ESO Tank Jewelery

Hey tanks! Need some input here.

My second class is PLD and because of the holidays and some other real life stuff, I am just getting to investing in some Eso jewelery, currently using the 190 proto-gordian stuff now.

My question is... Slaying or fending? I am currently strength spec now. Could use a bit more HP to MT in Thordan but aside from that no issues. However I have heard they will be making some changes in 3.2... And I\\'d hate to spend the Eso on a jewelery set that will just need to be replaced in a month or so. If this had been an issue a month ago I would have gone strength and just switched if needed at patch. But with it being so close to new gear coming out, which will get used for my SCH first, I\\'m not so sure.

What do you guys think?

Not sure, if you're not planning on spending it on anything else, save it. 3.2 might change how VIT works, if not then get some STR, though this ultimately depends on you.

As there is no confirmation on what 3.2 will being, there really isn't a foolproof answer. If you ate just now starting to collect the eso you may want to wait until information is confirmed in a month. If you can buy a full set today, I would go with strength (but that is where I stand on that part of the discussion)

Get STR accessories. i200/i210 VIT accessories are irrelevant right now, an i190 set from Alex NM is enough. And 3.2 will uncap Esos so even if they do make VIT more relevant next patch, you can get a full set in just a day or two.

get ANY left side Eso gear first, especially for tanks. The belt is universally useable, upgradeable with the acc item, costs the same eso as accs, but grants vit and str. its basically a sanctioned esoteric 200-210 pentameld acc.

If that's out of the way the context still totally depends on what you're gearing for: savage? dungeons? soloing?

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Originally Posted by ArdorGrey

If that's out of the way the context still totally depends on what you're gearing for: savage? dungeons? soloing?

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Left sided gear is out of the way... Got a couple Void Ark pieces as place holders until we see what 3.2 brings as I dislike parry on PLD.

Gearing is for pretty much everything aside from savage. I did Coils back in 2.0 while they were still in their raid cycles but that doesn't seem very doable with Alex savage unless you have a dedicated raid group. Maybe when they when Midas comes out I'll attempt to DF it ;)

I'd start with the 200 VIT ring, followed by the 200 STR ring, and then upgrading them both to 210. The other three would depend on if you want more health, or more damage. If you're not struggling with Thordan any more, go ahead and fill them with STR pieces.

What you want when 3.2 rolls around will probably change, but we'll also probably have new tome and gear sets to replace all the 210 stuff in any case.

Don't listen to me because I am VIT focused. I tried mixing VIT and STR, but I struggle on the tank buster in A1S. With my VIT accessories, I'm at 21k HP. Just popping Sentinel keeps me healthy.

It really depends on the rest of your kit. At roughly item lvl 200, you stand to be at around 15-16k hp with full slaying accessories.Given that 16 is the minimum for Extreme/Savage content, this is cutting it kind of close; so, I would recommend a mix of fending and slaying. Focus on your secondary stats to decide which pieces you go with. Det, Crit are priority unless you need Accuracy. If you are above 200 (likely rocking Gordian gear, Diadem gear, and/or Thordan Ex weapons) then you have a bit more play with your Hp and can stack full Slaying.

After 3.2, it's a bit harder to say. SE has yet to confirm or deny any theories regarding what kind of changes they'll be making to Tank dmg calculations. All we know for sure is that they are changing the dmg calculation to help tanks get actual use out of dropped pieces (fending), instead of forcing us to meld our own accessories at a ridiculous cost. This likely means that whatever they plan to do will make Fending accessories more desirable; however, they changes they make are likely to be very small and only noticeable at end-game raid content (Savage/Extreme Trials). Pre-existing gear models pretty much writes off any dramatic state changes (like changing entire stat effects) because they'd have to retro-fix all of the gear in the game to match. That's too much like work, so, chances are, you won't be in a bad spot regardless of what kind of accessories you chose to go with as long as you have the minimum required Hp and Acc to run content.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

Don't listen to me because I am VIT focused. I tried mixing VIT and STR, but I struggle on the tank buster in A1S. With my VIT accessories, I'm at 21k HP. Just popping Sentinel keeps me healthy.

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I tank A1S in Sword Oath with full Slaying (around 16-17k hp) and have no trouble with the tank buster.

