Wish monsters were dangerous

I\\'ve been playing since 1.0 so I forget about this sometimes but after watching my gf play.. is it me or are monsters in the open world nothing more then slight annoyances? I\\'m talking of course mainly of the leash system (for lack of better words) in which a monster will follow you for 10 feet before returning.

I\\'ve been thinking for a while how the game feels so small despite all the content. Was an ffxi player and I remember the world felt so vast and overwhelming, like you\\'re exploring a world, and a dangerous one at that. I\\'m sure part of that is just nostalgia and I\\'m just older now... But does anyone else feel that if the leashes were cut, and players had a real fear of drawing agro, the world would feel a bit more dangerous? An insentive to sneak around or get help?

Ever run past a hunt on a low level character? The one shot is still a little thing. I get what you mean, though. I think since we've had so much time to traverse Eorzea at this point that it does feel small because it is a known world where we've literally scoured the obscure edges of the map looking for everything from fishing holes to that bastard Forneus in Central Shroud. To be fair, do you remember trying to go into the Sylphlands for beast tribe quests before Heavensward? That was awful and dangerous. I can't even explain what a great feeling it is to run through there without aggroing everything. There are some areas that I think will still immediately punish you for being in them, I believe. Think about the times you had to do low level gathering near enemies that would murder you because you were halfway through a node.

there is really nothing in the open world that is a threat sadly. even the hunts they dont even see me most of the time i run by them. the only agro i care about is when i get to unspoiled node because it disapears while ur gathering.

No, monsters being off their leashes would not make the world more dangerous. Just more annoying as escaping might not be possible. Monster trains in most MMOs are less dangers than player created annoyances.

For a world to be more dangerous it needs to have threats that players can't just ignore.

Consider the Beast tribe areas in ARR. Between levels 45 and 50 and below i70, they were dangerous because you could end up fighting more opponents than you could handle at once and they could kill you as a group. Past i90 it became far more difficult for them to kill you before you slaughtered them making any attacks they hit you with more annoyance (mainly due to the heavy you got while mounted from their ranged attacks) than danger.

I've played FFXI and 1.0 too, and I know the feel.

Back on 1.0 we had lv60-70+ mobs running around that could one-shot you, and quests involving to dodge these in order to reach a specific zone (like the last quest where you have to /pray the 12 stones)

Anyways, it's ok for me if the open world is "safe", as long as they keep it hard on places like Diadem, where if you aggro alone you're dead, or if the party links stuff it's a wipe.

I do sortof wish there was a few areas where the enemy threat level was high enough that you'd ideally want to go in as a group even late into the Development cycle of the Expansion. Like an Open World Dungeon. But the "Leashes aren't really the problem. Beyond letting you get away if you really don't have time for their nonsense, it also serves an additional benefit of meaning that when I go past and try to ignore something, I'm not stealing a Mob that someone else might be able to kill.

The beast tribes were an excellent solution but unfortunately you can't frame that in enough areas without it looking silly. And I'd argue the annoying factor that those monsters will follow you much farther and kill you if they're not delt with is pretty dangerous as you're going to get. Granted the Run Away! Option doesn't have to be an entire zone but the leash could be extended quite a bit...

At least for some monsters always, the ones who are truly aggressive and looking for a reason to kill >:}

Why wish for a thing where people can avoid just by flying?

Because in heavenward they are harder but since we fly they are not dangerous anymore. And being 60 later even less.

And why wish for dangerous monsters for people come here to forum cry that they can't cross x place because this y mob is in the way and is annoying and tell SE to remove or move him of their path later?

Because in 1.0 we had this and people whined about it. Remember that mob right outside of ul'dah and killing a lot newbies or people low lvl? What happened to him after a while? Moved :) There you go, your answer.

I understand your feeling, but modern days that way of thinking is a relic of the past. Since it isn't about just you but others and the majority just want cakewalk stuff, sadly.

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Originally Posted by Keramory

The beast tribes were an excellent solution but unfortunately you can't frame that in enough areas without it looking silly. And I'd argue the annoying factor that those monsters will follow you much farther and kill you if they're not delt with is pretty dangerous as you're going to get. Granted the Run Away! Option doesn't have to be an entire zone but the leash could be extended quite a bit...

At least for some monsters always, the ones who are truly aggressive and looking for a reason to kill >:}

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You missed my point: Being harder to run away from does not make something more dangerous. It just makes it more annoying.

Danger does not come from escape difficulty or how long it takes to escape. It comes from the mob's ability to ruin/interfere with your plans; be those plans to escape from another mob, gather from an unspoiled node, or killing another target.

