Are the actual Ascians all but defeated?

After the loss of Lahabrea, Nabriales, Igeyorhm and possibly the unnamed Ascian that the Warriors of Darkness killed, it seems that the rest of the Ascians would be thrown into chaos, after suddenly losing so many of their allies so suddenly. It also kinda feels like Elidibus is no longer working to the same goal as the rest of them (if he ever was), he could even possibly be actively working against them.

I wouldn't say they're all gone for good (there should be at least 9 left, not including Elidibus) but with Nabriales, Igeyorhm, and Lahabrea downed I have no doubt they're going to play a more conservative game and actually heed Elidibus' words from now on.

Weren't there like..hundreds in the 2.0 credits?
Or were those just Zodiark's followers and not Ascian-related?

I'll wait until 3.2 story to see what Elidibus is up to, but even if he [spoiler] runs around in white instead of black robes and plays best buddies with Urianger [spoiler end] I wouldn't count on him being "good" as in having somewhat similar goals to our own.

My take on the WoD party is that they were one of those previous WoL teams that were mentioned by several NPCs. Something about that there are always WoLs during the dark eras. If they were there during the last catastrophe and asleep on the moon since then, I think the Ascian they killed has long been replaced by a new one.

We know there are (were) at least 13, and with Lahabrea, Igeyorm and Nabriales gone, we may see the other 9 with their own individual plots. They seems a really big Chekov's Gun to just leave hanging while only Elidibus does his thing.
However, those 13 we know of are maybe mayor Ascians, do we know how it works with lesser Ascians (Trevanchet? the ones fron the SMN quests?)? Are they just servants of the 13 or do they have their own plots and machinations?

*Casts Summon Moose-senpai*

We also know that at least Lahabrea was capable of "creating" more in the essence of uplifting them. . .somehow from the level 60 SMN quest. So theoretically, we have an unlimited amount, especially if the Echo has something to do with the transformation, which is what Elidibus seemed to be implying to us with the demonstration in 2.2.

Belated edit: I actually do sense another storyline nerf coming for us at the end of 3.0 that may set us back a bit. We're basically walking Gods right now and that's not very conductive to storytelling. I do hope our next nerf lasts a bit longer than the last one, though.

There could be 13-14 Asciens Overlords total.

2 died (Igeyohm and Nabriales); Lahabrea is inside Nidhogg's eye and might still play a role. I doubt the Ascien defeated by the WoD was killed since the only way to do that is to imprison them in an apparatus and destroying it ... for now. Eitherway, the rest of the Asciens would have been alot more careful if that was the case.

We know that regular people could atleast be "lesser asciens" but I am not sure if they could be promoted to replace an Ascien Overlord. Also, I think it it's Lahabrea that likes doing that and not the others since he's "from this world"

Do we actually consider them to be true Ascians, though?

Personally, Lahabrea and crew strike me as Ascians who fell off of the beaten path. They were cliche characters with a completely transparent agenda who reveled in wanton destruction for the sake of an ambiguous goal that they didn't seem to fully understand. Sure, they dropped Zodiark's name from time to time, but none of them seemed to have an actual connection to him or a serious plan for making any headway with his release. I mean, think Lahabrea on Bahamut's calamity:

"BWHAHAHAHA it's been so long since I've seen Bahamut rip shit up! (paraphrasing, obviously)" .... and then nothing. It's like go out of their way to enjoy all this carnage, but when it happens they sit back and say, "So, what was step 2 of this plan again?" Cuz' nothing happens. For a long time it seemed like the Ascians just did not take their job seriously, so it's difficult to take them seriously. I was pretty happy to see Lahabrea get bumped off just because he was an obsolete character who had worn out his welcome a long time ago.

At this point, Elidibus is the only one that I considered to be a true Ascian because he seems to be actually interested in an end-game of some kind. We don't know what that end-game is, for the moment, but we do know that he has an interest in it. We also know that he seems to have a much tighter connection to Zodiark than the other Ascians, and it's been implied that he has a much deeper understanding of the cosmic forces at work. He, also, is the only Ascian that is currently active (that we know of).

So, have the Ascians been written off? No, I don't think so. I think SE has just re-focused them because the original Ascians didn't seem to have a relevant purpose anymore.

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

*Casts Summon Moose-senpai*

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*POOF* What the f-... where am... Ascian thread? Oh, no. <ahem> I mean...

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Originally Posted by Chewy2nd

After the loss of Lahabrea, Nabriales, Igeyorhm and possibly the unnamed Ascian that the Warriors of Darkness killed, it seems that the rest of the Ascians would be thrown into chaos, after suddenly losing so many of their allies so suddenly. It also kinda feels like Elidibus is no longer working to the same goal as the rest of them (if he ever was), he could even possibly be actively working against them.

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I don't know about on the ropes, but apparently better than Team Hydaelyn's been doing in the last 10,000-ish years, and that's not nothin'.

The apparent loss of Lahabrea would be the most troubling for them, considering he was not one of the transmigration group, but (like Elidibus) risen from our world through direct communion with Zodiark's power. That seemed to give him some sort of competitive edge in "bringing the Darkness", though it's vague. I'm not 100% convinced he's 100% gone, though. Yoshi-P just doesn't seem like the type to finish off emblematic villains so soon.