1st tank buster: Shield Oath + Rampart (preferably up for the cleave right before the TB) + Sentinel
2nd tank buster: Hallowed Ground (no oath switch needed)
3rd tank buster: we don't even get this far anymore, but same as the first

I do tank Faust in pentamelds because of the spike damage; I solo tank and our WHM solo heals him.

@OP - I tank Thordan EX in pentamelded accessories because I feel Slaying puts too much pressure on the healers in a fight that's already fairly healing intensive. I'd buy Slaying accessories if you really need to spend Esoterics now, but there's no telling what 3.2 will bring us so you may want to wait if you can. Eso will be unlocked at that point though, as pointed out by a previous poster, so you won't have to worry too much about it being hard to farm them up. If you threw a couple of i190 Fending accessories on with your shiny Esoterics Slaying accessories though, you should have enough HP to MT Thordan EX.

I'm an oddball who has both so I can cater the most to the group I'm with. But that's expensive.

Fending will give healers a wider margin of error, but will also cut into your ability to DPS and generate threat (so you'll have to work harder). The additional Parry on a full Fending set will help you take less damage passively, but there are a lot of people who just don't think it's worth it, and will argue against it.

Slaying will help you hold threat more easily, and will also help you kill it faster. The same people who argue against Parry will argue for "mitigation by proxy," that is, killing it faster to reduce how many times it can hit you, but there isn't any hard evidence or mathematical studies from Heavensward content to prove that killing it faster means taking less damage (or even if the boost to tank DPS from Slaying sets is enough to offset the mitigation loss from the lost Parry).

When 3.0 first came out, to help with the hard DPS checks in A3S and A4S, tanks were encouraged to work with the bare minimum amount of HP they could manage to survive with, which meant picking as many Slaying pieces as possible (though the fabled "pentameld" is more valuable). But now that groups have caught up to the target iLvl for Savage, Fending tanks are able to clear the content.

Ultimately, it boils down to personal choice. As long as you can hold hate and survive, you're doing what you need to. I have both sets because I like to be able to adapt, because 3.2 is changing things in ways we don't yet know, and because it gives me more pieces to spend Mhachi Farthings on. Throwing on my Slaying set to offtank in SwO can also output some really nice numbers, which is helpful in situations where you have no choice (read: that Void Ark run where the other two tanks constantly fight for the boss).

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

Fending will give healers a wider margin of error, but will also cut into your ability to DPS and generate threat (so you'll have to work harder). The additional Parry on a full Fending set will help you take less damage passively, but there are a lot of people who just don't think it's worth it, and will argue against it.

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Given the RNG nature of Parry, I feel like it would be more accurate to say that "The additional Parry on a full fending set may help you take less damage passively." The thing that makes Parry not really worth stacking is the fact that it takes such a massive amount of Parry to increase your parry rate by 1% (a miniscule increase that may or may not actually help in any given encounter).

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Slaying will help you hold threat more easily, and will also help you kill it faster. The same people who argue against Parry will argue for "mitigation by proxy," that is, killing it faster to reduce how many times it can hit you, but there isn't any hard evidence or mathematical studies from Heavensward content to prove that killing it faster means taking less damage (or even if the boost to tank DPS from Slaying sets is enough to offset the mitigation loss from the lost Parry).

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I think it goes without saying that with other things being equal (party composition, gear, cooldowns and other skills) the tank is going to take less damage if they're in the fight for 6 minutes than they do being in the fight for 7 minutes.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

Given the RNG nature of Parry, I feel like it would be more accurate to say that "The additional Parry on a full fending set may help you take less damage passively." The thing that makes Parry not really worth stacking is the fact that it takes such a massive amount of Parry to increase your parry rate by 1% (a miniscule increase that may or may not actually help in any given encounter).

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Except that's based on estimates derived from 2.x. The calculation changed in 3.0, and made Parry scaling a lot better. But no one has effectively tested how much Parry % you get per point in 3.0, so we don't know if Parry is still as bad as it used to be.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I think it goes without saying that with other things being equal (party composition, gear, cooldowns and other skills) the tank is going to take less damage if they're in the fight for 6 minutes than they do being in the fight for 7 minutes.