The Beasttribe areas were dangerous because the aggressive mob density in the areas were so great that accidentally pulling additional mobs was an actual risk (that rising ilevels made a no risk later on) potentially leading to your death.

Some unspoiled nodes are risky to collect from because there is a danger that a nearby aggressive monster will aggro you and attack while you are trying to collect if you forget to sneak making you lose the node.

As a LTW who needs to grind skins, please don't make that tedious grind even harder (and by that I mean take longer)

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

You missed my point.

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What you just described to me is almost exactly the same thing. In short, if you weren\\'t careful doing what you were doing (going by, mob pull, node) something would argo and ruin your plans. My comment was only that you can\\'t have that many monsters everywhere... Which is why letting some grip go off the leash is one of the very few solutions for an average world scenario.
I would compromise that the monsters definitely need a reposition in some areas for that reason

Unless open world mobs gave a lot more EXP or something else that makes the danger and risk worth it, having stronger mobs for the sake of it isn't a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Keramory

What you just described to me is almost exactly the same thing. In short, if you weren\\'t careful doing what you were doing (going by, mob pull, node) something would argo and ruin your plans. My comment was only that you can\\'t have that many monsters everywhere... Which is why letting some grip go off the leash is one of the very few solutions for an average world scenario.
I would compromise that the monsters definitely need a reposition in some areas for that reason

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Not having leashes would not do what you are asking for. Leashes determine max chase distance/max wander distance.

All leash removal would do is allow for increased kiting, formation of aggro monster trains and very rarely mobs wandering into other parts of the zone where they might cause problems for players unable to deal with them.

What you are asking for is best done with larger aggro/link distances with more ranged, gap closing and harpoon attacks if you want low monster population densities.

They ramped up monster health a ton in HW. It didn't make things harder, it just made it more annoying to kill.

They can't increase the damage they do, because the jobs without much defense would be as wet paper bags to them.

They can't really give monsters additional telegraphed attacks to dodge either because jobs with low movement would never actually kill anything (BLM).

If you wan't more difficulty, you're going to have to create it for yourself. Quest naked or something.

As a fellow FFXI player, I say leashes are fine. Nothing irritated me more than zoning into a place like Crawler's Nest and instantly dying because someone trained all the mobs to the zone line.

Just stop whining about this. You got your wish with 3.0 to the limited extent that monsters hit harder and have a lot more health (comparing ilevel 49 characters to level 49 mobs and ilevel 120 characters to level 51 mobs). That change was a DIRECT RESPONSE to people asking for "more dangerous monsters".

The result of the change is that it takes far longer to kill a single mob than before, and classes with limited self heals either need a chocobo out at all times (say goodbye to duty finder queue) or need to engage enemies individually with pauses in between to regen hp. Fates with 2 or 3 long range capable randomly spawning enemies will murder a pugilist or machinist if they don't have a support chocobo. Not to mention many 3.0 fates are nearly impossible (and certainly inefficient) to complete for solo players even when they have synced to their lowest difficulty. Try leveling a 3.0 dps class during non-peak hours on a lower population server. Nearly ever fate after Dravanian forelands is out of the question.

Enemies aren't rewarding to kill. XP is a laugh, even for chocobos that require those kills to level. Drop rates for crafting materials are much lower for 3.0 enemies than current 2.0 enemies, and the crafts require more of each item (3 skins per leather, up from 1 skin). Many players have completely given up on farming materials from mobs due to the combination of low drop rate and longer killing times, and instead make ample use of more efficient battle retainers. Outside of the daily hunt missions, there is absolutely no reason to engage common enemies in the field.

Stop begging for pointless "challenge" (because the devs are apparently listening to this drivel) and try suggesting more meaningful field monsters instead. Give me a reason to fight a monster rather than fly over it, and THEN we can talk about how difficult that monster should be.

I played on MMORPGs and MUDs pre-"leash" and know exactly why the system was implemented. Imagine being a level 1-5 character and walk out into the world for the first time to kill a ladybug and find yourself face to face with a level 20 agro mob that some a-hole dragged over and left there just to laugh at the "newbies".

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Originally Posted by Shiki_Lockhart

Why wish for a thing where people can avoid just by flying?

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give enemies ranged attacks with 20 yalm range and let them from time to time look up.

In short, increase their aggo range and don't have them to run into attack range.

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Originally Posted by Felis

give enemies ranged attacks with 20 yalm range and let them from time to time look up.

In short, increase their aggo range and don't have them to run into attack range.

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So you want to suffer under the Heavy status even more while trying to do a daily quest? I dunno how that's more fun than what we have now.

yeah, level 51 enemies are not that strong when you are level 60 and your item level is 210.

don't need them to be stronger, you still have ffxi for that, maybe give that another go