When are we going to infiltrate the Garlean Empire?!

I see those crafty garleans and their border in the Shroud.... When are we going to start infiltrating the garlean empire? Don't they have large portions of the world occupied?

I guess once we deal the Nidhogg and his brood we can slowly worm are way into the many castrums in Eorzea.

With the knowledge that Yda and Papalymo are working with the Ala Mhigan resistance, I'd imagine we'd get more involved with Ala Mhigo-Garlean stuff soon.

It's still weird to me we only really enter Castrum Meridanium as a dungeon and sort of loading screen past Castrum Occidens.

Makes me wonder if Operation Archon was originally supposed to be a little more in depth instead of just 2 dungeons and a trial.

I'd rather we didn't - because Garlemald and its people deserve more than to be treated like fodder to be slaughtered. They're actually people with hopes, dreams and loved ones - which should realistically make it a big deal whenever the WoL confronts them because their only 'crime' is to be fighting on a different side for a cause that does not align with the WoL's twisted mentality and hypocritical self righteousness.

The obsession with Ala Mhigo is becoming rather tiresome to me as well. The Ala Mhigans are a violent, selfish people who sought to occupy Eorzea themselves before they were given a taste of their own medicine at the hands of Garlemald. If we do go to Ala Mhigo I would find it much more interesting if we have to put down a considerable amount of Ala Mhigans who seek to inflict all manner of atrocities upon innocent and 'guilty' Garleans alike as is common in their quest for vengeance. How many awful things have been done so far in the name of Ala Mhigo? Quite a few, given Ilberd's antics and the existence of The Corpse Brigade.

Any attempt to infiltrate Ala Mhigo at this time will result in displacing/killing numerous Garlean civilians. If that happens then I hope the story doesn't shy away from painting the Scions and WoL in a bad light. Killing off a few major characters along the way would be help immensely if they go down that route.

Ideally, though, I want to align with Garlemald itself. Or at least those who are loyal to their homeland and people but do not necessarily want to occupy Eorzea. The Final Fantasy series as a long history of having antagonists be morally complex and even completely justified in their actions. I see no reason why Garlemald can't be like Archades in FFXII.

Theodric, you realize the way you are describing Ala Mhigo, apart from being off in a few places, is exactly what you are saying you don't want them to do with Garlemald. It really sounds like you want the Garleans to be the protagonists and want to paint those with issues with them in a bad light to make them look better.

A few points.

The Ala Mhigans last actually tried to invade another Eorzean state 100 years ago. They haven't been aggressive to the other nations since they were beaten back. Infact there is probably very few people still alive that were alive when the Autumn war took place.

Secondly, Ala Mhigans have been painted as a flawed people but no worse than any of the other nationalities. You point out Ilberd and the Corpse Brigade (a group of former royal guard to a insane king who have turned bandit and the other Ala Mhigans either hate or see with contempt) and ignore the likes of Minfilia, Raubahn, probably Yda, Wilred and many more.

Thirdly, Ala Mhigo is an occupied country and has been for only about 15 years. More over the treatement of the Ala Mhigians in that time has been appaling. Lets be clear. The took youth from their parents and brainwashed them with Garlean propaganda, then had them kill their former loved ones. They forced conscription on the populous. They had women taken and used as 'entertainment' for their soldiers to the point where we know women who escaped this fate committed suicide rather than be recaptured.

Fourth, Ala Mhigo probably doesn't have many Garlean citizens since people of the occupied territories don't have the rights of a citizen. They are the very lowest caste of Garlean society.

Fifth, and this is a big one, the main difference between Garlemald and anyone else we are dealing with is Garlemald is trying to invade and subjugate everyone else. That makes Garlemald a bad. Considering the crap we put up with from the city states we would probably be more willing to work with Garlemald if they weren't busy trying to enslave the rest of the world.

Now as I said before, I think Garlemald probably has element we can work with but Garlemald as it exists now is going to need to see some changes for us to be able to work with them. I also doubt we will be killing many innocent Garleans and I would be surprised in the least if we at some stage in a liberation of Ala Mhigo have to actually protect Garlean innocents from hate filled Ala Mhigans. We certainly have had to kill off some Ishgardians in HW.

