WAR 4.0

What would u like to see from War in 4.0? Never played WAR only to lvl 30 for skill for DRK so no experience here but anyways. From what I hear people are happy with war. What u wana see from war.

A weakness.

*hides

more tank features

More self heals and more damage abilities. :F

A trait that increase crit chance by 5% on all attacks against enemies with Fracture applied. Give me a reason to use this past lvl 35 SE.

A trait that grants Steel Cyclone a 50% hp return on all damage dealt so I'll actualy consider using it instead of Decimate/Fell Cleave/Inner Beast(just look at it's competition).

A trait that gives Inner Beast a 25% chance to reset the CD on Unchained.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

A trait that increase crit chance by 5% on all attacks against enemies with Fracture applied. Give me a reason to use this past lvl 35 SE.

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Oh god yes. I only ever use Fracture if level synced with nothing better to do.

An increase in the difficulty floor and ceiling of the class and respectable returns for the latter.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

An increase in the difficulty floor and ceiling of the class and respectable returns for the latter.

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"Salted Earth" has been applied

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Originally Posted by bounddreamer

"Salted Earth" has been applied

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https://media.giphy.com/media/3Q8IdWumS3HCo/giphy.gif

#Delicious

A reason to use fracture.

More defensive options. We really only have one reliable damage reduction cooldown, Vengeance. Foresight only works on physical, and Raw Intuition only works on things that can be parried. Inner beast is fine, but you'd have to sit on 5 stacks for a while for tankbusters, until you're extremely familiar with the timings for a fight.

Fell Cleave/Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone/Decimate be the same damn button. It's a waste of two spots on my bar at all times, since I don't want to make a clunky macro to deal with it.

A high potency combo I could use instead of BB. Maybe off of Maim, along with SP and SE, but has just straight damage. I ride my PLD's MT's threat pretty hard, and pull it sometimes when just trying to do my highest DPS combo.

War is in a good place right now though, I'm happy with how it works. (Also happy that I play exactly the same at 60 as I do at 50, other then sometimes being in a different stance now).

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Originally Posted by Lethallin

A reason to use fracture.


Fell Cleave/Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone/Decimate be the same damn button. It's a waste of two spots on my bar at all times, since I don't want to make a clunky macro to deal with it.

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Macro
/ac "Fell Cleave" <t>
/ac "Inner Beast" <t>

If you are in Deliverance, Fell cleave will go off. If you are in Defiance, Fell Cleave will be ignored and Inner Beast will go off. You're welcome #unclunky

Wanting higher skill floor and greater returns would both make the warrior more powerful and distinguish the great warriors from the good warriors. Currently it has the largest self heals, highest dps, exceptional mitigation and aggro and the skill floor isn't really that high for the class while also having almost no negative trade offs for any of this. This makes it the easiest to use effectively. Im not saying to nerf any of this, im saying increase these things while adding a layer of depth and complexity to a degree that would make it more powerful for those who know the ins and outs of the class. The trade off being that those who weren't as good wouldn't see as much efficiency from the class but this is something that is already true for the other tank classes and most classes in the game. Granted this would likely result in some backlash by the ppl who like "ez mode" results much like the when bard skill floor and drg skill floor increases were implemented but that's to be expected.

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Originally Posted by Iagainsti

Macro
/ac "Fell Cleave" <t>
/ac "Inner Beast" <t>

If you are in Deliverance, Fell cleave will go off. If you are in Defiance, Fell Cleave will be ignored and Inner Beast will go off. You're welcome #unclunky

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You get an error message when using that either way, don't you? That kind of annoys me.

And sometimes, macros just don't seem to work. My PLD partner had his provoke macro not actually have the ability go off after saying something in chat enough times, to where I don't want to use a macro for anything that could actually be important to battle. Thanks though.

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Originally Posted by Lethallin

You get an error message when using that either way, don't you? That kind of annoys me.

