Seems to me the amount of in-game spam I receive from these sellers is just a lawsuit waiting to happen. It's basic online harassment. If it's in trade chat fine I can leave/ignore trade and it's pretty much on Square to deal with. Targeting/whispering players directly at the ridiculous rate it happens is the epitome of harassment. Take down one and the rest will fall like dominoes. Cease and desist is where I plan to start.
Gil Spam
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01-11-2016, 06:03 PMMortoolGil Spam
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01-11-2016, 08:39 PMLegion88
Didn't laugh so much for a long time.
RMT is a market on its own.
If SE would bring in a bank with a moneylending system it could reduce RMTs a lot.
Lend X Gil by an NPC and lower all of your Gil income from drops, sells, etc. for a fixed percentage to payback the Gil. Fix the summed up reduction to a max percentage of like 50% and all would be happy, except gil sellers. -
01-11-2016, 09:11 PMxXRaineXx
There is one very simple way to 'fix' this and it involves doing nothing.
First of all, people got to stop buying overpriced items on the MB. I've seen something sell for 50m on the MB before. The more people buy overpriced items, this encourages the seller to continue selling at extravagant prices, why? Because there are enough idiots out there to fill their greed.
If people stopped buying things at crazy prices, sellers will have no choice but to reduce the price until it's down to a price people are willing to pay. Every item on the MB has a undisclosed 'sweetspot', a pricetag where you won't hesitate to buy. This sweetspot is affected by the general gil consumption of the community. You will need to bring the market down to that sweetspot, so that people won't be left without option to buy gil through RMT.
But we all know this cannot happen. There is a reason why greed is a deadly sin. Because some may say the DEVS are too selfish to accept their own mistakes, but in reality they cannot accept their own selfish greed. -
01-11-2016, 10:01 PMGranyala
If SE wouldn't design crafting to be as tedious, grindy soul crushing and RNG infested (Hello 16% chance overmeld with materia @120K gil a pop) then we would not have this problem.
More people would level their crafters, more people would EQUIP them at 60 (the true brick wall grind) to be able to craft star recipes.
More supply same/less demand -> Prices go down. Economics 101.
SE simply fails to account for player mentality when it comes to crafting, since we all know how much better asian folks can tolerate mind numbing grinds compared to western players. -
01-11-2016, 11:31 PMAcyd
Cease and desist. Holy crap, thanks for the morning smile.
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01-12-2016, 01:30 AMRyuSaarvawhat your melding is 16% that seems really high unless you don't even overmeld items propelry and grade IV control materia is about 180k and grade III is 60k right now on phoenix, so since I am out of materia right now, I only craft tools and body pieces which I don't plan to meld before grade V materias become easier to get.Quote:
Originally Posted by Granyala
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01-12-2016, 01:41 AMGranyalaMeld chances (e.g.: Chestnut accessories): 100% -> 35% -> 16% -> 11% -> 7%Quote:
Originally Posted by RyuSaarva
Generally it is not advisable to use Tier IV materia on Slot 4/5 since you burn way too much gil trying to press that one in.
Also LMAO for calling a 16% chance "high". It is crap like this that makes people shy away from Engame crafting.
The result is what you people lament: a few persons controlling the markets. -
01-12-2016, 01:49 AMAndrea
Are...are people actually saying that crafting/crafters cause people to buy gil?
No one causes anyone to buy gil, not crafters, nor people who put expensive items on the MB, nor the people who sell runs/clears.
People buying gil is the blame of one person and thats the person who is buying it because they are lazy. If instead of buying gil and working for what they want they decide to take the easy way. To try to blame anyone else is rather amusing. -
01-12-2016, 01:58 AMWaeksyn
I've finally just turned off Tells altogether in my General chat log. I get about 1 gil spam tell every 2 minutes.
It would be nice to have a feature to turn tells off from players below a certain level, along with white lists where you could exempt friends, etc. I don't think gil sellers would like having accounts banned with fully leveled characters. This has been suggested / requested of SE for years now but clearly they are not interested in fixing this. I've heard before that gil selling spam is really only an issue on the NA / Euro servers. That may be why our Japanese developers don't seem to give a s**t about this issue. -
01-12-2016, 02:12 AMGranyalaYes and no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrea
If the prices of required items (such as Relic parts) are out of sync with what a non crafting character can generate within reasonable amounts of time, then the motivation to "cheat" by buying gil from ext sources is increased.
