Its just stupid. So much waste of resources for a Instanced Striking dummy, that most people will dont even know that it excists, where you have to travel to a NPC and talk to it to acces it. I get the crycry i get bullied when people see my dps argument but you could just add a personal parser if thats the concern. There are so many ways to implement it.
I dont understand the decisiions they do any more. It feels The devs have drifted away form the playerbase and dont know what people demand.
A other example is the Gold saucer , its good and fine but why arent Trple triad, chocobo racing and Lords not in Duty finder, why do we have to stay in that goldsaucer and are only abel to play people on our server and not datacenter wide, thats what basicly kills these games and its tournements.
Next example Grand company restrictions for frontlines people shouting at yoshi from begining that its bad, and it didnt got removed till now, they rather have the lore intact instead of fixing the way to long qeue times for frontlines.
Also PVP, the new Feast mode will have AGAIN 5 different Queues, didnt they learn from Wolvs denn 5 Queues is to much, it will take forever to find a mach. ALso you only can queue solo OR in a full team, we cant even queue as duo if we whant to.
Then there is Diadem that couldve been total awesome exploration contend but it became a instanced hunt that made savage alex totally worthless to do, back in the day they said raid tier gear will be the strongest in a content cycle but look how it is now you get thrown at with 210 gear in diadem and get upgrade items from void ark, wich leads me to the next point, the relic. Could they really not think about anything better then the same quest steps minus the awesome Chimare and hydra battles, then Fate grinding and stone/token grinding, i mean cmon.
Well what i whant to say is i think they lost contact to the playerbase and what the real demand there is, how to implement stuff, and what fun means to the players.
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02-10-2016, 06:15 PMLaladynDev decisions get away from the player demnads ( Parser PVP Goldsaucer diadem ect.)
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02-10-2016, 07:21 PMrandysquirrel
At some point SE will have to give up babying everything trying to attract new people, and realise they are losing more established players than there are new people joining
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02-10-2016, 07:21 PMLone-wolfe-02
I gotta admit i have to agree a lot of their decisions make zero sense, don't even get me started on this mentor system.
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02-10-2016, 07:42 PMruskie
I guess people missed this:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Moving-Forward -
02-10-2016, 09:23 PMHakuroDK
How about, instead of creating a whine thread about why the devs aren't listening, actually post constructive criticisms in separate topics? Like... do you really think the US community team will take a topic like this seriously when it has garbage grammar and spelling, a metaphorical splatter of random topics, and a general attitude of malice towards the devs as if they're intentionally trying to screw their own playerbase?
Come on, now. If you want people to take your thread seriously, be serious about your presentation. -
02-10-2016, 09:31 PMLaladynEnglish is not my native , i think i got my point accross, if the devs ore anyone will care is not my concern i just tryed to voice my opinion. Maybe itll make a difference maybe not.Quote:
Originally Posted by HakuroDK
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02-10-2016, 10:05 PMChocoFeru
I posted a thread about this some time ago in the suggestion forum, and didn't get enough love D:!
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...em-Duty-Finder. -
02-10-2016, 10:14 PMEul
What's wrong with pvp? Current pvp like wolves den is pretty dead.
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02-10-2016, 10:45 PMLaladynWell Lov not in duty finder made it a born dead, i really liked it and i think its fund but standing in the minion area for hours alone and not be able to play is just not fun. Stupid decission to not put it in DF. Either do it right or dont do it at all. Kinda feels the people that make these decissions are spoiled by the succes the game had and now think the players will take everything and praise it even if its bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChocoFeru
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02-10-2016, 11:39 PMWhiteroomWell to be fair, he is saying that the devs have ingnored those constructive threads, which for a large part they have. The striking dummy is such a half measure with too many resourses used to create that half measure.Quote:
Originally Posted by HakuroDK
Also there are what, four different language forums? One must have perfect grammar in one of those languages to post a legitimate concern? I think the team is aware that every poster here does not have english as their first language, are you?
(Current unfounded gripe: I wonder if you will be abe to take your mentor into the training dummy?) -
02-10-2016, 11:43 PMRemus
The main problem with FFXIV is they invest too much into trying to bring new players into the game and not paying attention to the people who are already there playing.
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02-10-2016, 11:45 PMIromiThis. It's felt this way since launch. Not being able to retain subs is BAAAD...Quote:
Originally Posted by Remus
They need to focus on retaining and not getting so many new players who quit as quickly as they came. -
02-10-2016, 11:50 PMYukiko
Its quite simple: Alexander Savage was too hard -> give them a dummy to let them softly know they have weak DPS (what a nice motivation)
Before saying they made something wrong, they will try to fix it with a workaround...
