When are we getting these stats back?

http://www.gwcdn.com/albums/images/4...2b8800065a.jpg

^^^ Relic from 1.x.

Can we PLEASE have interesting stats again? It was said in an interview they would start introducing the stats in...have yet to see anything. :/

Also how we had damage, number of attacks and delays!

Probably never but hopefully soon. This could make gear sets more interesting if we had more to go on than simply item level

I think the dev teams heads will explode trying to itemize the game with stuff with more stats. They can't even manage to itemize the game correctly under the current dead simple stat system.

I mean Vit and Parry are useless and the only reason you go for a secondary stat other than crit is because that isn't what is on the item shows they really have no idea what they are doing as it stands.

You know, in the end, total DPS is still just a number. It doesn't matter how fancy your stats get. If you start getting into /random procs you start entering Shield Blocking territory where, its nice if they happen, but they just can't be relied on and are thus ignored when raiding. It may not be as flashy or exciting but our current system just doesn't mesh well with this idea when weapons are replaced every single ilvl.

And building on what Galactimus said, if you are adding stats like "refresh", "conserve tp", "bonus enmity", etc, you're just creating the same situation you already have with accuracy.

You would start having the game designed so that a bare minimum of each stat is expected for a given class to perform adequately, but the stat is weighted so that you never really feel as if having an excess amount is helping you. It would likely turn into a penalty for any player who doesn't have a wide variety of gear options to choose from (tomes vs raid vs crafted gear, few players really have access to all 3), as those players would either be stuck below or above caps.

I can just imagine the tank who can't hold threat in dungeons due to not having enough +enmity, while another dungeon run would feature a tank who does no damage because he's weighted too far in the +enmity +mp regen stats. Then you'd have a fight between dps who don't want to waste stat allocation on -enmity stats, but the tanks want to do more damage and refuse to equip +enmity.

Yeah, let's pass on these stats.

Stats in 1.0 were definitely interesting. Sadly the systems they implemented destroyed their ambitions of making competent raid rewards for gear.

I don't ever remember seeing a whm in 1.0 who didn't have the regen enhancement boots. Because even though the raid gear stats were more impressive, that artifact armor was OP. Same with 1.0's material system, it was more punishing than the current system with one bad meld meant destroying the entire piece, but quad melded STR meant your damage was amazing!

If they allow you to customize the stats and force enhancements on gear than that would be cool, all kinds of working variants but I digress. 1.0 was fun but they did fix their mistakes in regards to the gearing system. Sadly they have all too often said that they want "anybody" to play this game.

Those stats are interesting? Merely having more stats doesn't make them interesting. If they don't actually change how you play your class their addition only winds up adding unnecessary complexity for the sake of it. It's pointless stat bloat.

We also already have most of those stats. They're just named differently or baked into something else.

The OP image is missing some additional effects on the weapons as well as context. As I recall, Curtana was the only sword with +HP on it, restored MP on attacking sometimes, and increased the damage of Spirits Within. Bravura reduced the cooldown on Vengeance (I think), Gae Bolg increased Jump damage, etc.

You don't have to have unique stats to have a unique item. They could throw like 500 spell speed on a paladin or dark knight sword, for example, if they wanted to enhance flash/clemency/unleash. They could put a ton of INT on a healer weapon to let them use some nukes outside of Cleric Stance. Unfortunately, we have so few relevant stats for each class that making a unique item with them is very hard. I think regardless of whether they're unique or not, we do need more stats with more effects. Right now gear is a complete snoozefest.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

The OP image is missing some additional effects on the weapons as well as context.

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That's what I thought. I stopped playing 1.0 before they released the relics, but I thought I recalled them doing more than what the picture shows. My point still stands though: if the new stats aren't going to change how you play your class there's no real point in adding them.

I'll pass on the "Healing Magic Potency +15" on Curtana, thanks anyway.

Crossing my fingers for 3.2 materia change.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Crossing my fingers for 3.2 materia change.

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Same, hoping they put something interesting in 3.2 lol :D

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

And ..snip.

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They also read like they were lifted off of XI in the sense of Paladin being able to self cure, magic ckills, etc... Possibly how the jobs were originally constructed. I rather not get back into skill leveling territory. Although I do see conserve MP as a possible job trait

Building on to this, they should add minor procs to our relic, something that is nice to have but wouldn't be overpowered or break the game.
This way they could still keep their word of having current raid drop ilvl+5 weapons above our relics (so as to keep raid scene active).

Note: Current raid weapons must do more damage than relic because it makes sense.

Our relics however would have a nice proc element to it - has to have a class specific coolness to it (this game desperately need some customization).

I'm using WoW as a reference here, not as a direct apple to apple comparison, but it was these trinket procs that really bring interesting perspective to the combat system (lightning capicitor, anyone?)

For example, think of something along the lines of:

Adding to combat damage or defense:
5% chance of of attacking proccing a chain lightning of 50 potency to nearby enemies. (something like Thunderfury)
5% chance of increasing defense by 5% for 5 secs.
5% chance of regaining MP by 5% (60secs cooldown)
5% chance of block or dodge to proc a shadow that will take 5% of the damage done (limit 2).
5% chance to proc an aura that gives haste of 5% by 5secs.