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I am highly skeptical that the damage between Fending and Slaying on a tank will provide enough additional DPS to shorten the fight by 15%. And if you're with a weaker/fresher/undergeared healer (or a group that requires more of their attention than it rightly should), they might not be able to keep up with the additional damage you're taking - sure, you'll take less damage overall for the fight not lasting as long, but you'll be taking higher damage over time for that duration, which requires higher heals over time.

Now, if you're with a group you trust and your healer is a certified BAMF? Then it's fine. But in general, I like to stick with my Fending set until I know how well the group will do.

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

Except that's based on estimates derived from 2.x. The calculation changed in 3.0, and made Parry scaling a lot better. But no one has effectively tested how much Parry % you get per point in 3.0, so we don't know if Parry is still as bad as it used to be.

I am highly skeptical that the damage between Fending and Slaying on a tank will provide enough additional DPS to shorten the fight by 15%. And if you're with a weaker/fresher/undergeared healer (or a group that requires more of their attention than it rightly should), they might not be able to keep up with the additional damage you're taking - sure, you'll take less damage overall for the fight not lasting as long, but you'll be taking higher damage over time for that duration, which requires higher heals over time.

Now, if you're with a group you trust and your healer is a certified BAMF? Then it's fine. But in general, I like to stick with my Fending set until I know how well the group will do.

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You can't gain enough parry to make it reliable mitigation. There was a thread months ago where someone with around 750 parry (I think) had about a 20% parry chance on a level 60 mob. That's sacrificing 400 secondary stats to gain something like 15% parry, assuming 5% is base. Parrying 1 out of every 5 autoattacks isn't going to make a difference to any healer (even a bad one), it's not going to save you, and it's not even going to mitigate a lot because parry was nerfed to be a 20% reduction.

You also don't need to make a fight 15% shorter to take less damage over the duration. You just need that bit of extra DPS to push phases faster and skip mechanics. Less conflags in T5, less Allagan Fields in T8, less meteors/ravensbeaks/ravensclaws in T9, less Flattens/Akh Morns in T13, skipping jumps in A1S, skipping the entire last minute in A3S. Every bit of DPS you add is more beneficial to your party overall, and to yourself, than an unnoticeable increase in mitigation.

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

I tank A1S in Sword Oath with full Slaying (around 16-17k hp) and have no trouble with the tank buster.

1st tank buster: Shield Oath + Rampart (preferably up for the cleave right before the TB) + Sentinel
2nd tank buster: Hallowed Ground (no oath switch needed)
3rd tank buster: we don't even get this far anymore, but same as the first

I do tank Faust in pentamelds because of the spike damage; I solo tank and our WHM solo heals him.

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I guess I am doing it wrong. Plus, I blame it on being old-school as well as having a "Defensive Tank" mentality rather than "A Tank that can DPS". It's never a surprise when folks choose another PLD over mine, but I'd rather be on NIN anyway, especially when I join as NIN and they ask me to tank lol...

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

I guess I am doing it wrong. Plus, I blame it on being old-school as well as having a "Defensive Tank" mentality rather than "A Tank that can DPS". It's never a surprise when folks choose another PLD over mine, but I'd rather be on NIN anyway, especially when I join as NIN and they ask me to tank lol...

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I initially played PLD with a full defensive style as well, full VIT and stacking Parry to the rafters. I'm not gonna lie, it's a huge shift in playstyle to go aggressive (I'm still struggling with it myself honestly, it's taken me weeks to get to where I tank most of the fight in Sword Oath) but it's got its own payoffs. Honestly, don't look at it as "doing it wrong." That implies that there's something actually wrong with what you're doing now, which there isn't as long as you're able to clear the content you're in. Look at it more as viewing the fight in a different way. For me, it was more a matter of me underestimating just what my Paladin was capable of and kind of pushing those boundaries slowly because I wanted to spare the sensibilities of our healers. :3

Let's face it, a lot of our ability to tank aggressively falls squarely on the shoulders of the party's healers. Some of them take that in stride and push themselves to excel. Others will balk at what they view as them shouldering more of the burden.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

Don't listen to me because I am VIT focused. I tried mixing VIT and STR, but I struggle on the tank buster in A1S. With my VIT accessories, I'm at 21k HP. Just popping Sentinel keeps me healthy.