Stuck on progress -> just tell them in 5 months with new gear and after 1 month of farming because of caps they "may" win the fight (oh wait, we forgot: we cant nerf insta death mechanics - sorry!) -
02-11-2016, 12:10 AMLaladynThey just super stubborn with the Parser thing , idk if it came from the JP community or from whatever. Fact is, most PC people allready using a Parser by joice, leaving out Playstation players doesnt seem good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukiko
I want to add alot of the new players is friends from people who allready play and recommendet FFXIV to them ,so keeping the acive players happy is even more importand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iromi
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02-11-2016, 01:16 AMFelis
LoV - It cost a entry fee, and in DF are only free entries
TT - Also entry fee and rage quit issues if in DF. Not enough GCP win because the random opponent don't have enough cards or you don't like the rule the other choosed? quit and requeue. Next time it is the other player who quit, then you again.
They already said multiple times that they did the DPS checks in Alex Savage 3+4 too hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukiko
Expect Savage nerfs coming -
02-11-2016, 01:39 AMKaurieWhile I agree with your premise, I disagree with a bunch of other stuff. I think this is why the devs have a hard time implementing stuff, as we (the playerbase) can't really agree on what we want as a collective. For example:Quote:
Originally Posted by Laladyn
Parser
Personal Parsers won't fix the problem any more than a striking dummy. You are going to get people who are parsing 350 DPS when they hit 60 and have 0 idea that it's bad as they cannot see other players. You'll have a subsection of these players ask the team "Hey, is 350 DPS any good?" which will likely be met with silence, possibly a kick, possibly a laugh. You'll get PFs that say "Containment Bay Extreme learning party, must have 1500+ DPS", and people will join it when they are at 1200. They'll hold the team back, people will get frustrated and get even more mad at the person for lying. There will be lots of resentment, lots of people not having a clue, and lots of frustration. The negatives of a personal parser far outweigh the negatives of a group one. Further, the positive of a group one far outweigh the positives of a personal one.
Gold Saucer
In my personal opinion, nothing in the gold saucer is remotely fun. They have a bunch of mini-games that are done horribly. Chocobo racing - It's like Mario Kart, but significantly worse than the SNES version. Triple Triad - If I wanted to play a card game, I'd get out a deck of cards. Lords of Vermilion - If I wanted to play an RTS, I'd play Starcraft. They are all just really bad in comparison to other games in their same genre. There is like 0 reason for me to play them and if that is what I am logging in to FFXIV to do, I may as well be logging in to a different game. IMO Everything Gold Saucer related has been the largest waste of developers time.
GC Restrictions and PvP
I actually mostly agree with you on this.
Diadem
IMO the gear was never the problem with Diadem. The only reason I did it was the gear, and I wanted the gear to help me out with Savage. So it didn't retract from my raiding either. The real issue is that it lacked all sense of exploration. Due to flying and the nature of high level mobs spawning faster when you kill lower stuff, it encouraged everyone to congregate and spam kill. It needed systems that encouraged exploration, it needed the removal of flying (or a limitation on flying). There is nothing else in this game that doesn't tire me out more than doing Diadem. My eyes literally hurt once I do a single session. Conversely, I could hunt/raid/dungeon etc all day and be fine, but one 90 minute Diadem run is enough.
Relic
I agree with this as well.
You mean the thread with over 100,000 views and 65 pages of people arguing against the developers chosen direction?Quote:
Originally Posted by ruskie
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02-11-2016, 01:53 AMAndevomIt's sad that I agree PFs like that would absolutely be a thing. And it's not like everyone is always consistent in their DPS. Just because you did amazing once doesn't mean you're always breaking 1500.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurie
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02-11-2016, 02:56 AMLaladynAnd at the moment someone on the party will allways parse and people who do bad dps will just get removed without reason. Thats a better situaton? ?Also noone hinders anyone to make their own PF recruitement or forces anyone to join any PF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andevom
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02-11-2016, 03:12 AMazlewood
dps meters are dumb, and unintentionally encourage negative behavior in players.