I think we will work with them eventually but its not going to happen over night or be a case of 'oh they weren't so bad after all'. I think we might run into more moderate groups in an Ala Mhigo expansion as the focus will be much more on Garlemald and it would be a fantastic time to set the groundwork for more in depth Garlemald development but if anything happens to them I suspect it will be much more likely Garlean hardliners either neutralising them for being soft or effectively removing their power leaving them unable to aid us.

I say we slaughter the garleans.

Eorzea (as well as the other continents) were all just minding their own business until the Garleans decided that they wanted to expand.

Primals were never a thing in the 6th Astral Era until the Garleans started taking over territories and massacring beast tribes; they massacred them prior to the Asciens teaching them primal summoning.

Lets not forget that Project Meteor was funded and supported by the Emperor himself. The project itself to re-discover the ancient magic Meteor.

If we're going to throw nations under the bus based on their past actions, then I say the same regarding the Garleans; whose Emperor had his own family members assassinated for reasons ... is this an action of an "enlightened" nation.

Well, we saw Ishgardians committing all sorts of atrocities in the name of their holy war against Nidhogg's brood. They murdered countless innocents in their misguided crusade and to ensure that the truth of the war did not come out. We're still seeing the consequences of all that and things may become even more morally dubious in the upcoming patches. Despite that they're quite clearly not rotten across the board, which can only apply to Garlemald as well if the developers intend them to be anything other than stereotypical bad guys which I firmly believe they aren't.


After all, Gaius had some pretty good points and not everybody in Garlemald supported the attempt to bring down Dalamud upon Eorzea. If influential Garleans think that then it stands to reason that many regular Garleans do too. As for conscription? Eorzea, too, does the same thing. Not to the same extent, perhaps, but Ul'dah and Ishgard are notorious for treating the downtrodden and poor terribly and quite a lot of Eorzeans are exceptionally racist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by myahele

Eorzea (as well as the other continents) were all just minding their own business until the Garleans decided that they wanted to expand.

---

Actually, we don't know that - and Eorzea, at least, wasn't minding it's own business given that Ala Mhigo sought to conquer the rest of Eorzea. Go back in the past and there's other conflicts too some of which I think are fairly recent. I vaguely recall tension and war between Hyur and Elezen, for example. Though that has seemingly dissolved since that point.

When it comes to Garlemald we've only seen and heard one side of the conflict. If the developers follow their current trend then we learn the full story it'll paint both sides in a morally grey rather than morally pure light - and I feel like that would be far more interesting and a better compromise over all.

Quote:

---

Ul'dah and Ishgard are notorious for treating the downtrodden and poor terribly

---

They should know their place. ;)

Also, I would add that you could see during the fight with Ultima Weapon that Gaius's aim was not wanton destruction (unlike our Paragon friend.)

I don't know why Ala Mhigo gets a free pass in these matters. It warred with other Eorzean nations and tried to conquer them, for reasons far less sensible than the Garleans possess no doubt, and now it has had a bitter taste of its own medicine. Personally, I just find most of it obnoxious.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

After all, Gaius had some pretty good points and not everybody in Garlemald supported the attempt to bring down Dalamud upon Eorzea. If influential Garleans think that then it stands to reason that many regular Garleans do too.

---

About that:

Alphinaud
The Garlean Empire believes that primals are an insufferable menace─that their mere existence is a threat to this very star. As such, they deem any action taken against the beast tribes to be justified by default.
Imagine then...if it became known that it was not only the beast tribes of Eorzea that could summon primals, but her civilized peoples as well, any lingering objections to the Eorzean campaign would vanish overnight.
Where before we had to contend with a single imperial legion, we could well find ourselves facing the combined might of all Garlemald...

Thanks to Ysayle, its very easy to infer that any 'reasonable' Garleans are about to go extinct.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lauront

I don't know why Ala Mhigo gets a free pass in these matters. It warred with other Eorzean nations and tried to conquer them, for reasons far less sensible than the Garleans possess no doubt, and now it has had a bitter taste of its own medicine. Personally, I just find most of it obnoxious.

---

Think of it less from the perspective of what the Ala Mhigans 'deserve' (which is a whole 'nother debate) and more from a pragmatic/strategic perspective. Its pretty clear that we can expect a ramp-up of Garlean aggression in the near future, probably even before 4.0. If so, we *cannot* afford to continue to allow a launching pad for their invasion in the form of Ala Mhigo. Liberating the city is as much a matter of deterring a full-blown invasion, as it is a matter of 'justice.'

