Bard's WP adjustment? What are they?!

EDIT: Oops. Just realized they were talking about a different skill. Boo Thought they meant Wanderer's Minuet for some reason. I just woke up so I guess my brain is all weird and I completely mistook WP for WM XD Ignore me >.>

Still the question remains, what are these adjustments? :O

Likely increase duration (e.g. a 60 seconds) so it's actually useful. Other than that they will probably just change the effect entirely.

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Originally Posted by UBERHAXED

Likely increase duration (e.g. a 60 seconds) so it's actually useful. Other than that they will probably just change the effect entirely.

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I'm such a nut xD Didn't realize they talked about a different skill. I thought it was about wanderer's minuet not the barrier skill I never use anyway :P

I read Wanderer's Minuet also! o.0 The power of wishful thinking....

Concerning WP, it would be amazing if they made it an instant ability with a cooldown, instead of the cast time abomination that it is. I can think of a dozen fights where I would enjoy some status effect protection, but never at a sacrifice of 1.5 GCDs. Even better if it could purge status effects after they've been placed, like a free esuna every 45 seconds.

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

Concerning WP, it would be amazing if they made it an instant ability with a cooldown, instead of the cast time abomination that it is. I can think of a dozen fights where I would enjoy some status effect protection, but never at a sacrifice of 1.5 GCDs. Even better if it could purge status effects after they've been placed, like a free esuna every 45 seconds.

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even instant meh , i would prefered a "goad" skill , or single target mp refresh .....

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

even instant meh , i would prefered a "goad" skill , or single target mp refresh .....

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Or a powering song, since that's the kind of song they where searching for

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

even instant meh , i would prefered a "goad" skill , or single target mp refresh .....

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I think being the only dps class that can remove a paralysis, poison stack, or sleep effect would be both handy and unique.

As for goad, that skill falls in with the complaint "why do new classes not share their abilities as cross class skills?".

What.. does WP work on? I've yet to find a real viable use.. most enemy skills are uneffected..

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Originally Posted by mb52139

What.. does WP work on? I've yet to find a real viable use.. most enemy skills are uneffected..

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Warrior's Berserk Pacification is what I've seen it used for most.

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Originally Posted by xLucia

I'm such a nut xD Didn't realize they talked about a different skill. I thought it was about wanderer's minuet not the barrier skill I never use anyway :P

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That's why it's being adjusted, so you will use it. Lol.

Glad they're keeping WM as it is, leveling my bard on my alt and I already love that skill.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

That's why it's being adjusted, so you will use it. Lol.

Glad they're keeping WM as it is, leveling my bard on my alt and I already love that skill.

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I don't mind WM but I'm not a fan of the castbar. In every game I played, archers did not have a castbar on all/most of their skills. It was usually only 1 or 2 skills that were casted, the rest was instant, and that's what I think about when I think about an archer class. It feels a bit misplaced to give archers (and gunners too, btw) a cast time.

That said, I do like the concept of WM with the damage increase and certain skills you can only use when WM is turned on, and I've gotten used to the cast bar by now. But that doesn't mean I don't miss the instant attacks that bards used to have :( I always played archers because of their instant skills, being able to move as you attack when movement was needed, and not have to worry about casts.

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Originally Posted by xLucia

I don't mind WM but I'm not a fan of the castbar. In every game I played, archers did not have a castbar on all/most of their skills. It was usually only 1 or 2 skills that were casted, the rest was instant, and that's what I think about when I think about an archer class. It feels a bit misplaced to give archers (and gunners too, btw) a cast time.

That said, I do like the concept of WM with the damage increase and certain skills you can only use when WM is turned on, and I've gotten used to the cast bar by now. But that doesn't mean I don't miss the instant casts bards used to have :(

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Of course, I'm just saying it could be a lot worse. With stutter stepping it's not that big of a hit to mobility.

For aesthetics, I don't see it much as casting, more focusing to aim your shot. I think it's cool, and Empyral Arrow is <3.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

Of course, I'm just saying it could be a lot worse. With stutter stepping it's not that big of a hit to mobility.

For aesthetics, I don't see it much as casting, more focusing to aim your shot. I think it's cool, and Empyral Arrow is <3.

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It does make sense that you aim at your target before you shoot the arrows, but this is a fantasy game. Since when does fantasy have logic? :P After all, as a bard u should be so pro with ur bow that u dont need the 1,5 sec cast time to aim :P

I'm guess just too used to archers being instant cast attackers that, in my mind, they just don't work with cast times. I prefer fastpaced combat and cast times makes it feel slow. If I wanted cast times I'd have played a mage :3

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Originally Posted by mb52139

What.. does WP work on? I've yet to find a real viable use.. most enemy skills are uneffected..

