Ideas for Monk

Please note that I have not and will not play PvP so all these ideas come from a PvE standpoint.

Haymaker - I think this should be put on a 30s or 60s cool down off the global timer. You could remove the slow effect or lower the potency a little or maybe both to compensate.

Touch of Death, One Ilm Punch - I think these should be swapped somewhat. I think One Ilm Punch should have Touch of Death's DoT effect at a reduced tp cost. (Touch of Death isn't worth 80 tp to me). For Touch of Death, I think it should be a ranged attack that works like Wave Fist from Final Fantasy Tactics. That way lower lvl Monks could pull enemies out of groups to help lvling.

Arm of the Destroyer - Not sure what you could do with this move except raise it's potency and possibly remove the silence effect to compensate???

Purification - Should be unconnected from Chakra stacks. It's on a 2min timer and doesn't even recover as much tp as Invigorate.

Meditation, Forbidden Chakra - I think they should do away with Meditation and just give you Forbidden Chakra. When you learn Forbidden Chakra you then start accumulating Chakra stacks when you use Snap Punch, Demolish, or Rock Breaker from their preferred stances or during Perfect Balance, similar to Wrath stacks on Warrior.

Tornado Kick - I think when you learn Tornado Kick you should unlock a forth Grease Lightning stack that doesn't increase your damage or attack speed, but allows you to use Tornado Kick once every 60s. It also shouldn't remove this 4th GL stack or your other stacks.

What are your thoughts?

Most of these are straight DPS increases which isnt what MNK needs. MNK's DPS is the best in the game. the only thing that MNK needs is offensive party utility. I think they could add the offensive utility to one ilm punch, but it would have to be unique and create synergy with the other classes. That is the one thing that MNK lacks synergy not DPS.

I was just trying to make some of the skills I hardly use have more of a use lol. I admit I don't do end game raiding so party synergy isn't much of a concern for me. But I do see your point for that sort of thing.

ToD, Forbidden chakra, Purification and tornado kick are all well balanced and aren't in need of any changes imo. Arm of the destroyer, Haymaker, One Ilm Punch though really needs a change. But I would say the only change AotD needs is a tp reduction. It's TP cost is just too high to be of any use. One Ilm Punch just like Shalupa said should just offer some kind of offensive utility. Haymaker.... well what to do with this even.. Probably just increase potency, its actual use is for soloing so I would just keep it at that.

Most of these are not really what MNK needs.

Haymaker-Primarily only used while leveling because it is proc base by evading an attack. You'll never use this at level cap unless you are tanking something.
Touch of Death-It IS worth the 80TP if the target doesn't die before the DoT runs its full course.
Tornado Kick-Was meant to be a finisher or you know you're going to lose your stacks regardless so in exchange for losing your stacks anyways you just pop TK and make use of your lose.
Chakras-Was meant to make use of your downtime to prepare your next opening rotation after a transition.
Arm-Remove silence and add potency? So you want it to be like Rockbreaker but cost 10 more TP?

MNK doesn't need damage adjustments, they're actually in a good place. The only thing we bring raid wise is just our personal DPS and Mantra(Maybe DK if the group doesn't run DRK)

How is Touch of Death worth 80 tp when it does significantly lower damage than Demolish which is only 50 tp.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

How is Touch of Death worth 80 tp when it does significantly lower damage than Demolish which is only 50 tp.

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Because it does significantly more damage than every other GCD.

Last time I calculated Touch of Death on a lvl 60 dummy it does 1400 total. Demolish did 2100 total. That's un-grease lightninged.

Rough math(Dragon Kick)(No buffs)

p = potency

Bootshine: 165p
-Critshine: 247p~
Dragon Kick: 165p
True Strike: 209p
Twin Snakes: 154p
Snap Punch: 198p
Demolish: 357p

Touch of Death: 272p

That's interesting. How did you calculate those?

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

How is Touch of Death worth 80 tp when it does significantly lower damage than Demolish which is only 50 tp.

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Its a 25Potency DoT that ticks for 30sec. So while you are still doing your rotation for the next 30sec that DoT is ticking away. So you have both ToD and Demo up which is 65potency of DoTs ticking away while you're doing your usual rotation. It's still a DPS increase so long as it runs it's full course. It also is going to be buffed by B4B and GL3. If you don't care about min/max or raiding, then don't worry about it. Doing dungeons or casual content, TP should never be an issue anyways so throwing 80TP on boss fights isn't going to leave you TP starved or anything.

I'd love at least one ranged attack for when shoulder tackle is on cool down; that way I can attack while heading toward a target/ waiting for the aoe to finished.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

That's interesting. How did you calculate those?

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I added the damage increase from Dragon Kick to all of the single-target/used GCDs. I only did that because DOT ticks are not effected by Dragon Kick.

Eh if theres one thing SE love its balance and these ideas you have wouldnt go over smoothly with em.

We dont need damage, we are doing pretty damn good single target damage and have good aoe to boot but what we lack is raid utility and yea i use mantra all the time and im sure my healers love it but we just dont compare to DRG and NIN as far as utility and if that changes MNK might get nerfs for all we know cus its gonna be great.