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Originally Posted by Cilia

I have no doubt they're going to play a more conservative game and actually heed Elidibus' words from now on.

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Agreed. The scene in 2.3 seemed to indicate that the fall of Ramuh and his acceptance of the Warrior of Light brought the last of them around to taking his word for it that the "potential of man" was limitless. With Nabriales and Igeyorhm dead, plus Lahabrea killed or captured, it might be a while before anyone steps up.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Weren't there like..hundreds in the 2.0 credits?

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There are specifically fourteen Overlords seen in 2.00, possessing a speculative number of underlings. It's possible that one was Elidibus, considering his distinctive robes didn't make their appearance until a Letter from the Producer LIVE preview of Patch 2.1, where he was labeled SHIRO ASHIEN (White Ascian). However, I think I remember all fourteen platforms in the Chrysalis were filled when Elidibus took center stage (13 + Lahabrea shows up once the rest agree that Elidibus has the right of things).

It still really bothers me that all of the overlords are sporting underling costumes in that scene, though I suspect it was because SE doesn't have their red masks ready yet. Still, could have let them keep their shouderpads, at least.

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

[D]o we know how it works with lesser Ascians (Trevanchet? the ones fron the SMN quests?)? Are they just servants of the 13 or do they have their own plots and machinations?

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They do seem to just be loyal servants, thus far. The big question for me is where they come from. After the SMN questlines, I question ... are they corrupted souls of the Light, addicted to little gifts of power until they undergo a necessary change a la Tristan? Or are they just toying with figures like that and are actually from the same place as the transmigration set?

If the latter, why serve them so loyally? Or were the XIIth Chalice, Sword, Pentacle, and Staff just the most loyal? They say that they were "raised unto greatness", but the line specifically refers to power and knowledge, so it's not clear if they were created by him.

Anyway, TL;DR so long as Hydaelyn fears The Moon and The Moon seems to be Zodiark and Zodiark is the one true god of the Ascians, I don't imagine we're close to done with the Ascians.

People have noticed that the moon is getting bigger:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ly_got_bigger/

< Spoiler alert > Lahabrea will be replaced by Mi----------------------

This message has been terminated. Continue with your idle positing. That is all.

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Originally Posted by myahele

People have noticed that the moon is getting bigger:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ly_got_bigger/

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And that reddit thread is already seeing the deja vu.

I'm keeping my hopes down for Lahabrea. I want him to come back, so I don't want to be disappointed if he doesn't return.

However, the little glimmer of hope remains, refusing to be extinguished. I'm just a whole bunch of internal contradictions regarding the best character in the game. Yep.

Lahabrea went through the dragon's eye, and is currently terrorizing Pelamar. If this is not canon, I'm making it canon.

As for the other Ascians. I doubt we'll see them for a while... The last... Three? To come at us have all ended up dead, despite their belief that death is off the table for them. Add to that the group we Akh Morn'd and yeah, I don't think they're going to want to stand toe to toe with us for a while... We are clearly dangerous, I think they're going to go back to working in the shadows rather than getting directly involved. Props to any of them that still have the balls to go up against us directly, but it was already stupid enough having the Twelfth Chalice go "Did you think this was over when you killed Lahabrea?!" to "How could you possibly defeat me after I acknowledged that you bested Lahabrea?! Oh... Right... I'm an idiot...", I really hope that kind of crap doesn't happen in the Main Scenario... It's fine for the bumbling Saturday morning cartoon villains that Job quests seem to draw, but if Altima comes rocking about in 3.2, all overconfident in her supposed immortality, only to act shocked when we kill her, I'm going to be somewhat peeved... They should be much less aggressive in their tactics now that we can clearly kill them...

Lahabrea is the only one I want to see make a comeback, because he clearly had some other goal in mind... He seemed to consider himself above his peers, granted they all do, but Nabrialis was speeding on the next Rejoining so he could be Zodiarks right hand, he still considered Zodiark greater than himself... Lahabrea gave a few subtle hints that he considered himself above even Zodiark. I mean, his area of interest was gifting people the ability to summon Primals unto themselves, I can totally see his endgame being to become Zodiark, rather than to revive him, which is the goal of the rest of the Ascians. Plus, if he has become Nidhoggs eye floater, we have the perfect chance to bring Shinryu into the game; Lahabrea compels Nidhogg to fight fire with fire. Thordan VII summoned a Primal unto himself, so lets have Nidhogg summon one too. The Primal Shinryu comes into being through Nidhogg, Omega reactivates to fulfill its tradition of hunting down Shinryu (Allag made it to best Bahamut here of course, but Shinryu and Bahamut would both be Celestial Dragon Primals, not a lot of differences when you think about it), in the chaos Lahabrea slips away to prepare our 3.5 encounter with Zodiark. We beat Lahadiark, rest of the Ascians finally give up, 4.0 can be something refreshing.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

As for the other Ascians. I doubt we'll see them for a while... The last... Three? To come at us have all ended up dead, despite their belief that death is off the table for them. Add to that the group we Akh Morn'd and yeah, I don't think they're going to want to stand toe to toe with us for a while... We are clearly dangerous, I think they're going to go back to working in the shadows rather than getting directly involved. Props to any of them that still have the balls to go up against us directly

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I always thought it a little strange how calmly they took the death of Nabrialis. If I was the Ascians, I wouldn't have just shrugged it off with a "maybe we should pick up the pace a bit". I would have assembled as many Ascians and any allies I could and stomped the WoL into a puddle. Instead they sat around until we got the Blessing of Light back and could lolnope one of their trump cards.

