Can There Be More Dungeons Like Wanderer's Palace(HM)?

I ask this because when I think back on Wanderer's Palace (HM), there were some really nice things in that dungeon that dungeons just don't have anymore. And I wanted to go through all the things it has.

Unique Boss Fights:
1st Boss: The first boss, with weak gear is a good DPS/Healing check because if you can't destroy the spears fast enough, too many will be spawned and will cause a lot of damage. Even unsynced you can't ignore this mechanic. Then there's the annoying ram. Unique.. but annoying..

2nd Boss: This boss is a nice healing check and memory/awareness check. There are no other bosses in the entire game with a mechanic similar to the Sacred Totems. Multiple debuffs, and even buffs can be given through totems and then the colors are different each time you go in the dungeon. Frog, Damage Up, Heavy, Fire Resistance Down. Think I may have missed one. Then there's the tank buster attack the boss does whcih requires healing.

3rd Boss: I actually like the 3rd boss a lot because it has a good amount of mechanics. Tyrannic "Whatever" requires players to stay close to him because the AoE is too big to get out of when far away. Then there's Doom. Another mechanic not seen anywhere else in the game. Yes Doom itself works the same. You die. But you need to be healed to full HP to survive. DRKs biting off this guy's attack.. The boss also has Black Lung I think it's called, that extends the range of the Totem sickness on players. If you don't read the description it's impossible to know what it does. Ah, and the totems, lets not forget the totems. If the DPS is bad almost the entire room will be filled. So that's something to look out for. There's even two types of totems. One to destroy and one that's left alone. AND there's adds.

Dungeon Itself
Totem Mechanic: After the first boss there are totems the enemies need to be pulled out of because they are buffed while inside it.

Releasing Tonberries: A nice little piece in the dungeon. Getting the key and releasing them.. and then they open the door and stuff.

Slimes and Poison: Another piece of the dungeon that requires the players to do something + kill enemies. At least there's something to it.


I like this dungeon because there is love put into it. You do it so many times in the expert roulette(Past), you get tired of it. But when I compare it to the HW dungeons... there's nothing to them except kill kill kill. Boss fights are super simple with barely any mechanics. Except Tioman and Charibert. They're pretty mechanic/heals heavy compared to the other stuff in HW. I love those bosses. WP (HM) actually makes you DO stuff.

3.1 Dungeons are especially bland. Just straight killin' and tank and spank. But there is an exception. One of my favorite dungeon bosses in FFXIV so far is the Queen Hawk. I like this boss a lot. It actually makes healers HEAL instead of standing around. It makes tanks USE cooldowns because Stinger Cell sucks. And it makes players be aware of the arena with Ally(aaah.. so many deaths...). Lots of dodging with Assail and poison, DPS check, AoE damage. This boss is just better than the others imo. More wipes on this boss with DF teams than any other boss.



Lastly... I really miss having all the rooms and places to explore that the 2.0 pre-50 dungeons had.. I dont know why the pro-50 dungeons have achievements when you can't NOT complete them.


Thoughts?

I want more dungeons with original mechanics in general! >.>

Like:
Copperbell mines: Collect TNT to make your way with explosions!
Haukke Manor: Find keys to open rooms!
That ice fortress wich we have to use canons to that gigant turtle - our gears dont play a role!

- look out for falling traps
- move forward or that something behind you gets you
- dungeons with multiple floors with dead ends
etc..


But now: Since HW(and earlyer) all we get is average tube dungeons with no mechanics =.=
We only have to dodge enemys atks. Not even those new "Expert runs" are a challenge :I


I would like a: - (just some examples)
- touch this to increase your damage for an amounts of time x10 - because that boss has also much more HP + high HP reg!
(I liked that on Final Monk quest! Was pretty epic I can say!)
- A boss fight where boss have multiple atk points - each part does something after defeat or still not defeated!
- Use this field device to make the boss vulnerable - or else damage is only 10% gain
- A battle arena that changes/breaks during the fight/in dungeon
- A twisted dungeon with different gravity law/time and space

WP > WP HM

The entire set of 50 dungeons I've really enjoyed. It's the fact that there are a lot of trash, that makes people gather everything up. Then it turns into one huge AoE battle of dodging and doing attacks. Melee DPS either just eating the AoE or having to stop, dodge and go back.

Take WP, there shouldn't be so many groups of 3. That's just encouraging people to gather stuff already and AoE it down. Instead remove a set and place in a larger Tonberry to fight. One that buffs others who are near it somehow. This would stop the massive gathering, but in return the removal of so many sets of adds between bosses. From the start to the first boss. I think if you had the first set of 3 one being a smaller , then a large Tonberry who had a job say being a Bard, singing songs and buffing. Then at the gate have just two smaller Tonberries who drop the items needed.

Like Dusk Vigil, I enjoy that one. You have your sets of 3, but one is a bomb that can be annoying. Then you have your larger mob, then another set of 3. The frost debuff is nice too. The Vault is by far my favorite, even though there's a large gathering of mobs, they're rather weak. Still, when you see the BLM one you know you need to take him down because he's going to be annoying. DPS get to him fast. In situations like that I would have the BLM give aoe Aether Spikes so all who damage him / anyone near him gets hurt..