And dont you talk crap about purification man we are now the only self sustained physical dps with not one but two tp moves.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

Please note that I have not and will not play PvP so all these ideas come from a PvE standpoint.

Haymaker - I think this should be put on a 30s or 60s cool down off the global timer. You could remove the slow effect or lower the potency a little or maybe both to compensate.

Touch of Death, One Ilm Punch - I think these should be swapped somewhat. I think One Ilm Punch should have Touch of Death's DoT effect at a reduced tp cost. (Touch of Death isn't worth 80 tp to me). For Touch of Death, I think it should be a ranged attack that works like Wave Fist from Final Fantasy Tactics. That way lower lvl Monks could pull enemies out of groups to help lvling. Meditation allows you to prep 320 potency while out of reach over 6 seconds. That's almost as strong as three Shield Lobs / Tomahawks / Throwing Daggers, etc., and much more Monk-appropriate.

Arm of the Destroyer - Not sure what you could do with this move except raise it's potency and possibly remove the silence effect to compensate???

Purification - Should be unconnected from Chakra stacks. It's on a 2min timer and doesn't even recover as much tp as Invigorate.

Meditation, Forbidden Chakra - I think they should do away with Meditation and just give you Forbidden Chakra. When you learn Forbidden Chakra you then start accumulating Chakra stacks when you use Snap Punch, Demolish, or Rock Breaker from their preferred stances or during Perfect Balance, similar to Wrath stacks on Warrior.

Tornado Kick - I think when you learn Tornado Kick you should unlock a forth Grease Lightning stack that doesn't increase your damage or attack speed, but allows you to use Tornado Kick once every 60s. It also shouldn't remove this 4th GL stack or your other stacks.

What are your thoughts?

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Haymaker as an oGCD would give a huge advantage in the "turn-around" room-wide AoEs. Leave it for the Bards, who actually need to catch up.

You should absolutely be using Touch of Death unless starved for TP. Technically, you should also be using Fracture if you won't be pressed for TP.

I'd rather have the shit potency and an AoE silence. We already have PB-Rockbreaker spam and Elixir Field.

I like Purification as it is. It gives me something to do with my shitty current skill-speed by allowing me to Meditate once per DK/Twin/Demo losslessly, providing a little over 5 stacks per Purification CD.

Do away with Mediation, and we just get even more dull. Your solution, isn't bad, however, except in that it decreases optionality, making tFC just a move you have to hit twice per minute (slower when non-stance, thereby reducing Fracture and ToD value slightly), and now increases uptime dps instead of helping in downtime, the exact opposite of what it was built for. I also don't see why you'd separate Purification from Meditation stacks with that system.

I'd rather just see Tornado Kick buffed so it's optionally usable in combat. There's also no point whatsoever to the added fourth GL stack, as compared to just increasing Tornado Kick's CD from 40s to 60s and making it not remove stacks, except to delay its activation by 6 seconds.

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Counteroffer:
Reduce One-Ilm Punch TP cost from 120 to 90 outside of PvP--the reduced damage compared to True Strike or Twin Snakes should be cost enough--or improve its buff-destruction in some way.
Also, need more (preferably interesting) buffs on mobs in general... So we can... sabotage them.

Arm of the Destroyer TP cost reduced from 130 to 100 (23% reduction) AND/OR potency increased from 50 to 70 (40% increase). [Internally balanced by Form Shift, further down]

Tornado Kick potency increased from 330 to 360, largely just to scale with the increase to Greased Lightning damage bonus. Might now be viable in combat if used at the end of BFB/IR, with all oGCDs used, and all DoTs up, just before a Snap Punch. Will definitely be viable before a Perfect Balance.
::Possibly remove CD in PVE or reduce it to 10 or 12 seconds. (Just enough to prevent people from using TK 7s earlier into IR/BFB for a TK, Snap, PB, Snap, Snap, TK, Snap, Snap, Demo when they have a DKB, but not so much as to prevent a TK, Snap, 6 GCDs to return to GL3, TK. In this way you could still use a TK as an in-combat nuke and follow it with a pre-downtime usage.)

Meditation recast now scales with Skill Speed.

Form Shift recast reduced by 20%. Should feel like a buff for more than just keeping up GL3 between dungeon pulls. Can now squeeze out an extra Courl you'd otherwise lose GL prior to when returning to melee reach / uptime.

Perfect Balance CD reduced to 2 minutes (in PvE(?)). It's not a huge difference, given Form Shift openers (e.g. Demo, DK, BFB, Twin, IR, Snap, EF, Boot, Steel, True, Snap, HF, ToD, tFC, DK, Twin, Demo) falling only ~10% short of their PB equivalent, and we don't get that much out of True Strike spam. Mostly there to improve recovery, and improve TK / PB-burst gameplay, and dungeoning.

