Its stupid that leves were advertised as "casual content" yet everything about this game screams guildleves. For one there is nothing to do but leves, everywhere you go there's camps that initiate leves, there's airship docks to help facilitate travel to leves, the party recruit system only allows you to recruit parties for leves (and behest but same thing, i.e., no SP party recruit), the opening cut scene is about god damn leves. Every time SE was asked about the party battle system in interviews leading up to game's release they would say "we envision parties running about as they kill monsters"...well you didn't give another choice did you? This has to be the dumbest idea I've ever seen. Basically if you hate leves its hard to imagine this game being anything else. There's beast men but for whatever reason they barely play a role in the game. There's the Garlean empire but they're probably off doing leves and too busy to bother us. Why? I hope Tanaka actually did get fired or I hope he doesn't get the helm for anymore projects from SE, I dunno how he went from FFXI to this tbh. I don't want an FFXI-2 but it doesn't mean scrap everything...I'm still optimistic though, I just hope they re-map (literally) the entire game world because it in itself is hideous and repetitive; hopefully that all the other changes that are coming will put this game on par with FFXI at the very least and please, dump the stupid leves as the primary system, they suck.
Why was the game built around guildleves?
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03-13-2011, 07:27 AMMackWhy was the game built around guildleves?
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03-13-2011, 07:36 AMDalmore
I'm so tired of leves atm its boring noring boring.
and yes they need to remap the whole world. they need to split the current zones into 3 to 4 different zones. -
03-13-2011, 07:38 AMLillithaFenimore
Ummm, no offense, but can you actually put this in an area, like a complaints section of the forums... Also you are saying what has already been said 1000 X's over...and I will say...if you don't like it...leave it...you do have that choice...you do know that right?
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03-13-2011, 07:42 AMMackQuote:
Originally Posted by LillithaFenimore
Yea of course i know that I've already long left the game but some of you people for whatever god damn reason that think everything is ok with the game are lying to yourselves. And get this, if you don't like what I have to say don't read it, you know you have that choice, right?
This is my first topic on here, so I don't care how many people have said this before, I wanna say it too. -
03-13-2011, 07:44 AMLillithaFenimore
Then say it...in the feed back forums...I have no complaints honestly with your opinion...can you just put it in the proper area? I came to the general forum to see other general stuff...and saw this...is it really that hard?
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03-13-2011, 07:45 AMAkumu
Everyone know this already thats why Yoshi-P is the new guy in charge. No point in bashing on a already dying horse. SE needs suggestions and good ideas not more bricks being thrown at them. Yoshi-P and the new team seems like the right people for the job so at least wait, give suggestions, or gtfo and play rift or something.
edit: Btw people aren't happy or lying to themselves about the games current state. They are only doing 1 of the 3 things I listed.
I bid this fail thread farewell. -
03-13-2011, 07:46 AMMackThis isn't general? I wanna put it here your majesty I hope you can grant me this one wish....ok.....ok....more dots?....umm....I want my topic here, if you choosee.....to reply.....that's your choice....Quote:
Originally Posted by LillithaFenimore
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03-13-2011, 07:47 AMMackSee, people get touchy for nothing. It was "go play WoW" now its "go play RIFT"?? I don't wanna play either one. In fact I don't even play MMOs nor do I play RPGs but I play Final Fantasy. I want to play *this* game and I want to beat the dead horse 'til it wakes up again, how is that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Akumu
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03-13-2011, 07:48 AMLillithaFenimoreThen you aren't really serious about your post or your opinion? So you are posting this to get a rise from people? If you are serious about your opinion, and them wanting to fix this game, maybe post it in feedback where it might actually be read by someone working on it so they can take your post into consideration? Just a thought!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack
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03-13-2011, 07:49 AMAva
Leves are great, but the game does need variety. Variety will come with time.