And sometimes, macros just don't seem to work. My PLD partner had his provoke macro not actually have the ability go off after saying something in chat enough times, to where I don't want to use a macro for anything that could actually be important to battle. Thanks though.

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Chat macros can do that, that's why I leave the line out. With this macro, and the same can be made for SC/Decimate, you'll only see the error message if you're in Defiance due to FC not going off. You can filter out system messages in your chat log to get around this also. Believ me when I say this is not clunky as I use it every 15 seconds when in combat.

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Originally Posted by Dante_V

Wanting higher skill floor and greater returns would both make the warrior more powerful and distinguish the great warriors from the good warriors. Currently it has the largest self heals, highest dps, exceptional mitigation and aggro and the skill floor isn't really that high for the class while also having almost no negative trade offs for any of this. This makes it the easiest to use effectively. Im not saying to nerf any of this, im saying increase these things while adding a layer of depth and complexity to a degree that would make it more powerful for those who know the ins and outs of the class. The trade off being that those who weren't as good wouldn't see as much efficiency from the class but this is something that is already true for the other tank classes and most classes in the game.

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https://media.giphy.com/media/XudJqNtDZkGOI/giphy.gif

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Originally Posted by Lethallin

A reason to use fracture.


Fell Cleave/Inner Beast and Steel Cyclone/Decimate be the same damn button. It's a waste of two spots on my bar at all times, since I don't want to make a clunky macro to deal with it.

A high potency combo I could use instead of BB. Maybe off of Maim, along with SP and SE, but has just straight damage. I ride my PLD's MT's threat pretty hard, and pull it sometimes when just trying to do my highest DPS combo.

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You should just use the macro that swaps out the moves when you switch stances, that way its always on the same button ( and you can Queue the attack it since it will be the base skill and not a macro)

I would be happy if they just didn't change anything about war. Just leave it the way it is. Very balanced job.

I want to see no changes, for WAR is fine as is.

Things I'd like to see:

- Unchained equivalent for Deliverance that raises crit/dmg, same CD/duration as Unchained.
- New Infuriate that enables you to stack up wrath/abandon to 10. Fades after you hit 10.
- Defensive buff that eats the current amount of stacks - somewhat weak at 1 stack, quite strong at 5, very strong at 10.
- Cooldown that increases your defense by the cost of attack power in defiance while heavily increases your attack power in deliverance for the cost of defense - gives one stack.
- Counter skill that deals damage if you get hit within your gcd. If you don't get hit within that gcd at all, you get a vuln up debuff for one gcd period.

I want to see the parry removed from Defiance. Put almost any other stat on there, just remove that awful parry.

Also, Fell Cleave II.

Ideally, a bit more controlled chaos, and a bit more things to press, if that can be done without bloating. Possibly a bit more attack speed.

Ability redundancies consolidated, button-wise (FC and IB, SC and Decimate).

Ability-based healing to scale with Defiance, Convalescence, and Mantra. Equilibrium reduced to 900 potency to compensate. (Does 10% less on average, but 5% more with Convalescence.)

A Rampage ability. No idea how it would work, but I want something of this sort.

Possibly a Fracture revision to make it not just another lame DoT. I don't mind using it at 4-5 stacks of Abandon, but it otherwise feels really lackluster, even as a 300 potency ability, given that it doesn't give any stacks.

Possibly a Inner Beast revision to make it more useful when the damage taken is little, such as by perhaps granting a combination of Defense and self-healing for six seconds based on your current health (the higher your %HP is, the more Defense it gives but less healing), making it more useful for healer-less scenarios. Over the duration, any self-heal over-healing you do extends your maximum HP for 6 seconds, at the end of which it fades over the next 6 seconds. (Would like to see some PLD and DRK self-healing buffs to balance this out.)

Maybe something like a Steelguard ability, that would excel for taking numerous small hits for increased MT damage thereafter.