Prevalent spam and apparent inaction on SEs part only further incentivize people to take shortcuts.
If the relic stuff was as dirt cheap as it is on Chocobo (30-50K is laughable) most peeps would go "yeah a few dungeon runs as tank and I have that 50K" instead of risking their account.
@Waeksyn: yes a whisper white list would be nice. Allow friends, and FC to wisper me. block the rest. -
01-12-2016, 02:12 AMLolli282
I agree with this 100%, sometimes it's hard going into main city markets because you get accosted by bots.
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01-12-2016, 02:13 AMKio
As little has been done or recognized by the dev team on this issue I'm almost prone to believe the conspiracy theory on them wanting the RMT around to inflate sub numbers.
I logged on just a moment ago and received an RMT tell at the same exact time as the system welcome message.... This is really ridiculous. -
01-12-2016, 02:36 AMmyahelehttp://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...727d2c611bdd78Quote:
・Accounts receiving disciplinary action for participation in RMT/illegal activity: 2
As of Jan 7 only 2 account's been banned. -
01-12-2016, 02:47 AMAndreaIm sorry but if high prices is causing someone to go out and spend real life money on something that is entirely their fault.Quote:
Originally Posted by Granyala
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01-12-2016, 03:10 AMJoe_SchmoeYes, it's annoying. Especially since it's to where I'm now blacklisting whispers as a knee-jerk reaction. On at least 2 occasions I've blacklisted people that were just trying to talk to me (I took them off immediately after noticing their messages actually looked human, but still,.... ), just out of sheer force of habit. I kinda wish the gold sellers would just get their own website or something, but I doubt that'll happen. >.<Quote:
Gil Spam
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01-12-2016, 03:20 AMAeraLureThis may become my solution as well, sad to say, which limits my chat to FC and LS channels, but what else to do? I too would like a filter based on level so I could keep tells on and get messages from people that dont have other means of contacting me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waeksyn
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01-12-2016, 03:27 AMaestevalAnd if people wouldn't buy overpriced items then the price of the items would have to come down so as to sell anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Granyala
In theory anyway. Things are a bit more complicated in that some markets just aren't competitive enough to bring down prices. But the entire issue is circular with no beginning and end and everyone is to blame in some way or another. -
01-12-2016, 03:45 AMLethallinGood luck sending that C&D to someone in China that can't read English and suing someone internationally on absolutely no legal grounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortool
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01-12-2016, 03:48 AMLethallinQuote:
Originally Posted by myahele
2 got Temp banned, 10,784 got permabanned. May want to read a little closer.Quote:
・Accounts receiving disciplinary action for RMT advertising: 1564
・Accounts receiving disciplinary action for RMT/illicit activity: 9220
・Action Details: Permanent ban from FINAL FANTASY XIV
・Accounts receiving disciplinary action for participation in RMT/illegal activity: 2
・Action Details: Temporary ban from FINAL FANTASY XIV
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01-12-2016, 03:49 AMWarlyxthis ....the example of choco is perfect , since the gil u can generate , lets say doing dungeons is the same in Choco and any NA/EU server , that 5k from being a tank in USA means nothing , in Choco is a "good" amount of gil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Granyala
the reward from doing MSQ quest ? that 4400 gils that ppl laugh at in EU/USA ....what a joke why they even bother? ....in JP servers is woah cool :3 -
01-12-2016, 04:14 AMGranyalaDing, ding, ding, we have a WINNER!Quote:
Originally Posted by aesteval
Now Go ahead and ask WHY there isn't enough competition and you will see that this is something only SE can fix.
How?
Lower the grind associated with crafting. (More supply)
Combat the Gil sellers and punish buyers harshly. (Less people with way too much gil to burn)
Net result: Prices will fall.
But here is the kicker: THEY DON'T CARE. JP servers are fine, NA/EU... doubt they give many flying intercourses about us.