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21k HP and you're having trouble with the tank buster? I've ran A1S on both DRK (16k hp) and WAR (16k hp out of defiance) and never once had an issue with the tank buster seeing as they both mitigate it down to about 8-10k dmg. Are you even using CDs? Lmao.

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Originally Posted by AlmightyDook

21k HP and you're having trouble with the tank buster? I've ran A1S on both DRK (16k hp) and WAR (16k hp out of defiance) and never once had an issue with the tank buster seeing as they both mitigate it down to about 8-10k dmg. Are you even using CDs? Lmao.

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It says right in the post that you quoted that she uses Sentinel. Here, I'll bold it for you.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

Don't listen to me because I am VIT focused. I tried mixing VIT and STR, but I struggle on the tank buster in A1S. With my VIT accessories, I'm at 21k HP. Just popping Sentinel keeps me healthy.

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Did you just not even bother reading what you quoted? o.O

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

I guess I am doing it wrong. Plus, I blame it on being old-school as well as having a "Defensive Tank" mentality rather than "A Tank that can DPS". It's never a surprise when folks choose another PLD over mine, but I'd rather be on NIN anyway, especially when I join as NIN and they ask me to tank lol...

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It's more of a question of cool down combination, nothing to do with aggressive tanking. When you trim off vit, you have to be on point with your cd's and properly plan your fight.

But more than just you being at max preperation and perfect cool down rotation, your group's abilities must be measured. If you're healers are too occupied with fixing dps mistakes, and they cannot concentrate on you, you may need to consider adding a little extra padding. (Or replace the derps)

Some things to consider:
- we dont know for sure wether vit is going to be the important stat but it seems like an extremely likely scenario
- esos will be uncapped, so you can get either set really damn quickly once 3.2 comes around

Here is what i would do:

- Get a full eso slaying set, because that is what is more beneficial NOW
- Get an i190 gordian fending set, so you have something decent to equip when 3.2 with the potential vit changes comes around
- Once 3.2 comes around (most likely) get a full eso fending set in like a day

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Originally Posted by Ashkendor

It says right in the post that you quoted that she uses Sentinel. Here, I'll bold it for you.
Did you just not even bother reading what you quoted? o.O

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It's all good. I just ignored it lol...Dook knows I'm a NIN more than a PLD. And I'm a "he"...Bwuahahah!

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Originally Posted by AlexiIvaniskavich

It's more of a question of cool down combination, nothing to do with aggressive tanking. When you trim off vit, you have to be on point with your cd's and properly plan your fight.

But more than just you being at max preperation and perfect cool down rotation, your group's abilities must be measured. If you're healers are too occupied with fixing dps mistakes, and they cannot concentrate on you, you may need to consider adding a little extra padding. (Or replace the derps)

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Oh, CD rotation isn't a problem; I just prefer to stick with the role I'm playing and play that "role". I'm one of those, "If you want me to dps, I'll hop on BRD or NIN." type of players.

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Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

It's all good. I just ignored it lol...Dook knows I'm a NIN more than a PLD. And I'm a "he"...Bwuahahah!

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That's ok, I'm a she. xD

I tend to call people by character gender unless I know them well and remember their actual RL gender.

ESO is ok since it can be eventually upgraded to i210. However I'd mix and match the ESO accessories for the secondary stats on a as needed. I only have two fending since I was focusing on getting my Accuracy up to 700 (don't know the content cap) and didn't care for having any more skill speed. I can't find an accurate summary to compare Ark and ESO fending sets left. ( I think Ark has somewhat less parry and accuracy) The Ark fending set doesn't have a lot of parry like other tank sets but has somewhat higher crit and det than ESO, but the +str and +vit when upgraded makes up for that to some degree. So pick and choose between fending and maiming jewelry and upgrade those to i210. Current EX dungeons give ~185(??) gear and accessories. By 3.2 you can see what could be replaced or swapped out via content or crafting+melds. I don't think well be going that far past i210 until around 3.3 or until they're ready to add step 4 to anima.

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Originally Posted by Alisane

....What do you guys think?

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As my undersatnding, you will not have any problem even you have all crafting accessories, if you get any healer from this forum. ^^;

Seriously, I have both sets and very often +STR is much better when farming,
but there are some situation likes pugging roulettes,
switching to full +VIT before big pull maybe more comfortable...
just switching back to full +STR before boss fights^^;