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03-13-2011, 07:50 AMLillithaFenimoreWell if you really want to play this game, then post some suggestions and feedback in the forum, find the dev appropriate to your post and make sure you put into the title which dev it's for and state your case. That way it will most likely be seen by them and your opinion could be taken into consideration like many others. Don't hinder, but help.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack
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03-13-2011, 07:51 AMKilta_Firelotus
sooooooooooo all the complaining and no ideas to fix it?
guildleve are part of the story. I'm guessing once they flesh the world out and continue withe the story the true'er meaning behind guildleves will be known. Reme,ber they are stained glass tarot cards. I'm guessing "the echo" will come into play more. Like the intro CS where the hume guy looks into it and is pulled into the past somewhat.
Plus i like how it makes me feel like a merc. which is kinda what they are about.
Some suggestion on improving them would be nice instead of how bad they are. :)
This isn't a fansite and we know the game isn't good. But try to be more constructive instead of crying. -
03-13-2011, 07:53 AMRoaran
I think it was wrong to provide so many guild leves available. Even if you're not casual, they are the best source of SP, and as a result players feel they need to do them every reset. If you don't get lucky on leve links or you're not gaming the system. these leves sometimes take 1-2 hours to complete. So with my group we play usually from 6-10pm, takes us about 30 mins to get all ready and to travel to our spot, then another 1-2 hours to do the leves not including breaks (Food/WC/Behest). Usually at the end, we're either to tired to do anything else or we already stopped early to go to bed.
Leveling from 1-40 wasn't so bad, as the areas changed and the monsters changed. Getting to level 33 was refreshing, as we started to fight more interesting monsters. However, we are in the 40s now still doing the same leves (After jumping from regions and trying all the leves, we found Gridania to be, by far, the most enjoyable).
If I were to make one suggestion....
Increase the Guild leve cooldown to a WEEKLY cooldown, and make world monsters much better to SP on. Obviously fix the SP first, but save the Guild leves for more special encounters... for example: Instead of the lame kill 12 monsters, make it one difficult monster (help players learn new tactics by encountering more challenging monsters) that rewards a significant amount of SP at the end. -
03-13-2011, 07:53 AMLillithaFenimoreI agree I like the leves. I also wish they did have variety of things to do...I would also like to see a variety of leves for every level, not just 3-4 leves per 10 levels per city.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava
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03-13-2011, 07:55 AMLittleStarLMAO this made my day!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack
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03-13-2011, 07:59 AMAlcide
I actually don't mind the guildleve system, it's not that different from any other mmo quest system, the only difference is that you always know where to get them and where to do them, then it's always the same "hunt this mob x times"
One thing I like is the feeling they have, the fact that all of the adventurers gather toghether at the same time at the adventurer's guild and leave toghether to do them.
Obviousely they have to adjust them, the fact that we keep on failing the valuable leves in order to rank up at a decent speed is not acceptable. Right now getting a variety of different guildleves is just a waste of time, but doing dunesfolk for dinner (for exemple) over and over again is definitely boring ._. -
03-13-2011, 08:03 AMRowyne
I agree that I feel it's very backwards.
I would have liked to see the backbone of the game based on regular quest-based leveling, with leves as a supplement. You do leves when you need some extra exp, money, or to rep grind.
I despise doing my daily quests in WoW because they get boring fast. FFXIV making a game based on 'daily' questing (yes, I know it's 36 hours, just making a comparison) was a bad idea, IMO. It was okay for a while, but now it's like being stuck in a special kind of hell. -
03-13-2011, 08:04 AMgifthorse
I remember when the complaint was: "I want to do more than 8 leves every 36 hours".
Since release I still don't think I've managed to do more than 6 per reset. They're just such a ridiculous concept. They aren't proper quests. -
03-13-2011, 08:07 AMMack
I don't mind leves themselves, they're not bad, but I mind that they're so central to everything. The maps are designed simply to spread the players out to do more leves (anticipating more than 500 players per server that is). I honestly hope they scrap it so make it an extra without all the fluff you get from it. What I mean is don't give so much SP, so much gil, etc. from these leves, give a decent amount because otherwise they become central once again as people will flock over to the thing that benefits them most.
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03-13-2011, 08:10 AMRowyne
My husband and I used to have a ritual. We'd do our 8 leves together (sometimes a few more due to leve-linking), log out. Sometimes throw in some crafting in between, but usually not log back in until after reset.
Rinse repeat.
Eventually, the repeat starting coming out of the equation.
