Thank you SE!

I am being 100% serious. I LOVE Wanderer's Minuet and everything that comes with it! The sheer boredom of 2.X Bard feels like a complete fever dream! Thank you for such an actually engaging job!

Could someone explain the joke? It went over my head because Lalafell.

It could be serious or a joke..unsure.... the playerbase here is weird. Assuming its serious... I actually dont mind WM.. it hasn't changed that much, but I did find that 2.0 bard was more.. engaging, with all the movement. (which was totally not needed, but fun regardless). I find I can more easily fall asleep while doing my bard roulettes.....

2 fools got baited.

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Originally Posted by Ragology

Could someone explain the joke? It went over my head because Lalafell.

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Maybe, just maybe there are people who like the job?

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Originally Posted by kalasnikov

2 fools got baited.

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Mayhaps the fool is you for replying? :P

Even though this might be a sassy thread, I will admit that WM help with pacing out my skills.

Really depends on who you ask, but the general census is that the design of WM for brd is pretty botched, and you can't really argue that the cast times work against brd's original function of oGCD resets

Aye, it certainly aint smooth. It works.. but not as it should...

Yeah, like I said in another post, I'm so close to going back to BRD main again. Took some getting used to, but I feel like WM makes me play the job better.

It's pretty heavily flawed, like alot of DD jobs post-HW. Brd, Mch, Blm, Drg, and Mnk are all now heavily penalized for moving. in a dodge-based, mechanics-heavy game..where 90% of content is a damage check and you fail for not meeting the damage..its like SEs left hand doesnt know what the right is doing.

Want a game thats heavily into mechanics and is reactionary? thats fine. Want a game thats got complex rotations and needs 100% constant applications without interruption? A-OK.

But they do not go together..its like oil and water, both are just fine on their own, but they do.not.mix.

The only two jobs I know that is not truly penalized for movement is summoner and ninja. I believe fights are not suppose to be centered around all the DD's having 100% upkeep time on dps. That was why the bard was changed makes believe that. And bard is heads over heels in a better spot then a machinist who has to manage procs, mini cooldowns and a stupid charge up mechanic that requires most burst in the window frame to maximize damage along with proper turret placement for mediocre dps on par with a paladin and tanks. Be glad you are not a mechanist.

See, that'd make sense if they also didnt make 90% of content little more than dps checks. when they make you not only fight against the enemy, its mechanics, AND your own job abilities...then make you auto-wipe for not doing enough damage..Unless you're in the top 0.5% of hardcore endgame raiders, you're just SOL until you outgear the content. By that point, good luck finding anyone whose still interested in it. They've gone and pissed all over 90% of the player base so the top few find things more of a 'challenge'.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

And bard is heads over heels in a better spot then a machinist who has to manage procs, mini cooldowns and a stupid charge up mechanic that requires most burst in the window frame to maximize damage along with proper turret placement for mediocre dps on par with a paladin and tanks. Be glad you are not a mechanist.

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Not the Best Machinist, but defintly up there. People just need to get better.
http://i.imgur.com/OUvvyXB.png

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Originally Posted by Arienal

They've gone and pissed all over 90% of the player base so the top few find things more of a 'challenge'.

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SE Thought the playerbase was better than it actually is. They didn't tune it up because they top players were asking for it, a lot of the midcore people, myself included wanted to see the stuff get a bit tougher as well, but in the end, it took my entire raid group being i208/209 to beat A3S and its ridiculous DPS check. We got what we asked for, and the humble pie came back to bite us in the ass. Live and learn

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Originally Posted by Arienal

x

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Actually, I cannot agree with you.
In my opinion BRD is only being penalized for moving too much. I still can move at 80% of cast and then whole GCD which is more than enough for dodging all the AoEs, if there are mechanics which need more movement I can put Feint instead of Heavy Shot for one GCD and if there is even more movement (taking debuff from tank in A3s, moving to laser or feeding add at A4s) I can still turn my WM off.
I have played both MMOs that were rotation heavy but mostly stationary and MMOs that required lots of moving, but had no depth in rotations. For me both types were really boring. I enjoy that I have to master my rotation and keep calm even while I have lots of AoEs and mechanics thrown at me. If all the fights were either DPS heavy or Mechanics/AoE heavy I don't really think it would be challenging to me.

EDIT:

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Originally Posted by Nyghtmarerobu

SE Thought the playerbase was better than it actually is. They didn't tune it up because they top players were asking for it, a lot of the midcore people, myself included wanted to see the stuff get a bit tougher as well, but in the end, it took my entire raid group being i208/209 to beat A3S and its ridiculous DPS check. We got what we asked for, and the humble pie came back to bite us in the ass. Live and learn

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I am not in the team that is saying that AS is too hard and I think what people mostly wanted was more midcore content rather than harder raid. As I see it SE only wanted to slap groups who cleared coil so fast and they slapped everyone else instead.
We have faceroll easy stuff, then we have Thordan and then Savage. They should rather focus on the difficulty between faceroll and Thordan and keep raids somewhere between Coil and Alex Savage.
It wouldn't really hurt people if we had 1 faceroll dungeon and 1 harder dungeon that would require people to actually play, the only thing that could happen would be overall improvement of FFXIV audience.