Given all the dislike towards the Ala Mhigans, I think it would be funny if there was an undertone of 'We don't like you guys, but unfortunately we have to take back your city to keep Garlemald from killing us all.'

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Well, we saw Ishgardians committing all sorts of atrocities in the name of their holy war against Nidhogg's brood. They murdered countless innocents in their misguided crusade and to ensure that the truth of the war did not come out. We're still seeing the consequences of all that and things may become even more morally dubious in the upcoming patches. Despite that they're quite clearly not rotten across the board, which can only apply to Garlemald as well if the developers intend them to be anything other than stereotypical bad guys which I firmly believe they aren't.

---

I don't think Garleans are an evil race but their current rulers most certainly are antagonists. Later we may find a more moderate high ranking Garlean we can work with but right now its bad guys who hold the reins.

I would also point out that in general the people suffering from the actions of the Ishgardians are mostly other Ishgardians. Very few people knew the truth. Further Ishgard's situation is quite different in that it was in a war it couldn't get out of. Nothing short of Nidhogg's death and the Horde's defeat would end the war cause Nidhogg had no interest in every letting Ishgard off the hook even though the one who committed the sin had been dead for a thousand years.

Everything we have seen of Garlemald's expansion has been born out of a hunger for power, hubris and belief in Garlean superiority.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

After all, Gaius had some pretty good points and not everybody in Garlemald supported the attempt to bring down Dalamud upon Eorzea. If influential Garleans think that then it stands to reason that many regular Garleans do too. As for conscription? Eorzea, too, does the same thing. Not to the same extent, perhaps, but Ul'dah and Ishgard are notorious for treating the downtrodden and poor terribly and quite a lot of Eorzeans are exceptionally racist.

---

Gaius did have his good points but he also allowed atrocities to happen under his governance by his own Legion. You really think he had no idea where his conscripts were coming from and what was being done to the populous? If he didn't it completely undermines any credibility he had as a leader.

Also where has Eorzea used conscription? Gridania's forces are the united God's Quiver and Wood Wailers, Limsa Liminsa's armed forces mainly are formed from the former fighters of the various fleets and Ul'dah's Grand company is entirely made up of mercenaries and gladiators originally. The only case you could argue for a country using conscription is Ishgard and even then it doesn't seem extremely common.

Even if they did use conscription in none of the city states forced prostitution government sanctioned and in none of the city states are the governments guilty of taking youths, brainwashing them and having them kill their family members.

Do remember that people in occupied lands don't even have the rights of Garlean citizens.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

Actually, we don't know that - and Eorzea, at least, wasn't minding it's own business given that Ala Mhigo sought to conquer the rest of Eorzea. Go back in the past and there's other conflicts too some of which I think are fairly recent. I vaguely recall tension and war between Hyur and Elezen, for example. Though that has seemingly dissolved since that point.

---

The last major war between the city states of Eorzea was the Autumn war 100 years before the current timeline. No one was trying to invade anyone for a really long time in Eorzea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

When it comes to Garlemald we've only seen and heard one side of the conflict. If the developers follow their current trend then we learn the full story it'll paint both sides in a morally grey rather than morally pure light - and I feel like that would be far more interesting and a better compromise over all.

---

Eorzea is very morally grey. There is no question of that. The story of what happened leading up to the Garlean invasion of Ala Mhigo showed dark stuff happening.

The difference is Garlemald is the aggressor. There is nothing that changes that. They are the ones attacking and conquering. I think it would be a huge stretch to argue that all the conquered territories the Garleans have taken somehow antagonised Garlemald into having them attack.

If a guy walks up to you in the street who you barely know and have done nothing to and starts swinging their fists at your its pretty hard to argue they aren't the ones in the wrong. It's even harder to argue you are in the wrong for fighting back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Belhi

"All Garleans are super bad people, nothing will change that and we have to kill them all"

---

I think you are mistaken here. I agree with Theo, for now we have only seen one part of them. We only saw all their military strenght and brutality, and their Xenofobic emperor.