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02-11-2016, 03:15 AMKhemorex
id like to see one good idea how some of you who dont like the current content would add something with a long term goal without it being a grind :P
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02-11-2016, 03:29 AMKosmos992kWith respect, how can you expect a full blown AAA racing, card battle or RTS game to be implemented within the mini-game framework of an MMORPG? These games are not intended to be genre leading versions of their game. They are themed mini-game versions of games in those genre. As such they work pretty well, and are a fun alternative when you're bored of killing things. If I want a real RTS, or racer, I can always take a break from Eorzea and go play something else for an evening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurie
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02-11-2016, 03:34 AMYukikoThats not true, because before that there was a lot pressure from players and even japan players were not nice to them...Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
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02-11-2016, 03:36 AMGaldous
The problem is people do not know what they want a lot of times. There have been times that suggestions I felt were good ideas in wow which did get implemented in the future ended up turning out to be total crap after the fact. Suggestions from the playerbase is a highly valued asset but to take as the holy grail and primary source of inspiration for advancing this game is something that did not work for other mmo's. They need to have ideas that they drive and not let the 400k playerbase all try to steer the wheel. It spreads the development team thin implementing all of these ideas left and right and not focusing on the core gameplay. Plus the random match making on all the mini games is a bad idea imo. We need to be able to race chocobos with people we know for no reward or develop tools for the community to be more vested in the server.
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02-11-2016, 03:38 AMLaladynMajority of PC player base allready uses parsers nothing you can do about. If you would play on PC or are interested in endgame contend you would too.Quote:
Originally Posted by azlewood
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02-11-2016, 03:43 AMMalzian
All of this is a constant tug of war, though. Here's how it usually goes:
1.) Players request Feature X in the game.
2.) Devs receive the request, evaluate it in their view of the game as they want it to be and reject it or decide to proceed.
3.) Should devs proceed, they develop the content within the frame of the game and do their best to make it work and feel worthwhile.
4.) Devs release content to the players.
5.) Players immediately dig into the system expecting that the system will be exactly everything they've ever hoped.
6.) Players are disappointed because the devs can't meet every expectation the players have of a system.
7.) Players complain to the devs to fix the issues as they see them where half the community says one thing and half the community says the other.
8.) Devs take the feedback, try to tune it to fit the criticisms of the players on both sides and we go right back to step 5.
No system the devs ever release will be perfect, it will never suit every single player of the game all of the time. There will be flaws due to miscalculation, under/over-estimation, technical limitations and bugs as well as a myriad of other things. The devs are humans, not robots who can spit out exactly what we want whenever we want it. And let's be clear, the players are human too... a lot of time people say they want something in the game, have a flawless conception of it in their mind, get what they wanted and then realize that flawless conception doesn't actually stand up to what reality delivers. This isn't just true in the games we play, it's true in so many other places as well.
In short, the devs don't 'ignore' us, rather they have to take a broad range of opinions from a broad range of people and condense those things into something that fits their vision of the game at large. You will never get something perfect that is designed by committee and then implemented by someone outside of that committee who has a completely different view of what's both possible and valid within the terms of what they are creating. -
02-11-2016, 03:53 AMFelisQuote:
Originally Posted by Yukiko
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...802-10-2016%29Quote:
Additionally, as I mentioned previously, the DPS checks for the third and fourth areas of Alexander: Gordias (Savage) were much too severe, and giving consideration to this we are in the midst of making final adjustments.
He also said it in some interviews
And something to the parser dummies:
Many who are against a official parser that calculated the dmg of all party members found the idea of a dummy parser as Ok in all the parser threads. -
02-11-2016, 03:55 AMKaurieI don't expect AAA anything. I just don't expect them to add useless content where I can easily get better and similar content elsewhere. I am not sure if I conveyed myself well, I don't want SE to make the Gold Saucer content better, I just don't want them to waste time with useless stuff like this. As they are implemented, they are anything but fun. I was sick of LoV about ~1 minute into the tutorial. I hated Chocobo racing about half-way through my first race. I despised Triple Triad after my first game. They lacked any sense of fun from the get-go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
Your last part of your post sums up my point precisely "If I want a real RTS, or racer, I can always take a break from Eorzea and go play something else for an evening." -
02-11-2016, 03:56 AMCanadaneWhen I say, "No you cannot join my party unless you've beaten this dummy in x time/level" you'll soon learn that it exists.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laladyn
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02-11-2016, 03:58 AMLaladynNo way to proove that you ever beat any dummyQuote:
Originally Posted by Canadane
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02-11-2016, 03:59 AMCanadaneThen you have no way to join my party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laladyn
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02-11-2016, 04:00 AMLaladynIts ok and it will help some console players to check theyr performance, but its still wasting resources on a contend that couldve saved and spend on something other by just add a personal parserQuote:
Originally Posted by Felis
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02-11-2016, 04:06 AMNalien
I don't think the dummy is entirely wasted resources... It can be adapted into a number of things... Hopefully they can take the basic concept and apply it to make solo Trials, which would be a good way of putting skill checks into the game that don't involve playing team jump rope... That would be the single biggest addition they can make to Relic weapons... Rather than a weapon that rewards sheer mediocrity, they can have a weapon that rewards playing well, without running into the same problem we had with Titan HM. At it's simplest they can just have a special Stone, Sky, Sea Trial for the Relic quest, if someone cannot beat that for their Relic, then they only have themselves to blame. At it's best, they can adapt the same thing into a unique Trial that can be considerably more epic.