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Originally Posted by Nyghtmarerobu

Not the Best Machinist, but defintly up there. People just need to get better.

...
SE Thought the playerbase was better than it actually is.

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1.1k is actually a relatively low number compared to others that can hit around 1.2k or higher depending on the fight. Nor does it really account for the problem that brd is still typically better with better raid dps from full.


As for savage, they have already admitted that they had overturned it more than they had liked, and the clear rates, the numerical requirement and even accepted clear strategy for a4s shows it. I'm sure you needed to push out some form of healer dps at i208 to meet the checks, even after your 6th clear where you can one shot through the mechanics

Didn't say machinist could not do decent damage. It is the amount of management compared to the bard that is an insult. Yout have a lot tougher rotation then bard for bringing worse utility and dps.

As someone with ADHD and inability to adapt I personally cannot stand WM and my already sub-optimal DPS got even worse since this skill was added, it's all SE's fault. I can't even do DPS while moving and I can't move AT ALL with WM up and I'm just a turret. So boring and stupid, SE.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

Didn't say machinist could not do decent damage. It is the amount of management compared to the bard that is an insult. Yout have a lot tougher rotation then bard for bringing worse utility and dps.

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I really have always wondered what this mythical management and difficult rotation is that every MCH is such a diva over, it's rather boring outside of opener/3 minute bursts. I find it easier to manage than BRD and I've mained BRD since launch.

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Originally Posted by aabe

As someone with ADHD and inability to adapt

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Originally Posted by aabe

it's all SE's fault.

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:rolleyes: huehuehue

Mythical management over bard? Wildfire being needlessly complex should spell it out as for starters. Screw Wildfire up and machinist dps falls even more behind bard then it does already.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

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Your wildfires don't need to be perfect every time. There is room for error like there is on every other job in the game. I swear you'd think the complaints around this place are made by bleeding-edge raiders who aim for 100% optimal damage.

Needlessly complex? How do you screw up Wildfire? In fact there are no real special rules to WF besides to use your longer buffs first and to make sure you aren't reapplying hot/lead during it. I'm pretty sure if I was still 9 years old I'd be able to grasp this concept
at the end of 15 seconds it does part of the damage I did over 15 seconds, so I need to do as much damage as I can in that 15 seconds
It might be complex relative to other things in the game, but this game is mostly very simple. If that's needlessly complex or complex at all to you, this is not your game. I don't mean that to sound as harsh as it does but I mean come on, NIN Mudras must be rocket science to you. This is exactly what I was talking about when I used the word "diva"

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Originally Posted by aabe

It might be complex relative to other things in the game, but this game is mostly very simple. If that's needlessly complex or complex at all to you, this is not your game.

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Originally Posted by aabe

As someone with ADHD and inability to adapt I personally cannot stand WM and my already sub-optimal DPS got even worse since this skill was added, it's all SE's fault. I can't even do DPS while moving and I can't move AT ALL with WM up and I'm just a turret. So boring and stupid, SE.

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Just gonna say that you don't have much room to be throwing punches.

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Originally Posted by aabe

As someone with ADHD and inability to adapt

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One, sorry about your ADHD, but if you can't adapt, that is your problem.
Two, it's not SE's job to look out for your ADHD. That's on you.
That's like me saying "take out all tanking in the game because I absolutely hate it and can't adapt to doing it".
...see how that sounds

I mean, that's kind of a false equivalence, though. It's not unreasonable to want a game to be more accessible in a way that isn't at anyone else's expense, like for instance having a higher-mobility class for people who prefer all of their difficulty not just coming from movement mechanics. That's not the same thing as taking an entire job out of the game.

I have ADHD myself (which limits my reaction times) and live in Australia (which means I have inescapably high latency) and those two factors together meant that 2.X BRD's playstyle was literally the only way I had of earning my clear on high-end content, which is now lost to me because SE decided they wanted to unnecessarily limit the scope of their game design. And even then I'd probably have struggled on with BRD if WM wasn't broken and inorganic from design theory all the way through to graphical output.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

Just gonna say that you don't have much room to be throwing punches.

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I can't tell if you took the extremely blatant and tryhard sarcasm seriously or if you're legitimately doubting my credibility but either way have a picture of me

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Originally Posted by aabe

I can't tell if you took the extremely blatant and tryhard sarcasm seriously or if you're legitimately doubting my credibility but either way have a picture of me

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Sarcasm doesn't translate well to text, esp in consideration that some people may actually have adhd and can have trouble to play because of it. Otherwise i don't see the point of your post.