Lol but I think of really cruel things..I'd add bees back in the wall! I would love Primal dungeons. Like running through an inferno based dungeon just to find Ifrit EX waiting.

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Originally Posted by Toguro

Lastly... I really miss having all the rooms and places to explore that the 2.0 pre-50 dungeons had.. I dont know why the pro-50 dungeons have achievements when you can't NOT complete.

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Those were fun, you had to get a party to go in and get relic. Or when you walked in and you saw all the NPC's fighting each other but didn't know what to do.

Every dungeon though really is beautiful and interesting in its own way, just after running it so many times you get worn out. Then you take a nice long break, suddenly you don't mind returning to AV.

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Originally Posted by Leigaon

I would like more of those things, reasons to be forced to stop speed runs and the bosses being unique.

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Well...those debuff thingies are generally used to "speed up" runs, rather than slow them down...

Personally, I find bosses to be "unique enough". There are only so many things you "can" let the players do.
1. "Kill"
2. "Click activator"
3. "Move"
4. "Use specific skill"

All you can really do is to mix&match them, put them on timers, assign them to conditions etc. But there's only so many combinations you can do it with and if SE manages to make something entirely unique with it at this point, kudos to them.

I think WP HM could have been improved by the totems drawing the party in and surrounding the area with a forcefield until the enemies within are defeated. That would stop a lot of Leeroys looking to show off.

I'd like to see something from WP NM that has a mob you can't fight and chases you (or just patrols) throughout the dungeon again.

I know I always enjoy turning into a cute little froggie during a boss fight. :-)

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Well...those debuff thingies are generally used to "speed up" runs, rather than slow them down....

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They are there to speed things up, but also there to slow other things down. It's crazy! I guess it would be better to say add reasons not to skip these debuff thingies, or other wonderful mechanics that the devs have put in.

There is a lot of creativity that has been put in for a lot of these bosses. They are unique enough..or... "unique enough" I guess. We can click, dodge, duck and roll and manderville our way through bosses. Oh they'll always surprise us. That I don't worry about! Like the snowcloak boss, the use of the giant snowballs was wonderful. They really do a good job.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

I think WP HM could have been improved by the totems drawing the party in and surrounding the area with a forcefield until the enemies within are defeated. That would stop a lot of Leeroys looking to show off.

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That's an idea..right now people just take them and pull everything away, so it means nothing.

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Originally Posted by Hayward

I think WP HM could have been improved by the totems drawing the party in and surrounding the area with a forcefield until the enemies within are defeated. That would stop a lot of Leeroys looking to show off.

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Pulling packs of mobs to make a dungeon run faster is apparently showing off now and makes you a Leeroy, sure thing, fam.

Anyway, I think you missed the point of the totems. They're basically there to drop a hint on how the last boss works. "Hey, I noticed that the monsters become really hard to kill when they're inside the totem. We could kill the totem, or just move them away from it and save time. Oh look, the last boss also drops totems, using what we've learned, lets move him away from it."

I think 3.1 dungeons were better than the original HW dungeons for sure. I think the dungeons have a good variety of different mechanics. I wouldnt call each dungeon a tank n spank.

They try to make the dungeons dynamic, but not kill you with so many mechanics to where you never want to run it again.

I think SE is doing a good job so far with dungeons. However I would like a dungeon that has multiple routes. That way it isnt the same path every single time.

The only reason why people just pull through all the totems now is because people are too strong they can just do gigantic pulls. Back in the day I didn't see people do this. Most teams I was in didn't pull huge because the enemies were pretty strong.

I think the point of them was to tell the player to pull them out though. But not do Godzilla pulls or because you could die.


Another dungeon I really like is Keeper Of The Lake. That dungeon has a pretty good amount of stuff in it. And it has that dreaded magitek ship... That definitely takes the Most Annoying Boss Of All Time award for me...

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Originally Posted by Derio

I think 3.1 dungeons were better than the original HW dungeons for sure. I think the dungeons have a good variety of different mechanics. I wouldnt call each dungeon a tank n spank.

They try to make the dungeons dynamic, but not kill you with so many mechanics to where you never want to run it again.

I think SE is doing a good job so far with dungeons. However I would like a dungeon that has multiple routes. That way it isnt the same path every single time.

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interesting. I personally hated the 3.1 dungeons after being in them for 10 minutes each. They're a couple of the most boring dungeons in the game imo. If I were to classify dungeons into fun, boring and other, here would be my list (blue = heavensward dungeons).