Lets see some facts. An empire is by all ways, a dictatorship. There no decomacri, the citizens have no rights, they cant do nothing. You really think everyone will be okay with that?
Remember how to Empire started, first it was a republic, shortly after the events of the autum war there was a coup d'état and the old goverment was wiped out. Tell me, you really think this was forgotten? That ow everyone accepts this and like it?
The point is here that we dont know, its mostly possible that lots of people within the empire dont like this at all but they cannot do nothing, probably scared beacuse if they try something they could get market as traitors.

( Germany during 2nd world war was a perfect example )

There more, when the first emperor die, all chaos was brought. It seems the empire was totally separated into different factions. The empire's structure isnt well organized as it seems and seems not to have a back up plan on serious situation.
Another and important thing I notice is that Lucia told us that his parents died on an uprising. What kind of uprising and where? Given that she and her family where pure blood, i doubt they living were on a taken country. The only thing remains is that they were living on the empire's core cities, where mostly for sure most population lives. So there clearly everything there is not shine and roses.

( If anyone saw Avatar: the last airbender will notice that this is mostly the same case. On the begining we all thought that the fire nation was the tipical evil canocical tipe of country, but on the 3rd book we see something very different on the inside of the nation. )

In like probably 4 years not even joking. We still have so much to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frederick22

/snip

---

I think you misquoted me a bit:P

I didn't state it in my above post though I probably should have but in other posts I have stated that I suspect there are more moderate factions within Garlemald but that Garlemald's leadership as it is today makes it an antagonist for us. I don't think that Garlemald is misunderstood as an aggressive power. The Garlean people aren't inherently evil but their current administration, it's expansionist policies and the way it treats conquered territories are.

I don't mind and hope we eventually see Garlean allies to the WoL. However I was mainly arguing against what I perceived to be Theodric's defence of Garlemald as an aggressive power.

The crimes I listed against Garlemald are quite valid. I don't think all Garleans are responsible for that any more than I think that all Garleans approve of it. Regardless its the reality of the Garlemald we have to deal with in relation to their intentions towards Eorzea. Until we can find moderates with the power, influence and willingness for us to be able to work with them Garlemald is our enemy.

I'm not sure it's wise to paint the leadership of Garlemald as 'evil'. Driven and heavy handed, certainly, but we do not yet fully understand their reasoning for acting the way that they do and seem to be working towards trying to 'save' Hydaelyn as a whole in their own way. They may very well be misguided, yes, but real world morality is always a dubious thing to apply to fantasy settings as they're not often the same. Magic, for example, as well as Primals, don't exist in the real world - so anything to do with them is by design going to be very morally grey on any side.

The persecution of the Beast Tribes is dubious, I'd agree - but at the same time Eorzeans themselves have done the exact same thing. The destruction of Doma? Again, dubious, but we don't know all the details. How many innocents were slain during the uprising, I wonder? Perhaps the situation was triggered by Domans committing atrocities only to be stamped down by the same forces they saw as scattered and ready to be exploited. It's also worth noting that many Domans willingly sided with Garlemald and that Garlean life may very well be better in many ways. If nothing else it's certainly more advanced in terms of technology.

Though at this point I feel like Doma was destroyed - off screen no less - purely for the sake of the FF6 reference. It was quite quickly forgotten and seemed more like a plot device to get the Au Ra to come to Eorzea. They could have simply decided to travel to the place in bulk due to some other event or decision though...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm not sure it's wise to paint the leadership of Garlemald as 'evil'.

---

The Emperor is evil, no question of that.

It is actually questionable to me that the Emperor is evil, from what little we've seen of him. At least, any more so than any other ruler is. From his perspective, the goal is to eliminate the primal threat and that may involve eliminating the beast tribes that summon them. Now, once the Garleans get wind of the fact that any Eorzean with a strong enough following can become a Primal (at least from what I can infer), then perhaps Garlemald may look to ramp up its aggression. Not all such individuals will be as well intentioned as Thordan.

As Theodric has said, the city-states have at various times sought to eliminate the beast tribes, as and when they were threatened by them. They're not as intelligent or civilised as the other races of Eorzea and can cause a hell of a lot of trouble when they summon Primals, so the perspective of pre-emptive aggression is sensible, to me, even if not entirely agreeable.

I guess it's safe to say that they say an alliance with Garlemald under current rulership is impossible.

The 6th Legatus and the crew stationed in Gration has all bore witness to Ysayle's transformation into the Primal Shiva and as well as the partnership between dragons.