They don't even care enough to give us proper control of our chats (Whitelist, custom filters, ignore by level function etc etc)
Just for kicks though:
What is the price on Chocobo for a "Dhalmel leather" (Lv 54 leather)? On my Cerberus, they are 10-12K a pop depending on the day. -
01-12-2016, 04:31 AMFelmyst
Im out of leve quest. Miner sucks too much to grind. Im done gathering till next week end.
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01-12-2016, 04:59 AMKosmos992kYou forgot this bit...Quote:
Originally Posted by myahele
The 2 you mention are temp bans for players doing stupid things, the other 10784 PERMANENT bans are for RMT gil spammers, other RMT related accounts and egregious cheaters.Quote:
Time Period: Dec. 24, 2015 to Jan. 6, 2016
・Accounts receiving disciplinary action for RMT advertising: 1564
・Accounts receiving disciplinary action for RMT/illicit activity: 9220
・Action Details: Permanent ban from FINAL FANTASY XIV
Lifetime RMT action statistics here.
They've permanently banned over 380,000 accounts due primarily to RMT related activity. -
01-12-2016, 05:00 AMEisen-ZornWhen you have people selling items for millions of gil regardless of their functionality or worth, I can see how some might be tempted to go the easy route.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrea
Still, it really amounts to people wanting something for the least amount of effort. I mean, I don't like having to spend 500k per item just to finish a relic quest, but that's why I leveled a gathering class and spend some time a week gathering ore and selling it to the people who don't want to go out and gather it themselves.
I hate RMT and the spam is getting on my nerves, but the inflated prices on the servers seem to be feeding in to it. I mean, I got a few RMT spams a night at the most before 3.15. However, after the relic quest started? I get them about every five minutes. My blacklist is getting ridiculously long. -
01-12-2016, 05:07 AMIlitsa
First it was people reselling houses that were greedy, now it's crafters, what's next guys? People that run dungeons? Gatherers? Crafters aren't greedy, you pay for their services, you don't like their prices, craft it yourself, or go to someone else. Seriously. This habit of calling anyone that makes more Gil than you "greedy" needs to stop.
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01-12-2016, 05:17 AMaestevalDon't forget the people sending retainers out. :-p Retainers can bring back Kingly Whiskers and they're still obscenely expensive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilitsa
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01-12-2016, 05:39 AMAndreaUsing that logic though why bother having anything hard/long/expensive to get in the game at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn
First it was people selling runs that caused RMT to increase
Then people claimed it was people selling houses.
Now its crafters.
Thats like 70-80% of the game covered there, It honestly would not surprise me that people who gather a lot get blamed next.
Instead of us trying to put some of the blame on people who actually play the game why not put 100% of the blame on both Square and the people who are too lazy to do anything themselves anymore and just want to throw real life money at the screen to make it disappear. -
01-12-2016, 07:11 AMGranyalaSame here. RMT definitely picked up the slack since the relic quest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eisen-Zorn
It's a rather vicious cycle.
Inflated prices feed into people buying gil, people buying gil feed into increasing prices because they are willing to spend more.
Crafters/Gatherers just grin like Ferengi and collect the profits, no questions asked. Guilty of that myself. Also sold basic crap for prices where I wondered how people could afford them. -
01-12-2016, 08:12 AMGunspecIt costs money to hire proper moderators to lock and ban RMT spammers as they commit their offenses. This is what MMOs like WoW, SWTOR, and ESO do to combat spammers, and those games have substantially less spam. I was playing ESO when they finally started having GMs actively shut down spammer accounts, and it went from FFXIV levels of spam to silence in a few days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
Alternatively, they can hire 3 people to slowly take action on a predictable schedule (that RMT plan their bot leveling around like clockwork), and still make your estimated 5% sales while spending far less than any other major MMO on fighting RMT. The result is a game full of spam.
Go check out the forums to other mmos. See if there are threads from players crying about spam. Then ask yourself "what are those games doing that FFXIV isn't?". Because that's the solution to the problem.