Howling Fist base potency increased from 70 to 190, and now does additional potency (+10 each) based on the number of enemies it will hit, to a maximum of 240 potency. Or, alternatively, works opposite to Flare/Holy/Gravity, dealing 10% more damage with each progressive enemy, to a maximum of +50% at 5 (285) or more likely 40% at 4 (266). [20 more ST potency per minute]
In exchange, Elixir Field potency is reduced from 220 to 210. [20 less potency per minute]
Together, slightly more AoE dps especially at 50. ST dps unchanged. ST oGCD priority unchanged.
Can also just add that reverse-Flare/Holy/Gravity factor to Howling Fist and leave it and Elixir Field otherwise unchanged...

Twin Snakes now grants 10% increased damage by default. The level 28 trait now improves Haymaker instead, increasing the effectiveness of its Slow from 20% to 33% and causing it to deal an extra 20 potency to targets immune to its Slow effect. This makes it situationally usable in place of a Fracture in typical PvE content for reduced dps but greater TP efficiency and improves Pugilist / Monk utility in dungeons. [May make base instead of trait, so that a Warrior, Ninja, or Dragoon might have reason to equip it, though honestly Warriors don't need any more TP-saving...]

Activation time and animation/ability locks of all "Fists of" abilities greatly reduced. Cooldowns reduced to 1.5 seconds. Can no longer drop out of using any "Fists of" ability, only swap between them.


Tldr: Gameplay improvers and QoL changes with a bit more AoE especially at 50, more PB, more Tornado Kick usage and complexity, with minimal ST dps increases.

General changes I'd like to see:
- TP refresh now ticks for 20% less but per GCD instead of per 3 seconds (at least 20% more frequently), such that Skill Speed builds are not necessarily TP-starved.
- Skill Speed now reduces a percentage of the remaining GCD, rather than base GCD, no longer favoring only high Skill Speed numbers.
- Skill Speed now affects oGCD damage somewhat.
- Bloodbath, Foresight, Keen Flurry, and Featherfoot cooldowns reduced from 90s to 60s.
- Mantra cooldown reduced from 120s to 90s and now gives 7% or 8% bonus healing by default, up from 5%.
- Fracture tick potency increased from 20 to 25. Total potency now 350, from 300, for Marauder, and 250 from 220 for others, making it more situationally viable for 2.4s PLD and pre-60 DRG. OR Fracture TP cost reduced from 80 to 70. (Still less TP efficient than Touch of Death at 273 for 80 (3.41) vs. 230 for 70 (3.29).)

I would love Haymaker to be OGCD, just for Monks. Otherwise I don't use it...I don't really raid often (I know you can use it after dodging gaze like attacks)
One Ilm Punch it's more of a PVP skill, if it got a tweak it would be nice though...and it's my favourite Monk animation ....FLAPPY ARMS.

I don't use Arm even if I'm AOEing, I'd rather use rotate DK between enemies or BS them instead...the TP cost and damage is too low...silence is good for ...well silencing stuff back in the old Coils >.< (if No Bard/PLD)

My goal with these ideas wasn't to add damage to Monk, tho that is a happy side effect. It was to make Monk less situational. Cause if the situation in which you are meant to use an ability never arises that ability is useless.

Haymaker for example currently can only be used after dodging something. But in a party you should never be tanking damage unless your tank sucks / is under geared or you are attacking a mob the tank isn't attacking so Haymaker rarely gets used. Add to that that is on the global cool down and you run the risk of losing your GL stacks trying to use it, much less now that they increased GL duration, or the chance to use it runs out before you get a chance to use it.

For Meditation, outside of raids and the occasional EX primal, no boss really gives you a time to use Meditation as you can normally use Form Shift to keep your GL stacks up as opposed to using TK and then using Meditation.

You can say Tornado Kick was meant to be used when you know you are going to run out of GL, but with the inclusion of Form Shift you shouldn't be running out of GL during a fight. (Granted sometimes I do on the 1st and 2nd bosses of Neverreap... man I hate that dungeon lol)

Again I don't PvP and I especially don't raid so synergy and what not doesn't really effect me. I was just trying to make the job a little more fun to play :)

Maybe its just me but offering more skills to be used on a regular basis isnt something i really want either. Chakra is a habit these days and my rotation doesnt work without form shift. The job itself is a lot of fun and if you dont find dancing around the enemy fun maybe its not for you, idk.

You dont really see SMN self heal themselves or whip out titan to tank for them, abilities they use in solo mostly, we got similar abilities and thats that, no reason to take that away and i dont see how it would be more fun cus imo it was just enough fun while leveling.

And you do not realize the time you could be using meditation.

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Originally Posted by myahele

I'd love at least one ranged attack for when shoulder tackle is on cool down; that way I can attack while heading toward a target/ waiting for the aoe to finished.

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It would be nice to have a forward (ranged) kamehameha in addition to the downward kamehameha. It would be neat if you could aim it by turning too lol.

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Originally Posted by enthauptet

It would be nice to have a forward (ranged) kamehameha in addition to the downward kamehameha. It would be neat if you could aim it by turning too lol.

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That would be so awesome, lol.

Honestly I'd love One-Ilm Punch if they made it a self clense instead of a buff destroyer. I guess i've just gotten used to MNK bringing nothing but its own damage to the party, so not needing the healer to clense a stack of poison/paralyze/slow off me and doing it myself would make me put that skill back on the hotbar.