In either case, in an effort to "help" Hydaelyn the Garleans have -ironically- weakened her: Battle of the Silver Tear Lake, Project meteor which ended up causing the 7th Umbral Era and lastly Ultima Weapon.

Now they're in Azys Lla

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by myahele

The 6th Legatus and the crew stationed in Gration has all bore witness to Ysayle's transformation into the Primal Shiva and as well as the partnership between dragons.

---

Devil's advocate, but technically, the idea that the Empire will gun down all Eorzeans now that they know that anyone can summon an "Eikon", and not just the Beast tribes is supposition by the Scions, not necessarily proven fact yet. In fact, Gaius seemed aware that the Twelve were invoked at the end of 1.0, so...

That said, while not Evil, the Empire certainly IS antagonistic. Their goals of conquest are hard to reconcile with our goals of Peace and freedom.

And of course the citizens of Garlemald are likely perfectly decent people likely being told nothing of the terrible things, and there are likely moderates in their military as well, And I'd love to see those people. However, the people we have seen thus far have not been those people. We've seen men of ambition, We've seen the insane, we've seen the violent.

But more to the point, at present they are dangerous. EVERY single time they use their might to improve things they only serve to make things worse. Silver Tear Falls, Purging the Beastmen, Dalimud, Ultima. Easy money says they're going to screw up with the Three Goddesses. I can't wait to see Wile E. Coyote's next plan.

I do hope they don't screw up and actually succeed at making the world a better place. We need a proper Garlean victory along the lines of Shinra defeating one of the Weapons in FF7. I bring this up a lot around these parts, I know, I'm so weary of the WoL securing victory after victory. Having the WoL fail at something and be saved (indirectly, perhaps) by a Garlean construct would be a pretty neat twist. It's a lot less tiresome and more intriguing than Hydaelyn's plot armour and blessing in my opinion.

I mean, technically speaking the Garleans have had a lot of victories. It's just not shown directly. They control a large portion of Hydaelyn, after all. They also managed to deal with Doma when it rebelled - though the specifics evade us.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

I do hope they don't screw up and actually succeed at making the world a better place. We need a proper Garlean victory along the lines of Shinra defeating one of the Weapons in FF7. I bring this up a lot around these parts, I know, I'm so weary of the WoL securing victory after victory. Having the WoL fail at something and be saved (indirectly, perhaps) by a Garlean construct would be a pretty neat twist. It's a lot less tiresome and more intriguing than Hydaelyn's plot armour and blessing in my opinion.

---

With all the VI references abounding on Azys Lla, but in an effort to be original, I'm somewhat hoping Varis inadvertently absorbs the power of the Warring Triad and goes crazy (either from the power destabilizing his mind or because he's become a container for the same things his people despise), and van Hydrus turns on him a la General Leo and allies with us. Either we fail to stop him from using Light of Judgment or lessen the damage, but either way we fail and the world is devastated.

Mostly because they've said 4.0 won't require 2.0 - 3.x completion to jump into it, and while I hate for a Calamity to be used as another reset button I can't currently think of another way to implement this. I can also easily picture a truly desperate battle against a power-drunk/mad Varis with the Black Mages mix of Dancing Mad and, even though I barely played VI much, WANT IT SO BAD BECAUSE IT WOULD BE SO DAMN EPIC. Have us fail in a visceral way, not the "Dalamud's still descending even though we beat van Darnus!" they did in 1.x. Make the failure be our direct fault because we finally found an enemy we couldn't overcome.

... I doubt it'll happen, but I can dream.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cilia

snip

---

Or maybe there is another simple way. There isnt a " reset button ", the story will continue like always. Only that for the new players they will have the chanse to skip all this .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

I do hope they don't screw up and actually succeed at making the world a better place. We need a proper Garlean victory along the lines of Shinra defeating one of the Weapons in FF7. I bring this up a lot around these parts, I know, I'm so weary of the WoL securing victory after victory. Having the WoL fail at something and be saved (indirectly, perhaps) by a Garlean construct would be a pretty neat twist. It's a lot less tiresome and more intriguing than Hydaelyn's plot armour and blessing in my opinion.