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02-11-2016, 04:10 AMLaladynThen noone can ever join your party because noone can proof itQuote:
Originally Posted by Canadane
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02-11-2016, 04:12 AMmyahele
I personally believe that *need* to communicate with us more so they can implement it to suit the players needs
We wanted a minion battle minigame .... They gave us Lords of Verminion.
These all take time and money to develop and now they're dead
They just keep throwing content at us and see what sticks and then do it differently and hope it works. -
02-11-2016, 04:15 AMAndevomI don't really understand the first point you're trying to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laladyn
As for PF requirements, yeah, sure, it's a given that people are allowed to make whatever rules they want. And people are still going to join up thinking they can DPS that well, and then do poorly on a run and get kicked out. It makes absolutely no difference compared to how things are handled currently. -
02-11-2016, 04:33 AMKosmos992kI disagree with you on this. FF games have generally had a lot of mini-games included within them. Sometimes it's meta-games, and sometimes it's explicit minigames. The content in the Gold Saucer fits completely with that tradition, the same tradition you'll find in many JRPGs also, of providing minigames as fun diversions from the main game. Obviously fun is in the eye of the beholder, and I'm sorry these minigames are not to your liking. But they are very much a part of this being an FF game, and a lot of people do enjoy them. The point of these games is not to offer a full game experience, but rather be a short duration diversion from the 'real' game of FFXIV.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurie
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02-11-2016, 04:37 AMLaladynI try to say at the moment you get booted without knowning why because people cant say "your dps is to bad" because they could get banned. But still people bring the argument against parsers because they couldnt join certain PF groups if there would be a ingame parser. I mean Parsers exist and get used all the time and most PC people see the DPS of all party members, its not like much would change if they would add a ingame parser. The only thing that would change is Console players could see the DPS as well and everyone could talk about DPS, wich would be good i think, it give oppurnities to improve. Of course some people may dont like it if they would see or get talked to because other people do more damage then they self, but its not like if you do bad dps you cant change it , everyone can do decent dps if they know how. But first they need to know how are they doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andevom
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02-11-2016, 04:38 AMKaurieIndeed, I guess that was my point when I saidQuote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
As for being an FF tradition, I have very little experience in the FF franchise. I've played about half of FFX and that's it. It being a tradition holds little value to me. What is more important to me is that the resource-starved development team puts in their efforts into core content. If all of the core content was perfect, then sure, waste time on Gold Saucer stuff. However, we're getting less dungeons than previously, dungeons are less involved than previously, they didn't have enough time to properly test A3S/A4S damage and just released it anyway, they delayed relic by over half a year, and so on.Quote:
I think this is why the devs have a hard time implementing stuff, as we (the playerbase) can't really agree on what we want as a collective.
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02-11-2016, 05:35 AMKosmos992kI understand your points. Just as your gaming history and experience doesn't lead you to the tradition of minigames I was talking about, so my gaming history doesn't really lead me to raiding and end-game. As per your quote, the player base can't really agree on what we want collectively. So we end up with quickly implemented mini-games (which is fine) and less end-game content than core end-game players would like. I'll say that's fine too since it's not my thing to do. But I know you'll disagree because it spreads the dev resource more thinly than is ideal for any one type of content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurie
Unless their team grows a bit, that's always going to be the case. But then again, that's not necessarily a bad thing, smaller teams often make quicker and more effective decisions because they are not paralyzed by 'committee' decision making. Despite that thought, I agree that an increase in Dev resources on the core game side of things would be a very good decision on their part, but I'd like to see that happen without taking away resources from side quests, mini-games and other non-core content. -
02-11-2016, 06:41 AMWarlyx
i dont think the dummy / training room is wasted resources , however i think that Lord of vermillions and the new pvp systems are wasted resourices and time ...to something ppl will play on the 1 day and never touch again , training room will be the same for lots of ppl , but if that room helps 1 of every 100 players i would be more than happy.
Diadem could have been awesome....but.... :(