There has got to be more than this. -
03-13-2011, 08:16 AMZenaku
Leves was build as a way for players who don't have much time to play.
See that Yoshi-P would be making a system for Hardcore players which be 8player base dungeons if you not read the interview.
8players: would need to plan out and a good class set to win and times to do.
4players: Don't need much planing it's a go in fight get out type of deal. healer,dps,dps,dps would do in this type of event.
It's seem Yoshi-P have a lot for hardcore and casual play style something tanaka could not do. But at least he still working on ffxiv with Yoshi-P.
So please i know it hard for some ppl to read interview but try and look for them or ask someone if they know before making a topic. Guildleves in few months no one be doing then 2-3years it just be there if you want like ffxi:Garrison -
03-13-2011, 08:18 AMAlcide
Oh and guys, you said yourself the whole game is about guildleves, story, maps, combat, gathering, craft, even the cinematic, everything. It's a great concept used in an awful way, but it's still great and they based the game on that, they can't redo EVERYTHING. And again, if you don't like the core of a game noone is forcing you to play ^^'
But most of all, give up on whining about guildleves, coz Yoshida already stated he loves this concept. :D
1-0 for real players o/ -
03-13-2011, 08:22 AMZenaku
Btw FFXIV was a game that got hurry up due to CEO wanting a 2010 release and maybe also the stockholders wanting there $ now then waiting. Tanaka would have made this game very good top of that most of everything coming up was maybe his plans for the start just never had time. it going to take few months before we see Yoshi-P and then still tanaka would be in the team helping out and giving out idea.
But Yoshi-P is doing a great job but let's see what he can really do when he on his on in few years and tanaka leaves ffxiv and go do something else. i mean no disrespect to yoshi-p it's going to take time before i like him more so far i think he been a great help too ffxiv let's see what he have for hardcore players. -
03-13-2011, 08:22 AMNepheraI laughed pretty hardQuote:
Originally Posted by Mack
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03-13-2011, 08:24 AMRowyneI was thinking 4-mans would be more like Tank, Healer, 2 DPSQuote:
Originally Posted by Zenaku
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03-13-2011, 08:29 AMRowyneI'm not suggesting it get scrapped, but I don't think it should be the backbone of the game. I'd like to see other things take more of a central focus. And not just for the repetitive aspect. But accepting assignments like some kind of mercenary requisitioned by people you'll never meet doesn't make for a very engaging story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alcide
And we play FF because of the epic story, right?
I think the 'Side'quests need to be more robust, for this reason (which is another reason I'm not crazy about calling them sidequests, it only reinforces the idea that they're trivial). -
03-13-2011, 08:46 AMAlcideI agree 100% right now there are a few things like that in class/main scenario quests that gives you that but they aren't enough and definitely they aren't challenging.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowyne
But there are still ppl who wants to get rid of the whole guildleve system as well ;) -
03-13-2011, 09:08 AMNephera
Yeah guildleves are nice but they're really just comparable to daily quests in any other mmo. Which is uh... really not what we should be using as a foundation.
At least not with a limit of eight at a time. -
03-13-2011, 09:15 AMXatsh
My guess is Leves where seen as the perfect casual group event.
You can solo them if you have less then an hour.
You can use the party search and instantly join and warp to a group anywhere in the game and team up on them to get more sp.
IT is the best SP in the game so the hardcore players will join up with the casuals.
With thousands of people doing them a day and there being 10-20 partys seeking at all times, you can log in instantly party up and play.
So it is endless partys which is easy to join and can be 30mins long or 4hrs long depending on how long you want to play... really the perfect casual party setup.
Except no one uses the party feature which killed half that idea. And the population being about 10% what they expected also dealing a blow the system just does not work as intended.
This above would be my guess why the game is focused around it. Tanaka wanted the game to be party based (which every other mainstream mmo is not) and casual at the same time. -
03-13-2011, 09:33 AMZenakuAhhh yes how can i forget the tanks o.o sorry dps,dps,healer,tank :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowyne
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03-13-2011, 09:44 AMRowyneI love a good meatshield! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenaku
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03-13-2011, 10:03 AMMalakhim
Leves are an excellent idea, much like a lot of stuff in Final Fantasy XIV. The idea of being able to grab different kinds of work at an easy to find central location and get stuff done in a relatively short amount of time? Sign me up. As a few others have said, they tie into the story of the game(or at least give the impression that they will), and they make you feel like a mercenary taking work for different people.