Some kind of deadlock ability, like a channeled stun, where you can continue a flurry of accelerated autos while holding the enemy's weapon in a strong bind or outright holding the enemy off the ground with one arm? Ehh, nah.

Raw Intuition doing something more interesting than just 20% mitigation with a side of Don't-Let-Shit-Get-Around-You-Without-Awareness!! (?)

Honestly, the job is just really solid already. I don't find it quite as fun as DRK when DRK's owning its mana generation capacity, but it's pretty great. Honestly, so much I would like to revise for DRK, or even PLD, but hardly anything for WAR.

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Originally Posted by liljramos88

What would u like to see from War in 4.0? Never played WAR only to lvl 30 for skill for DRK so no experience here but anyways. From what I hear people are happy with war. What u wana see from war.

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I wanna see War study under The Source just like that guy from Krypton.

fracture trait that makes it have some sort of fun/interesting effect in addition to the endlessly arguable dps increase in the realm of... 1% iirc?

A leap(or charge/rushdown) attack and/or warcry. The leap attack would ideally be a low potency aoe with zone targeting, and either a dot or other additional effect like vuln up or a second stun or some sort of damage down effect. I'm sure all of these would cause outrage amongst drks and plds, even though GOOD drks are actually outparsing warriors these days.

The warcry would have similar effects (maybe a dmg up or skillspeed up buff for 5/10s?) but with an additional wrath stack mechanic. If we want to get really fun make it do different things in defiance and deliverance.

As far as raw defense goes I have to violently disagree with other suggestions. Raw intuition closed the only gap in warriors defensive options. Everyone compares RI to shelltron when if anything RI is like gimpy rampart and shelltron is like a gimpy but instant IB. At the most they should get at this point is something like another layer of bloodbath. Maybe something like life surge, I can see that being a lot of fun to stack with berserk and bloodbath.

Everyone rants about fell cleave and ST dps, but RI has been one of warriors most empowering new tools imo. Giving War more defensive cds would further homogenize all tanks while allowing WAR to further monopolize the "best tank" slot.

Of course if every tank got tankier and all these new additional abilities were needed to survive, this argument would be moot. But at some point defensive CD's are all planned and executed way easier than offensive cds. I think this is what the "tanks should be tankier" camp on these forums are missing. Tanking past a certain point hits a ceiling where you're just spamming additional CD's at additional points in any given fight. If you can't adapt to using some basic offensive CD's I have a hard time believing said players would feel any additional reward from a higher raw mitigation ceiling. Such a ceiling still wouldn't empower vit stacking or other bad play habits. People would still be frustrated but would come up with a different excuse to justify their personal shortcomings rather than "the evil dps meta".

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Originally Posted by Anienai

I wanna see War study under The Source just like that guy from Krypton.

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And seriously along these lines, make the story good? I don't think this should be hard for square, but most of the 50-60 stories were crap. War was basically a RoeBroFest. And all about limsa again which made it feel more like marauder 2.0 than warrior expansion story.

Give us no abilities but make the story awesome and more involved with harnessing inner beast, iron will, (not the abilities) and overcoming insurmountable odds through sheer force of manliness rather than foo foo dark or light magics and I'll be happy.

If drk is silver age Guts, War is Golden Age Guts.

I want to see the blur between warrior and dps actually be split. Being able to tank and dps in one hurts the holy trinity and paladin specific.

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Originally Posted by ArdorGrey

And seriously along these lines, make the story good? I don't think this should be hard for square, but most of the 50-60 stories were crap. War was basically a RoeBroFest. And all about limsa again which made it feel more like marauder 2.0 than warrior expansion story.

Give us no abilities but make the story awesome and more involved with harnessing inner beast, iron will, (not the abilities) and overcoming insurmountable odds through sheer force of manliness rather than foo foo dark or light magics and I'll be happy.

If drk is silver age Guts, War is Golden Age Guts.

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That seriously was a spa-day with the RoidsRoerriors questline...