Or maybe *darksteelfoil hat on* the other Ascians KNEW Nabri's plan was doomed to fail and only thought we'd kill his physical form and he'd get a scolding for acting too rashly. When we actually destroyed him, they were worried but thinking "at least he took care of our annoying little brother" and scrambled to their respective areas. Maybe different ascians are tasked with different areas of Hydaelin, and Nabriales just butted into Eorzea when we foiled Lahabrea, with Elidibus trying to "convert" us.

Oooor, most likely, the devs didn't want to use all the Ascians just yet, making it so we off one or two per x-pac...

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

Or maybe *darksteelfoil hat on* the other Ascians KNEW Nabri's plan was doomed to fail and only thought we'd kill his physical form and he'd get a scolding for acting too rashly. When we actually destroyed him, they were worried but thinking "at least he took care of our annoying little brother" and scrambled to their respective areas. Maybe different ascians are tasked with different areas of Hydaelin, and Nabriales just butted into Eorzea when we foiled Lahabrea, with Elidibus trying to "convert" us.

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That's what I think. Somebody must have taught the tribes in Othard how to Summon primals. I'm pretty sure that an Ascien helped give rise to Garlemald via showing Midas(?) allagan magitek to reverse engineer.

Heck, maybe an Ascien is involved in convincing the rest of Sharlayan to remain neutral and leave Eorzea.

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Originally Posted by myahele

Heck, maybe an Ascien is involved in convincing the rest of Sharlayan to remain neutral and leave Eorzea.

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That would means that an Ascian would have hired Sylvestre to assassinate Leveva's father. The thought is amusing, yet possible

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

Or maybe *darksteelfoil hat on* the other Ascians KNEW Nabri's plan was doomed to fail and only thought we'd kill his physical form and he'd get a scolding for acting too rashly. When we actually destroyed him, they were worried but thinking "at least he took care of our annoying little brother" and scrambled to their respective areas. Maybe different ascians are tasked with different areas of Hydaelin, and Nabriales just butted into Eorzea when we foiled Lahabrea, with Elidibus trying to "convert" us.

Oooor, most likely, the devs didn't want to use all the Ascians just yet, making it so we off one or two per x-pac...

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I can almost guarantee the bolded is true, however, what we also know is that Nabriales was aiding in the mortal-Primal pet project on Eorzea for some time. And he hated it. So he might have come to Eorzea because he had to, not because he necessarily wanted to. Nabriales is the funniest. He's so spiteful to everyone in every conversation and he's so casual about his spite; I love it. During the scene with him and Elidibus in 2.1, I really got the feeling Elidibus was something of the local Ascian babysitter, slapping hands when necessary and putting the others to bed when they've been bad, while offering just enough freedom to stop the tantrums.

I'm also betting the latter is true, about SE "saving" the Ascians to use them over time. I'm saying this every other thread, but we still have Pashtarot MIA. He's coming in 3.X guys, I swear. Guys? . . .Guys? I have other theories about why they are "saving" the Ascians, but most of them depend on how SE decides to handle Elidibus. I don't really want to derail the thread again, but I'm confident Elidibus isn't the end-all big-bad.

Just going solely based on general Ivalice lore... I think either Emet-Selch or Altima will be built up to be Elidibus' opponents. We know the Ascians all disagree with how best to bring Zodiark back, so there might be factions.

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Originally Posted by Chewy2nd

After the loss of Lahabrea, Nabriales, Igeyorhm and possibly the unnamed Ascian that the Warriors of Darkness killed, it seems that the rest of the Ascians would be thrown into chaos, after suddenly losing so many of their allies so suddenly. It also kinda feels like Elidibus is no longer working to the same goal as the rest of them (if he ever was), he could even possibly be actively working against them.

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There is a possibilty that Elidibus is not who he says he is. But I agree, the ascians have been suffering a string of crippling defeats. Mostly caused by poor organisation among themselves. (Lahabrea being rebellious, and Nabriales getting cocky and reckless) So its sensible to wonder what theyve got left. But im certain they got plenty of tricks left up their sleeves. But as I said before, I get the feeling Elidibus is working his own agenda at the moment, being as pragmatic as ever.

Yeah. The Ascians aren't stupid - some of them have proven to be reckless, yes, but that's largely because they underestimated a mortal who has become incredibly powerful through exceptional means. I suspect that they have a lot more stuff planned that will gradually come into play even if we manage to get rid of them - because the webs they've weaved will no doubt continue to unravel and come into play no matter what we do in response.