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Originally Posted by aabe

Your wildfires don't need to be perfect every time. There is room for error like there is on every other job in the game. I swear you'd think the complaints around this place are made by bleeding-edge raiders who aim for 100% optimal damage.

Needlessly complex? How do you screw up Wildfire? In fact there are no real special rules to WF besides to use your longer buffs first and to make sure you aren't reapplying hot/lead during it. I'm pretty sure if I was still 9 years old I'd be able to grasp this concept
[I]at the end of 15 seconds it does part of the damage I did over 15 seconds, so I need to do as much damage as I can in that 15 seconds"

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I
f SE turned barrage/emp into a charge up skill that depended on 14 seconds of before hand burst you would see an uproar at the nerf. I am not saying remove the mechanic fully but give players the chance to prematurely fire the wildfire blast off during fights with bosses going invuln before wildfire goes off.

Not sure what you achieve calling me a diva.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

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If a job that is miles away from needing a nerf got nerfed there would be an uproar? Got me there mane

You have to keep in mind I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you that MCH can/should have some changes done to make it less of a chore to play. I'm not trying to achieve anything really; the reason I say "diva" is because the vast majority of MCH players I run into that have complaints seem to think their job is the hardest thing ever and you gotta put in SOOOO much more effort than everyone else and still come out subpar in the end and blahblahblah it's really not very difficult to play or complicated.

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Originally Posted by aabe

you gotta put in SOOOO much more effort than everyone else and still come out subpar in the end and blahblahblah it's really not very difficult to play or complicated.

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Compared to BRD, it really is. Wildfire is so central to the job's DPS right now that if you botch a wildfire and end up with two mildfires you may as well resign yourself to the toilet the rest of the run. It's a lot more work than BRD for practically identical numbers.

Also, I know wildfire detonates through the invul on the Rubricatus in CM, does it work on any other bosses that don't jump to clear the debuff?

If the boss isn't a valid target ( focus target doesn't even show their name like the first boss in neverfun) or they have an invulnerability buff ( like living liquid during their taxis), wildfire won't deal it's damage.

Theres a lot more factors that can get in the way of a perfect wildfire versus( timing accommodations and having any other target in range means you are losing at least 100 potency off the bat) other jobs with its burst, and I'd say that it's the most detrimental dps loss if it does not run its full course (since the damage is dealt at the end versus it being spread throughout)

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Originally Posted by aabe

If a job that is miles away from needing a nerf got nerfed there would be an uproar? Got me there mane

You have to keep in mind I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you that MCH can/should have some changes done to make it less of a chore to play. I'm not trying to achieve anything really; the reason I say "diva" is because the vast majority of MCH players I run into that have complaints seem to think their job is the hardest thing ever and you gotta put in SOOOO much more effort than everyone else and still come out subpar in the end and blahblahblah it's really not very difficult to play or complicated.

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It's really not hard to get you as you say. Your arguments are nothing more then temper tantrums.

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Originally Posted by Vlady

It's really not hard to get you as you say. Your arguments are nothing more then temper tantrums.

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Actually my arguments were clearly spelled out on the last page, the only counterargument you've provided is this and a senseless analogy.

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Originally Posted by fm_fenrir

Compared to BRD, it really is. Wildfire is so central to the job's DPS right now that if you botch a wildfire and end up with two mildfires

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but thats the thing, what do you consider "botching" a wildfire? You messed up and had to reapply dot/buff during? You accidentally forgot to use an off gcd during? You accidentally used it as the boss was about to jump? That's ignoring the fact that said mistakes have equivalents on other jobs, and wildfire doesn't actually contribute all that much to MCH's overall DPS to where making a mistake during it is anywhere near as bad as it's constantly been implied.

If wildfire doesn't go off at all, that's a ~25% damage cooldown wasted with no compensation, versus a 25% buff to all damage. It's equivalent but I wouldn't say it's relatively weighted the same.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

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And that cooldown contributes to ~5-8% of your overall DPS through a quick look at any FFlogs parse so missing one out of a ten minute fight is not a loss anywhere on the scale of what's implied here. Making a mistake such as letting a wildfire drop is silly since downtime happens at the same time every time outside of % pushes which are honestly even more obvious. It just goes back to what I was saying that it's not really an easy mistake to make.

The way wildfire works makes the job more tedious than others in the case of adds and downtime and whatnot, and a MCH doing amazingly will do much better than a MCH playing average, but it's contribution is way overstated here.

I personally haven't touched Bard since I hit 60 and went through A1-4 Normal. I just don't like the play style anymore. Call me a casual, but I don't like playing casters. It's a shame because Bard was my favorite class. I've been trying other jobs to fill the void. Ninja and Astrologian have been pretty fun.