The problem, much like other systems in Final Fantasy XIV, is in how they were realized. There's hardly any variety other than "go kill x number of mobs", "go kill x number of mobs to farm y item", or "go kill x number of mobs at y locations to spawn z big mob". These are admittedly staples of MMOs in general, however they're hardly enough for the kind of gameplay experiences we're used to in games nowadays.
What we need are different types of objectives. Let me escort cargo/people through beast(or beastmen)-infested territory, let me defend an aetheryte camp, let me aid some gladiator in his daily training regimen, or explore some areas for a survey expedition, etc. The system for all of this is already in place, now let's kick it up a notch. With the way they introduced sidequests, they have the ability to incorporate non-repeatable story chains in addition to the small quests they've added here and there.
Yoshi and his crew have pointed out several times that they plan on adding more quests and leves through every update, and I hope(and like to think) that he and his team understand that it isn't just about quantity as much as it's also about quality and variety. I really think that leves can be something pretty special if they can pull that off. -
03-13-2011, 11:30 AMSovereign
I think Malakhim pretty well nailed it. I would just like to add that I would love to see some Levequests that are not just combat-oriented. If they add chocobos (for example) then I would love a levequest to go race one around somewhere, or some other kind of mini-game-ish objectives.
One other thing I would like to bring up is the reset timer on levequests... 36 hours just makes it really wonky for me to try and plan when I am going to play, and I would really appeciate like a 24 hours reset. At least then I know I can play at around the same time each day and have a full battery of levequests available. -
03-13-2011, 12:09 PMZenakuyep you can't forget the meatshield :) god i hope this game get good i have high hopes still for this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowyne
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03-13-2011, 12:10 PMMalakhimI'm willing to say that I think a lot of the game concepts(well two specifically) were pretty much killed by arbitrary timers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovereign
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03-13-2011, 12:41 PMRowyneAgreed! A 24-hour timer would really make more sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sovereign
I remember being excited when they dropped it down from 48 hours, and then heard they weren't going for 24 but 36. :confused: -
03-13-2011, 01:00 PMKilta_Firelotus
The reason guildleve take center stage is prob the lore behind it. Watch the intro. The games story and lore are not fleshed out yet. FF games have stuff take center stage for a reason. There might be more to the guildleve then we know yet as it isn't in game yet.
Also leve are not really quests. Its more like a Mercenary style job or a work order. (dom/dow are the mercs, doh/dol are the work orders) They are glorified fields of valor from ffxi. And ppl love doing those that they even took off the 1hr wait from doing them. It was suppose to give you a reason to go out and kill mobs, or craft.
Maybe get rid of the limitations and switch them so you get the sp but rewards every "reset" or every hour. This is what they did in ffxi. PPl slowly started to hate grinding for sake of grinding. Having an objective helps. Levequests just give you an objective. -
03-13-2011, 02:48 PMTahlia
I think leves fine for now though they do get abit repetitive over time, especially when you start repeating the exact same leves.
When the game was first announced and I heard about leves I must have got the wrong idea about them. I thought we were going to obtain basic leves to start a levequest through various ways. This could be npc issued as it is now, crafted, quest, purchased, or dropped from NMs. And through the same methods we would obtain upgrade leves that would allow the player to customize the levequests.
Like I could have a levequest that asks me to kill 6 crabs. Then I'd add a modifier leve to double the number to 12, then another that makes them breathe fire or something. Or a "many becomes one" leve that turns them into just one big super megacrab.
While the rewards could possibly vary based on what you use to later the levequest, it's more for the sake of both challenge to the player and to make each time a new, fresh experience.
Roughly like MMM in FFXI but with better and more varied customization options. Also linkshells would be able to store a collection of special leves and create custom levequests for their members to try out everyday (another reason for a calender). Maybe the rewards (possibly linkshell/company points) from those would then be used for any potential linkshell reputation or perks systems.