Consider for a moment that if I started advertising gil for cash deals on THESE VERY FORUMS, that I would be locked and banned in a matter of minutes. Not days or weeks. MINUTES. Now consider that this isn't happening in the game that these forums officially represent. THAT'S WEIRD. -
01-12-2016, 08:37 AMKosmos992kIs it? SE's practice on dealing with RMT in the past has been to allow bots to continue operating while they use their activity to trace the network of RMT accounts. That way they not only remove the spam bots and farm bots, but also the bankers, transfer accounts and command/control accounts. That's the reason those bots don't always die.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunspec
It's like people who get angry because such and such a spam bot hasn't been removed - because they can still see them in their black list. Except, permanently banned accounts are *not* deleted from the game and so will not say 'Deleted' in your black list. Why is that? Because it prevents RMT from re-using the same character names. This is pretty well known, but even so, you'll still see people on this forum every week complaining about RMT and pointing out that some spambot they reported six times 3 weeks ago is still on their blacklist. If farm bots are allowed to live longer, and the RMT group reactivates them using different command/control and banker accounts. SE can more quickly identify and remove those accounts.
RMT enforcement differs from game to game and operator to operator. It also differs based on the internal market conditions with each game. Comparisons with other games are not really like for like comparisons.
I am by no means saying that their approach is perfect, nor am I suggesting that more could not be done, for example, one-click/button spam reporting with automatic inclusion of the reported tell and user information, account based blacklist, not character based (this has other benefits, so should be a no brainer), regular expression filtering worth a damn, off-line log parsing to identify spambot accounts automatically. There are also innumerable suggestions about restricting tells/shouts/friends requests in some way (I don't favor these methods since the impact innocent players).
Stricter enforcement against players who participate in RMT, a visible indicator on the player search information to show that the parent account has been temp banned for cheating (including RMT activity) that goes away once the ban is served (would actually impose a lasting consequence on people that cheat. As an FC leader, I would immediately remove any FC member shown to have participated in RMT, it's already against our rules to participate in RMT or cheating of any kind. But it's kind of hard to catch someone who remains silent about it. A visible indicator on a suddenly absent player would enable me and other FC masters to take action - if they deem it appropriate.
That doesn't even include firing off legal action against the legal entities behind RMT in the real world (although this would be like fighting a Hydra while blindfolded), it might at least have a chilling effect on future RMT activity.
But the number one way to stop RMT activity is to stop players from buying crap from these people. While we are at it, let's stop calling it RMT or gil buying and call it what it is, cheating. The community has a part to play, if you know someone who buys gil, do you treat them with the scorn they deserve for contributing to the spamming of players?
I'm not saying SE is perfect, but let's at least give them the credit for what they do, and let's not push out any crazy theories or accusations, especially ones so easily debunked.
Yep, and you'll see an uptick in permanent account bans for RMT advertising and illicit/RMT activity, as well as temp band against players who were found to have participated in illicit/RMT activity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Granyala
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01-12-2016, 08:52 AMGunspecGo take a look at how much gil people are spending for mercenary runs. Examine these people who don't have crafting classes, people who haven't been playing the game long, and people who have no ability to legitimately acquire gil, and observe how they are spending 50-100 million gil a night on runs for thordin gear, ponies, raid clears, etc. Notice how the groups selling runs then can magically afford relic items that cost 8 million gil total, and how the crafters in these fcs can afford to blow millions of gil getting on precious crafting materia.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmos992k
Or just keep telling yourself that the devs are doing a good job fighting RMT, and that putting up with a hundred spam messages an hour is totally worth it. All I'm saying is the LEAST they can do is bite down on the spam.
RMT is out of control in this game, and SE's "special way" of dealing with it results in this being the ugliest RMT spam polluted major mmo on the market. -
01-12-2016, 06:25 PMFelisMateria melding have nothing to do with level up a DoH class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Granyala
just buy the needed items for the leves and GC from the MB, if crafting them yourself is too much for you.
Also, you can buy materias from the Diadem shop, if they are overprized in the MB. -
01-12-2016, 07:15 PMGranyalaYou don't craft do you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Felis
If you did you would realize that leveling a craft to 60 means jack shit. You won't be able to craft anything worthwhile, because everything even remotely interesting is locked behind star recipes that need MOAR STATS.
How do you get MOAR STATS? Dump millions of gil into the RNG slotmachine or spend weeks on the red script grind.
Leveling a craft to 60 is MAYBE 25% of the effort required to get ready to craft 2* patterns, and lets not even begin about chances of HQing them.