---

I suspect we'll eventually wind up working along side a more Moderate Legatus against one that goes rogue in a pointedly destructive way ((In the way that it's clear that they themselves are the problem, not Garlemald as a whole.)) Or with pretty much any of them against a Threat so big that morality comes second to mortality.

Quote:

---

I mean, technically speaking the Garleans have had a lot of victories. It's just not shown directly. They control a large portion of Hydaelyn, after all. They also managed to deal with Doma when it rebelled - though the specifics evade us.

---

Well of course they've had victories. The question isn't if they've won, but if, barring speculation, them winning has made anyone's life better. Perhaps if we infiltrate Garlemald, we'll see that they've improved some people's lives. Just probably not in the Ala Mhigo expansion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

I'm not sure it's wise to paint the leadership of Garlemald as 'evil'. Driven and heavy handed, certainly, but we do not yet fully understand their reasoning for acting the way that they do and seem to be working towards trying to 'save' Hydaelyn as a whole in their own way. They may very well be misguided, yes, but real world morality is always a dubious thing to apply to fantasy settings as they're not often the same. Magic, for example, as well as Primals, don't exist in the real world - so anything to do with them is by design going to be very morally grey on any side.

The persecution of the Beast Tribes is dubious, I'd agree - but at the same time Eorzeans themselves have done the exact same thing. The destruction of Doma? Again, dubious, but we don't know all the details. How many innocents were slain during the uprising, I wonder? Perhaps the situation was triggered by Domans committing atrocities only to be stamped down by the same forces they saw as scattered and ready to be exploited. It's also worth noting that many Domans willingly sided with Garlemald and that Garlean life may very well be better in many ways. If nothing else it's certainly more advanced in terms of technology.

Though at this point I feel like Doma was destroyed - off screen no less - purely for the sake of the FF6 reference. It was quite quickly forgotten and seemed more like a plot device to get the Au Ra to come to Eorzea. They could have simply decided to travel to the place in bulk due to some other event or decision though...

---

Forcing women into prostitution and brainwashing youth and having them kill their own family members is a bit more than heavy handed. Dropping a moon onto a continent is a bit more than heavy handed. I would definitely call the current garlean leadership evil. Regardless of their goals, their methods are unnecessarily cruel and brutal and frankly wreckless.

As for the beast tribes, some of them, such as the Sahagin, are a lot more substancial than we see and the Ixali engineering was more advanced than the Eorzean city states prior to the introduction of Garlean knowledge. The Amal'jaa were actually allied with Ul'dah when they fought Sil'dih. Regardless while the city states and the beast tribes have fought each other a lot, Im not aware of any time in lore where any of the city states outright tried wiping them out. Infact the main time we have seen a genocidal war with the current city states was Ul'dah's war against Sil'dih were they used the zombie dust to turn their enemies population into undead. Even then the current ones aren't and the most important issue is what is happening now. Prior to Garlemald turning up the city states were trading with the Beast tribes.

Also Im not aware of a lot of examples of Domans actually working with the Garleans. Infact the only example I know of was the antagonist of the 30-50 NIN quest and he was seen as a traitor for selling out his village for power.

The main reason I'm arguing this point with you isn't that I don't want to see a deeper story for Garlemald, but that much of your speculation ignores established fact in game and fills in blanks with things that have nothing that supports it. The Garlean leaders as they exist now aren't good people.

Also I'd point out, since you bring Shinra up, that Shinra remained an antagonist all through FF7. The only time they actually side up with the protagonists they then turn around and betray them the very next thing. This is ignoring that most of the problems in FF7 were caused by Shinra in the first place. Rufas fell a long way before he really started holding a protagonist role by Advent Children.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

I do hope they don't screw up and actually succeed at making the world a better place. We need a proper Garlean victory along the lines of Shinra defeating one of the Weapons in FF7. I bring this up a lot around these parts, I know, I'm so weary of the WoL securing victory after victory. Having the WoL fail at something and be saved (indirectly, perhaps) by a Garlean construct would be a pretty neat twist. It's a lot less tiresome and more intriguing than Hydaelyn's plot armour and blessing in my opinion.

---

While I wouldn't mind this, people didn't exactly react well the last time the WoL failed at something and had to be saved by NPCs. I can't count the number of people I heard whining that their character should have carved a path of blood and destruction through Ul'dah instead of running.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

I mean, technically speaking the Garleans have had a lot of victories. It's just not shown directly. They control a large portion of Hydaelyn, after all. They also managed to deal with Doma when it rebelled - though the specifics evade us.