Fun Dungeons:
Haukke Manor
Brayflox's Longstop
The Sunken Temple of Qarn
The Wanderer's Palace
Amdapor Keep
Copperbell Mines (Hard)
Haukke Manor (Hard)
Halatali (Hard)
Brayflox's Longstop (Hard)
Hullbreaker Isle
Tam-Tara Deepcroft (Hard)
Sastasha (Hard)
The Sunken Temple of Qarn (Hard)
The Wanderer's Palace (Hard)
Amdapor Keep (Hard)
The Aetherochemical Research Facility

Boring Dungeons
The Tam-Tara Deepcroft
The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak
The Stone Vigil
Dzemael Darkhold
The Aurum Vale
Pharos Sirius
The Lost City of Amdapor
The Stone Vigil (Hard)
Snowcloak
The Dusk Vigil
Sohm Al
The Aery
The Vault
The Great Gubal Library
Saint Mocianne's Arboretum
Pharos Sirius (Hard)


Other Dungeons
Sastasha
Copperbell Mines
Halatali
Cutter's Cry
The Keeper of the Lake
Neverreap
The Fractal Continuum

I think what dungeons need more of in general is mechanics outside of boss fights, most of the dungeons lack any real hazards or trash mechanics and often boil down to pull adds in large group, aoe and dodge aoe every now and then. WP normal had you carefully moving around to avoid tonberries, many earlier dungeons you had to be careful with how many mobs you pulled or what packs to pull, or had environmental hazards that made you pay attention to where you positioned mobs, certain mobs posed particular dangers you had to be rid of. Even raids lacked a lot of these things and rather than create anything intersting with Alexander S they just cut most of it out and made you start at the bosses.

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Originally Posted by Toguro

Then there's Doom. Another mechanic not seen anywhere else in the game. Yes Doom itself works the same. You die. But you need to be healed to full HP to survive.

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Well not exactly. There are many variations of this mechanic, even if under different names.

Doom, in itself, pops up in The Sunken Temple of Qarn during the fight with the Teratotaur and in The World of Darkness when fighting the Angra Mainyu. Both these fights used the concept of standing on some spot to remove the Doom debuff. The concept of being healed to 100% to remove a debuff first appeared in Pharos Sirius during the Siren fight with the debuff called Siren's Song.

In essence, this mechanic was borrowed from previous mechanics either in name, likeness, or a combination of both.

I will agree that the use of totems in this dungeon was refreshing. I'd like to see more of this style of trap-type mechanics in future dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Dungeon rankings

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Mostly agree but I'd bump cutters, AV, DD and pre nerf pharos to fun. The vault and stone vigil were fun for me on the first few runs through. I'm also one of the few that liked nevereap.

I would like more soft-mechanics then hard mechanics... Hard mechanics with their walls that block you off are extremely boring to be honest. I would also like contested zones.

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Originally Posted by VargasVermillion

Mostly agree but I'd bump cutters, AV, DD and pre nerf pharos to fun. The vault and stone vigil were fun for me on the first few runs through. I'm also one of the few that liked nevereap.

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I definitely can't agree with AV/DD :P Cutters has been fun in the past, so maybe it would be better under "Other" for me.

The Vault was incredibly fun my first run, and incredibly boring afterward. I believe I just loved the first run because I was so immersed in the amazing Heavensward Storyline. I do like Neverreap as well :) Not nearly as much as the other 'fun' dungeons though, and will admit I was worried about placing it under fun for fear of public shaming :P

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

interesting. I personally hated the 3.1 dungeons after being in them for 10 minutes each. They're a couple of the most boring dungeons in the game imo.

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They're two of my favorite dungeons we've gotten in all of 3.0. For me, dungeons that I don't like are fairly rare, though.

Off the top of my head, the only ones I really dislike are Dzemael Darkhold, Aurum Vale, Sastasha HM, Copperbell HM, Stone Vigil HM, and Neverreap. The first three I mostly dislike because of Duty Finder frustrations, and the last three I dislike mechanically. I really hate fights that depend on either operating a cannon/vehicle or picking up something and moving it. In the case of Neverreap, I mainly dislike it because of the tornadoes and how they interact with the fact that the server doesn't continually update your position (I hate Ramuh EX for the same reason though).

Stone Vigil HM is absolutely my least favorite dungeon though, both because of the cannon fight and how it essentially feels like the same dungeon as Stone Vigil.

There are other dungeons I don't particularly like but don't really dislike (Tam-Tara Deepcroft HM and Hullbreaker Isle, for instance). The dungeons I like best tend to be either atmospheric or involve something that's a favorite of mine (like the Amdapor dungeons for general atmosphere, both WPs because I love Tonberries). I also generally like most of the other HW dungeons, except perhaps Sohm Al and Vault: the former because, of all things, the music, and the latter because I ran it to death leveling stuff (but it's pretty cool otherwise).

demon wall boss fight pre nerf with the bees was my favourite lol ran it without knowing the bees were removed and it was ._.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Pharos Sirius (Hard)

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This one... sigh*. In my opinion this is one of the most boring dungeons they have ever created. There is literally like nothing in this dungeon besides rehashed stuff. VERY rehashed stuff.

Kill slimes and crystals -> boss -> kill kobolds -> kill more kobolds -> kill big kobold(boss) -> kill kobolds and rock monster -> kill kobolds before they destroy rock... they can be aggro'd so the mechanic is worthless -> boss(Best part of the dungeon)

To me, the Arboretum is 3x better than Pharos Sirius (Huggybear Mode)