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I'm really seconding a response to this. I was kind hoping to throw it on healers or something in case they derp up in fights with bad debuffs, but on a Void Ark run the other day I slapped it on both healers for Petrifaction and BOTH healers still got frozen. Very disappointing.

It's cool that it works on Warrior's Pacification though, at least.

Only reason to use WP is probably for WAR's pacification, never used it in Alex Savage anyways, because my WAR gets pacification a bit later than WP would last from before pull and no one in my static is dumb enough to ask me to do WP midfight (except moments when boss is untargetable, it would never make up for the DPS loss).

Unless they make it off global cooldown or completely rework it, I won't touch it anyways. Longer duration would make it viable for use before pull, but that's it.
If you give a DPS class skill that sacrifices so much DPS, you need to make that skill worthwhile. AKA don't let me lose more DPS than wars does with pacification cleansed. :cool:

What about Shadowbind? We never use that anymore. Could it at least deal a little damage?

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Originally Posted by Vivi_Bushido

What about Shadowbind? We never use that anymore. Could it at least deal a little damage?

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Bind in general needs a rework if they want to make it relevant for group play, so touching Shadowbind alone would be weird. There'd probably be no harm in giving binds durations closer to stuns and having it not be broken by damage.

As for WP, SE probably doesn't want to make another instacast "song". I kind of hope they rework it to some persistent effect, if MNK can have Dragon Kick and Mantra and SMN can have Virus, I don't see why WP couldn't be a simple damage redux or even the oft-teased regen.

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Originally Posted by Cetonis

Bind in general needs a rework if they want to make it relevant for group play, so touching Shadowbind alone would be weird. There'd probably be no harm in giving binds durations closer to stuns and having it not be broken by damage.

As for WP, SE probably doesn't want to make another instacast "song". I kind of hope they rework it to some persistent effect, if MNK can have Dragon Kick and Mantra and SMN can have Virus, I don't see why WP couldn't be a simple damage redux or even the oft-teased regen.

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They don't want bard to have damage reduction (they give these to the other jobs for balance). See 2.0 "rain of death" and (along with 2.0 B4B and internal release, and bards ease of handing mechanics, dodging, kiting, uptime, range, burst, and oGCD silence (required for T2)) why parties back then consisted of all ranged (i.e. just BLM and and bard). They had to induce shock therapy to quickly patch the issue (impede LB for stacking, change RoD, B4B, internal release) until they could make an expansion and allow for changes to completely fix it. Ask anyone who played in patch 2.0 (not the patches after, but RELEASE) if bard was broken. Either they agree, or didn't actually play at release.

Who didn't see a problem with parties of PLD, PLD (2 x HG and of course the only tank with damage reduction (wtf right?), WHM, WHM (Stronger heals with Cure 2 and 2 x Benediction, also scholar fairy scales with gear which just made launch not good for it), BLM, BLM, (AoE and single target damage was top and they are ranged and can kite, also had infinite MP for both single target and AoE rotations), Bard, Bard (because obviously brokeness noted above (read, the only class you need) plus the 3 songs gave BLM synergy and regen for healers and tanks (and itself)). Didn't help that bard did physical damage, so it was the perfect partner for BLM in T4...

[QUOTE=UBERHAXED;3549838]Snip/QUOTE]

Right, and SE's been terrified of Bard, and overcompensating for "mobility" in general, ever since. In the land of WM, and with Machinist having things like damage reduction and the ability to buff their own damage, and with changes to the way they design fights overall - at some point SE needs to stop carrying around the baggage of 2.0 and look at Bard for what it -is- today, and not what it used to be two and a half years ago.

Not sure what this has to do with machinist. Machinist is not bard in 2.0 and can have whatever is balance. This also has nothing to do with mobility. The reason why bard was good in 2.0 was because because it was better than carrying any other class in general. It was required to have a bard in your party in 2.0. That's how good it was. Your comparing adding holy to warrior (adding reduction to machinist) with adding holy to summoner.

I didn't say SE should be making Bard overpowered. I'm saying that it isn't strictly impossible for a defensive ability to be added without the class being instanly broken, because it's not 2.0 anymore.

You're not going to tell me that a persisting song that drains MP and gives -15% damage in exchange for a 20 potency regen tick or some such would somehow break the game. It'd be near useless, frankly, but at least it'd "always do something".