---

They burned the entire country to the ground and killed everyone who didn't escape in the refugee fleet as a warning to the other countries on the continent.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frederick22

Or maybe there is another simple way. There isnt a " reset button ", the story will continue like always. Only that for the new players they will have the chanse to skip all this .

---

Well, that's certainly a possibility, and much more likely (and infinitely more practical).

From many other standpoints it's not the wisest course though. If you just jump to 60 with equipment to match, you won't really know how to play, and be stuck with players who have gone through it all and know what they're doing (or at least should know what they're doing - dummies will be dummies). It's also a lot of story to just gloss over, leaving new players lost. It would also cause some paradoxes, such as the Warrior of Light snapping over the Ul'dahn Revolution arc during the DRK 30-50 line (if they bother to do it) even though that never happened to that Warrior of Light(?).

Additionally, they'd have to make the new MSQ dungeons super-easy to help acclimate newbies. Probably.

The only way I can see something like that happening is if it was narratively-driven. New Warriors of Light being people who refused to give up hope even in the face of devastation and despair is perfect, and having them be survivors of, say, Varis (etc.) using Light of Judgment to devastate Eorzea makes perfect narrative sense.

Some clarification: They didn't say the 2.0 story would be skippable. If I recall correctly, they just said 3.x would be, and that additionally they will try implementing a 'digest mode' so that one can be caught up on the story without doing the quests.

I think it'll be XII style. We'll get to visit Garlicmade and interact with NPCs etc. From there we'll probably join up with a resistance made up of Garlicannes and bring the leaders down from within. I kinda hope that they have a 'break glass' magitek Summon prepared, in case they were ever to become overwhelmed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pence

I think it'll be XII style. We'll get to visit Garlicmade and interact with NPCs etc. From there we'll probably join up with a resistance made up of Garlicannes and bring the leaders down from within..

---

So basically how Gaius and the XIVth Legion took down Ala Mihgo's King of Ruin.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

So basically how Gaius and the XIVth Legion took down Ala Mihgo's King of Ruin.

---

There would be a kind of poetic irony in that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SuperFlorinjin

While I wouldn't mind this, people didn't exactly react well the last time the WoL failed at something and had to be saved by NPCs. I can't count the number of people I heard whining that their character should have carved a path of blood and destruction through Ul'dah instead of running.

---

I think that was less the event and more SE giving us cutscene incompetence at every action scene out of our hands. Prior cutescenes were done that conveyed this, so its not like asking for the sun and moon. If we were able to play out events and have a role in our roleplaying game, it would have been received better.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kallera

I think that was less the event and more SE giving us cutscene incompetence at every action scene out of our hands. Prior cutescenes were done that conveyed this, so its not like asking for the sun and moon. If we were able to play out events and have a role in our roleplaying game, it would have been received better.

---

I agree. It wouldve been better if there where some active battle sequences where you do have to defeat a bunch of endlessly spawning guards on the way out. And after x amount of time or x amount of enemies defeated the trial ends where the WoL is again faced with a large number of enemies and either chooses to run or is helped by an ally pointing at a way out.

It would certainly satisfy the players desire to beat the snot out of some of those crooked guards.

I would imagine that in the next expansion (4.0) we will be traveling to Ala Mhigo and the lands surrounding it. I expect we will finally have access to the entire Eorzean subcontinent, traveling to Gyr Abania (where Ala Mhigo is located) and Xelphatol (which doesn't seem to have a city-state associated with it). After end of the Dragonsong War, I expect we'll start getting more involved with the Ala Mhigans and their quest to regain their homeland, to the point where we might even have a dungeon or trial right before the expansion where we help to free Ala Mhigo from Garlean control. That would set the stage for us to visit Ala Mhigo in 4.0, which would then be back under the control of the Ala Mhigans.