I have to wonder though, how do we actually get more of a feeling of harnessing our Inner Beast? I mean, even as it is now, it doesn't feel like our Inner Beast is even really involved in the ability. It just feels like another mitigation tool, though at least one that has a somewhat uniquely modifiable usage rate. It's a solid tool, but it just doesn't feel especially relevant to the name. The same could be said for Equilibrium, but to a lesser degree imo; at least it lets you compensate for either form of sort of over-extending yourself (in HP or TP). If it was actually based more on what you were doing in each stance, and actually finding that equilibrium, then it'd fit much more to its name (though quite likely would not be as effective a tool). It'd be great to see something that actually gives identity intrinsically, not just by its own and surrounding abilities' practicality and synergy... as great a WAR as that does make.

P.S. In a way... as DRK-looking as the Berserker armor is, shouldn't that kinda be the WAR's thing?

*combine IB/FC and decimate/SC to conserve space.
*make me want to use fracture regularly
*gap closer
*defiance parry boost replaced with anything

Bonus: actually combine FC and IB. Not just the buttons...hehehehehe

War seems like such a perfectly designed job that its hard to add something meaningful to it. In essence Jobs in FFXIV are mixtures of multiple classical jobs of old FF's. In WARs case its a mix of Warrior, Viking and Berserker. I always felt that a little bit of Beastmaster would fit perfectly for it with all the taming your inner beast and stuff.

another Bloodbath type skill would be nice.

I want Bloodbath giving 100% heal returns back, Inner beast being implemented into fell cleave and double crit chance, yolo 10Kcrit here i come

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Originally Posted by Lethallin

You get an error message when using that either way, don't you? That kind of annoys me.

And sometimes, macros just don't seem to work. My PLD partner had his provoke macro not actually have the ability go off after saying something in chat enough times, to where I don't want to use a macro for anything that could actually be important to battle. Thanks though.

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This is the perfect solution to your problem. Since you can only use the skills in their corresponding stances, you can save a couple of hotbar slots if you use macros to swap them in and out. The WAR stances are off the GCD so you don't have to worry about the macros slowing down your rotation either.

Defiance:
/micon "Defiance"
/ac "Defiance" <me>
/hotbar action "Inner Beast" # #
/hotbar action "Steel Cyclone" # #
Deliverance:
/micon "Deliverance"
/ac "Deliverance" <me>
/hotbar action "Fell Cleave" # #
/hotbar action "Decimate" # #

The two # in the /hotbar commands correspond to the hotbar and slot where you want to put the skill. So, putting "1 10" will set the skill to hotbar 1, slot 10.

Hell Cleave

#metal

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Originally Posted by Donjo

A weakness.

*hides

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I ain't hiding. Every other job has one, no reason for WAR not to as well. ;D

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

I ain't hiding. Every other job has one, no reason for WAR not to as well. ;D

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We have to deal with the hate of everyone else while they should strive for a better future for their own job. I count that as a weakness :D

I laughed at a lot of this.

For those wanting a better inner beast, read the tooltip again. It's a 6 second rampart with 300 potency and a self heal. It is usable 4 times per minute if you want it. It's a rampart on demand, it's the best defensive in the game for tankbusters. They are predictable and you have the perfect skill.

Best suggestion here was taking the Butcher's block potency and putting it on something else, preferably storm's path. Make the sp combo the highest damage combo. Our WAR rides my threat all the way to the bank with his bb usage and this makes me have to power slash more. I get less potency and less mp, it's a dps loss for the raid and it was like this back in the day with PLD. Make sp rhe higher damage and we get better damage as a whole.

Downside is war will become even more perfect. It applies 10 damage reduction while doing its strongest combo, but for the other tanks it is an increase that would be welcomed.