I just don't think a cast time + preventative Esuna is realistically workable, so I'm hoping SE goes some other direction assuming they aren't going to "cop out" and make another instant song.

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Originally Posted by xLucia

I don't mind WM but I'm not a fan of the castbar. In every game I played, archers did not have a castbar on all/most of their skills. It was usually only 1 or 2 skills that were casted, the rest was instant, and that's what I think about when I think about an archer class. It feels a bit misplaced to give archers (and gunners too, btw) a cast time.

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I think it would make more sense if they changed the attack animations to hold on the bowstring draw, not the reload like it is now.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I think it would make more sense if they changed the attack animations to hold on the bowstring draw, not the reload like it is now.

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yeah the casting animation if is here to stay at least make it look cool D:

and WP needs to be worth even having on the hotbars....even if that means once in a blue moon use... i still think brd 3.0 was rushed or at least feels like the dev team didnt waste the same time with it that with other jobs.....the whole work went into Smn , War , Drg, Drk no doubt , looking just at the new animations , how fluid and awesome this jobs are in 3.0.....

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Originally Posted by mb52139

What.. does WP work on? I've yet to find a real viable use.. most enemy skills are uneffected..

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I've used it to prevent the vulnerability stacks in the final boss of Void Ark. Especially on tanks who somehow always manage to get petrified. (I think I've used it to block being hit with petrification on myself once or twice in that fight, but those were insane runs so I can't swear that's what did it versus a PHEW! turned fast enough!)

I welcome the increased duration to WP. It will be nice to have more use for it. As far as Brd and mobility goes, I've found that Sidewinder, Feint, Bloodletter, RoD, Straight Shot, Iron Jaws, and Blunt Arrow are great for when mobility is necessary, such as avoiding AoEs, as all are instant shot attacks, and the 30% attack power increase from Wanderer's Minuet goes a long way towards increasing DPS even though it does add a cast time to some attacks. I see nothing wrong with Brd as it is currently, and I secondary main Brd and have been playing Brd far more than my main, Drk, lately.

As you can see there are an abundance of attacks that are instant shot attacks that can be used on the go so, to me, I don't see Brd as having lost it's mobility completely and I have adapted to play Brd, as it's intended to be played, after the acquisition of WM.

The only thing I question, because I can't test it at the moment, is if Straight Shot is instant shot, or if an instant shot Straight Shot only occurs when refreshing Straighter Shot. I would hate to have provided misinformation in regards to Straight Shot being instant shot when under the effect of Wanderer's Minuet.

My one gripe is Brd's lack of songs, and more importantly, lack of useful songs. I'm sure I'm not the only one who is growing tired of having songs available but no use to play them when running dungeons or doing other content. Most often I'll throw up Foe's just in case the healer in a dungeon run wants to dps regardless of whether or not said healer is actually doing any dps at all, but for the most part songs aren't needed. 8 and 24 man content allows for a better opportunity to use songs but for dungeon runs and FATE grinding songs are useless on most occasions.

I would like to see songs that buff the party or enfeeble mobs. Songs more akin to Brd from FFXI would be a welcome addition, in my humble opinion.

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Originally Posted by Ninster

I'm really seconding a response to this. I was kind hoping to throw it on healers or something in case they derp up in fights with bad debuffs, but on a Void Ark run the other day I slapped it on both healers for Petrifaction and BOTH healers still got frozen. Very disappointing.

It's cool that it works on Warrior's Pacification though, at least.

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Originally Posted by Celaine

I've used it to prevent the vulnerability stacks in the final boss of Void Ark. Especially on tanks who somehow always manage to get petrified. (I think I've used it to block being hit with petrification on myself once or twice in that fight, but those were insane runs so I can't swear that's what did it versus a PHEW! turned fast enough!)

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To add on to my account, it didn't prevent the vulnerabilty debuff either so... I'm curious as to how you got WP to work in your case. I'm about to run VA again to double-check this...

WP works on anything that can be esunad, so it'd work on something like throttle in a3s or paralyze on thordan. The problem is that it's a preventative means rather than the cure for it; you can't predict who throttle is going to hit, and quite frankly the cast time for paeon is longer than what it takes for a single cast of esuna. It's also a period of time where you aren't dpsing as a dps.

Unsure if mentioned or not, but If you put WP on a warrior with berserk up it prevents pacification!

Longer duration will still not make me consider putting it back on my bar.