It would be the new city we get access to in that expansion and would be the location of all the new jobs and/or classes (I wonder if they'll just be adding new jobs from now on or if there will ever be new classes. Will the existing classes get second jobs like Arcanists, or will it always be on job per class?). After that, I'm not sure where it would go. Sharlayan and Garlemald itself both seem possible. There are so many locations that have been mentioned, like Doma or Radz-at-Han, that we may visit in future expansions. How much of the world do you think we'll get to explore? Do you think some day we will have access to all of it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rurudo

It would be the new city we get access to in that expansion and would be the location of all the new jobs and/or classes (I wonder if they'll just be adding new jobs from now on or if there will ever be new classes. Will the existing classes get second jobs like Arcanists, or will it always be on job per class?).

---

I don't know if they'll ever add new classes instead of going straight to jobs, but I'm pretty sure they won't do the Arcanist branching trick again. I've heard they don't like how it turned out, probably the fact that leveling Scholar to max instantly makes you a master summoner as well.

It's so strange that homeless and desperate refugees whose members take extremist action somehow match up unfavorably to a massive expansionist army that has, in the past, completely razed a city-state to the ground. The worst Ala Mhigan extremists have done is riot in areas that have treated them like garbage and marginalized their rights for the past decade and a half. Garlean extremists (who happened to be people in positions of power, mind) planned the complete genocide of every single person on Eorzea by dropping a freaking moon on them. I'm not a moral absolutist, but the Garlean Empire needs to be stopped for the good of the people around them. I'm not saying that all Ala Mhigans deserve a free pass, but you cannot convince me that fricking Garlemald measures up favorably to Ala Mhigo on a moral level.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RomildaRayne

I'm not saying that all Ala Mhigans deserve a free pass, but you cannot convince me that fricking Garlemald measures up favorably to Ala Mhigo on a moral level.

---

Yeah, Garlemald, in their actions, have cause a Calamity (Nael), The Awakening of Ultima which weakened Hydaelyn further (Gaius) and now they're in Azys Lla and given their track record, are bound to mess up significantly. Then there's Midgardsomnr (who has a covenant with Hydaelyn herself) to fought against them in Silver Tear Lake.

I'm not a fan of Ala Mhigo either, but their mistakes are nowhere near as disastrous as the Garleans.

Even the Dragonsong war has been isolated within Ishgard.

To be fair, Nael wasn't really acting on behalf of Garlemald. Many Garleans were opposed to his attitude. It's not like the entirety of Ul'dah is blamed for the actions of Teledji so I don't believe it's fair to tarnish the entirety of Garlemald as a result of a select few. Gaius, as well, was largely manipulated by an Ascian and didn't want to destroy Eorzea but rather bring order to the place. Ishgard's Archbishop boasted a similar mentality - and he was very much an Eorzean.

I'm hoping the plot has the Garleans succeed at saving Eorzea from some major threat. That'd make things even more morally dubious if we do assault Ala Mhigo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Theodric

To be fair, Nael wasn't really acting on behalf of Garlemald. Many Garleans were opposed to his attitude. It's not like the entirety of Ul'dah is blamed for the actions of Teledji so I don't believe it's fair to tarnish the entirety of Garlemald as a result of a select few. Gaius, as well, was largely manipulated by an Ascian and didn't want to destroy Eorzea but rather bring order to the place. Ishgard's Archbishop boasted a similar mentality - and he was very much an Eorzean.

---

Not to mention Nael was full fledge Tempered by Bahamut. And Lahabrea duped Gaius into reactivating The Ultima Weapon. Neither telling his that The Heart of Sabik was inside it nor that it could cast the forbidden and highly destructive spell "Ultima" that even Gaius him self protested the use of, as shown by the phrase "Ultima Again!?! Damn you Acsian!". Which clearly shows he wouldn't have cast that spell even if he DID know he could have.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaiser-Ace

Not to mention Nael was full fledge Tempered by Bahamut. And Lahabrea duped Gaius into reactivating The Ultima Weapon. Neither telling his that The Heart of Sabik was inside it nor that it could cast the forbidden and highly destructive spell "Ultima" that even Gaius him self protested the use of, as shown by the phrase "Ultima Again!?! Damn you Acsian!". Which clearly shows he wouldn't have cast that spell even if he DID know he could have.

---

Yeah. This is often neglected in 'Garleans are antagonists' discussions. I mean, yes - they are - but they're not incompetent. They've simply been tricked into doing stuff...like most prominent Eorzeans have including the WoL. As for Regula and Varis? We don't know enough about their motives just yet. We've a few hints but nothing we can piece together firmly.