VIT = Less chance to trigger living dead... Because the HP pool is bigger ! =D

....

The benediction Formula is basic : HP max = HP healed
You have 21k HP then benediction will be 21k heal... No matter how many HP the person have
It always overheal XD

just cast benediction on yourself at full HP

it will pop up with a green heal number equal to your total hp

simple, it heals for ur max hp regardless of your current hp

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Originally Posted by Eisenhower

Woah. Wait. WHAT?

Are you telling me that if a DRK receives a healing total equal to their max HP before Walking Dead's timer runs out, the Walking Dead debuff will get removed even if their actual HP value never reaches max?

Has this been tested or is it just a creative interpretation of the tooltip? If tests have been made, is there a video or something?

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It has been like that from the start.

http://i.imgur.com/OWHlOcj.png

GG LOL Rekt myself

Benediction apparently does just flat out remove Walking dead.

-100 Credibility
-100 Credibility
-100 Credibility

-879767856/100 Credibility points


I guess my healers were just laggy when it happened in Ravana

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Originally Posted by Neela

uh... Fallen, how can u play with so many overlays/UI elements on your screen? :o

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Idk. How can I not if i don't have every single piece of information available to me? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

uh... Fallen, how can u play with so many overlays/UI elements on your screen? :o

I do actually find it soft compared to mine XD
(I see an aora butt ! *0* oh wait... A female one...)

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Originally Posted by Neela

uh... Fallen, how can u play with so many overlays/UI elements on your screen? :o

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Ha, I have as many, but having positioned them quite differently that screenshots looks too busy even for me :o

It won't make a difference. Most groups just benediction living dead off anyway, and groups without a white mage can do it with just essential dignity>benefic II.

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Originally Posted by Sida

By the cooldown time in this case, I think. Which actually raises a question. Living Dead reduces the DRK to 1 HP. Benediction heals them to full. Does it actually heal the exact amount they are missing? Or their actual health? What I mean is, if DRK is on LD and you use Benediction and no other heals come into the equation, do they leave 1 point short from getting cured from it?

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Any overhealing does not count for Living Dead. So Benediction will heal their max HP minus 1.

Note that if the tank doesn't take any damage after LD triggers, you won't be able to heal that 1 leftover HP with any spell and they'll die when the time runs out. For scholars, this makes Adloquium a poor choice to use.

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Originally Posted by Pells

(...) Benediction will heal their max HP minus 1.

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According to Fallens screenshot she got 6174/6174 hp and you can see the debuff msg " - Walking Dead" in the middle of the screen... so your statement seems just to be wrong... o.O

Benediction =/= max hp -1
Benediction = max hp

or did i miss something?...

No that's it
Benediction heal your max HP in the most simpliest way
You will always overheal at least 1 hp

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Originally Posted by Neela

According to Fallens screenshot she got 6174/6174 hp and you can see the debuff msg " - Walking Dead" in the middle of the screen... so your statement seems just to be wrong... o.O

Benediction =/= max hp -1
Benediction = max hp

or did i miss something?...

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This was actually changed in one of the recent patches, I believe somewhere in between 3.1 and 2? It's in patch notes, but I don't want to dig through them at this moment, though I do remember celebrating about it. Originally when HW was released Benediction wouldn't work for living dead if the DRK allowed the first server regen tick to go off first, and you'd have to follow it up with another heal even though they would be at full life. They made it so that when benediction is used it overheals by an additional bit of HP to prevent this.

ah okay i see, no need to be confused anymore than :3

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Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

I actually did a lot of testing with a DRK beforehand, and my general result was that if I didn't use lustrate and only depended on physick + fairy embrace then most of the time the tank would die. The exceptions were generally due to crit physick, and these were also conditions where I started casting immediately after the debuff popped on, as opposed to pre-casting before the debuff. Any cycle I used a lustrate though ended in a healed tank.

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Have you tried with an ET Adlo? Do you think that'll relieve the necessity for a lustrate?

Good to know that's how Benediction rolls. Thanks for the test. :)

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Originally Posted by Pells

Any overhealing does not count for Living Dead. So Benediction will heal their max HP minus 1.

Note that if the tank doesn't take any damage after LD triggers, you won't be able to heal that 1 leftover HP with any spell and they'll die when the time runs out. For scholars, this makes Adloquium a poor choice to use.

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This is so incorrect...

To put this in context, know I've raided savage with a white mage and dark knight, and part of our strategy was to benediction off living dead for one of the tank busters. So I've seen benediction flat out remove the living dead debuff a countless amount of times. It's literally impossible for living dead to kill you if benediction has been cast properly.

As someone who plays DRK in my raid group, I can vouch for this from the tank side. Benediction does indeed work if I need to use Living Dead.

I can also say that as someone who never went in for the STR tank trend that I don't think this is going to be a major issue the reason being is that I find that compared to our other tank, I rarely need to use my last resort ability. Most runs I never need to activate living dead, so I would expect that the stress of this ability going off for jobs like SCH would actually lessen rather than being more. Consider than your DRK is going to go up about 5-6k HP and the chances that they will need to use this ability go down dramatically.

To solve all these benediction doubts. Benediction did not work on living dead on release, it was only after some weeks after on alexander release (3.01) that benediction got tweaked to fully work with living dead.

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An issue with the dark knight action "Living Dead" wherein the "Walking Dead" effect could not be removed.

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If my Walking Dead is up I will always make sure to use Convalesence for the increased heals. Walking Dead is removed when 100% of you Max HP is healed. You can still sit at 50% HP and Walking Dead will fall off as long as the healer has healed 211500 points of HP during the period of walking dead being up.