I like all jobs right where they are: balanced. You have 8 people in a party each one bringing their own strengths with which to compliment each other's weaknesses. I'll listen to anyone who can tell me how a job with no definable weaknesses is balanced. For balance to happen you have to have strengths in one scale, weaknesses in the other. That's what balance is. Right now WAR's scales are on the floor after having tipped over 7 months ago and a vocal minority of them are like "uhh this is where all jobs should be sorry you're not l33t like us, just go to SE's table and beg for scraps until they give you all this stuff we have". You can't give a job strengths and then in the slots where its weaknesses or shortcomings would go, just put more strengths. That's categorically unbalanced, by definition.

"Well-designed" isn't how I'd put it either. It doesn't fit in with the design of the rest of the job system. Its an island unto itself that needs the least input from others. WAR as a job values other jobs less because it has no weaknesses that need to be covered by the rest of its party. It doesn't fit into a team mentality really. That's poor, unbalanced design.

But no, lets remove all weaknesses from all jobs to make them more like WAR and make the need for any one job or role completely obsolete. That's logical? I'm open to reasonable argument to the contrary but really most responses just come down to a simple "NO U."

Imagine NIN/DRG/MNK. Give all of them the utility of NIN and the DPS of MNK. Just all 10/10 across the board, no deviations, no peaks/troughs. Doesn't sound balanced to me. Give SCH/AST/WHM each their own Bene, fairy, and deck of cards. Balanced?

Balance
noun
#2. a condition in which different elements are equal or in the correct proportions.

I don't want Fell Cleave/Equilibrium/Storm's Eye for my job. I'm happy with my job where it is. Its balanced. Its not perfect and those imperfections are balanced by synergy given to me by the rest of my group, and I like that, I like being part of a whole, a team. I like balance.

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Originally Posted by Syzygian

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The WAR is well balanced on its own. It has well tuned mechanics and is perfectly viable everywhere. I do think however that its dps numbers are a bit too high considering it has a nearly guaranteed spot in every team. Look at the poor paladin, which has less dps AND less survivability than WAR. I'm not sure Hallowed Ground can make up for the difference alone.

WAR is also well balanced in the focus of FFxiv : all jobs have to be viable everywhere and totally interchangeable (idea being, you can go in anything with any "no double" composition and get a clear). While it does great at being viable, the fact that nearly every other job doesn't work as well as WAR does botches the balance. It then leaves only 2 options :

=> improving the other jobs to restore the balance by finally making them all equal in all situation (which is but a dream, but a dream we should strive for nevertheless)
=> botching the way WAR works now to get a weakness which will be overcome by someone else's strengh, creating a general balance BUT making it impossible to go with wahtever party composition and still clear everything, because some compositions won't be able to overcome the weaknesses that have risen.

One is unattainable, the other isn't something we should aim for. What to do ?

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

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How would WAR's hypothetical weakness be so much more detrimental to raid groups for bringing one than the weaknesses that every other job in the game has? How would WAR dealing with a *single* meaningful shortcoming make it impossible to clear fights with any party composition? I'm not following. I see logic like this everywhere. Like the lifeblood of the game and its player-base's ability to clear content hinges on WAR staying where it is. It says to me that we really don't actually understand what balance is.

Here's the thing. All jobs ARE viable in every situation. You can clear anything with anything, with the exception of the first few weeks of Alex Savage which SE already admitted was a mistake. I remember when Thordan first came out people were saying DRK wouldn't be able to take it because of the high physical damage, and youtube was littered with DRK MT clears within the first week. The issue is that although any job is viable and any content is doable, WAR just does it BETTER. There's no need for better. Viable and doable is enough. That's balanced. WAR being inherently better than every job in the game is unbalanced. The rest of the jobs in the game have distinct strengths and weaknesses yet -some- (not all) WAR mains seem to think the onus is on the rest of the playerbase to see their mains as flawed and poorly designed and plead for buffs. It isn't that WAR works in any situation, that part is fine. Almost all jobs work in any situation depending on party composition. Its that its BETTER in any situation.

Warrior's have a weakness; no Shield slot. There, I said it.

Weakness is no TP for overpower spam. :<