Visual / aesthetic:
5% chance of attacking to have your weapon switch image with another weapon in your inventory for 10secs (DRK).
5% chance to imbue relic with flashy ice or fire glow when casting appropriate magic (BLM) for 10secs.
5% chance to add more spikes to your dragoon armor. (LOLDRG).
5% chance to turn into Mike Tyson for 10secs (MNK).
5% chance to grow another feather on your armor for 10secs (PLD).
5% chance to have your globe turn into the sun or moon for 10secs (AST).

Again, it doesn't have to be overpowered or game breaking, just something different.
I'm of the opinion that relic weapons should be something cool. Not just a placeholder 'stat stick' until the next patch that it becomes irrelevant as compared to the newly released weapon.

Personally, I really prefer the visual / aesthetic part. It's a relic for crying out loud.

That makes it "on par", sort of with new raid weapons and we don't have to go stress about this topic every single time.
Also makes relic a fun thing to have cause it's cool yo.

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Originally Posted by Kotemon

They also read like they were lifted off of XI in the sense of Paladin being able to self cure, magic ckills, etc... Possibly how the jobs were originally constructed. I rather not get back into skill leveling territory. Although I do see conserve MP as a possible job trait

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Conserve MP done right by the devs could completely change the BLM meta in a good way, allowing for more options depending on the situation and battle, which is exactly what those of us who want more complex stats have been asking for. It would be one of the better stats to import over from XI.

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Originally Posted by Gunspec

And building on what Galactimus said, if you are adding stats like "refresh", "conserve tp", "bonus enmity", etc, you're just creating the same situation you already have with accuracy.

You would start having the game designed so that a bare minimum of each stat is expected for a given class to perform adequately, but the stat is weighted so that you never really feel as if having an excess amount is helping you. It would likely turn into a penalty for any player who doesn't have a wide variety of gear options to choose from (tomes vs raid vs crafted gear, few players really have access to all 3), as those players would either be stuck below or above caps.

I can just imagine the tank who can't hold threat in dungeons due to not having enough +enmity, while another dungeon run would feature a tank who does no damage because he's weighted too far in the +enmity +mp regen stats. Then you'd have a fight between dps who don't want to waste stat allocation on -enmity stats, but the tanks want to do more damage and refuse to equip +enmity.

Yeah, let's pass on these stats.

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Who's to say we wont keep our base stats for enmity and accuracy and just have the weapon stats for bonuses?? Its about player choices for customization, adding more variables to gameplay.

@Galactimus So I guess dps like Ninja, Machinists, Dark Knight and Astrologen shouldn't be in the game as its just a new role doing the same thing? No, personalization and choices. Why can't people see this??

It would be nice to see a change to add more diversity to stats and more interesting effects. Im not sure if I like these particular ones and there are traps that can be fallen into you want to avoid but it would make gear more interesting.

I would say however that anyone expecting any major stat changes before 4.0 are being unrealistic. The effects such a change will have on balance aren't minor and integrating the testing of such a change into the rebalancing involved in a lvl rise is far more reasonable. Even WoW doesn't have overhauls to their base systems mid expansion though they tend to completely over haul them very expansion.

If you want to see a database of all the old 1.0 items you can check them out @ http://ffxiv.mozk-tabetai.com/

they have all the old materia as well. You will see that a lot of old stats were removed.

It will all eventually come down to one set in the end, personally I would love to see changing gear in combat again.

Vit sets, ability CD sets blah blah blah.

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Originally Posted by Stupiduglytaru

It will all eventually come down to one set in the end, personally I would love to see changing gear in combat again.

Vit sets, ability CD sets blah blah blah.

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Oh hell no. That sounds like a nightmare. One set per Job does me just fine thankyou.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Crossing my fingers for 3.2 materia change.

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Even with the materia change, that's not reinventing the wheel, just utilizing the damn wheel they invented back in 2.x. It'd still just be numerical gains and doesn't change how your job plays.

Having non-numerical bonues on all equips (not exclusive to weapons) would do a lot more to make a job feel empowered with each upgrade or gear milestone, compared to what we have now

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Originally Posted by Stupiduglytaru

It will all eventually come down to one set in the end, personally I would love to see changing gear in combat again.

Vit sets, ability CD sets blah blah blah.

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The current armory setup doesn't really allow for more than one sets per job. Even if people are still going to min/max (and they do it anyway with numbers that are theoritical in value and still don't lend to gameplay changes), the option is still there for people who want horizontal progression or otherwise change up their game.

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Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer

Conserve MP done right by the devs could completely change the BLM meta in a good way, allowing for more options depending on the situation and battle, which is exactly what those of us who want more complex stats have been asking for. It would be one of the better stats to import over from XI.

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XI Conserve MP wouldn't work for BLM in XIV, especially with Enochain. A random chance at a random reduction in MP cost isn't that great when you have an unlimited MP pool and a strict timer to get into UI.

That (and the huge nerf to Piety in HW) took away one of the few job customizations out of the game, the Piety BLM.

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Even with the materia change, that's not reinventing the wheel, just utilizing the damn wheel they invented back in 2.x. It'd still just be numerical gains and doesn't change how your job plays.

Having non-numerical bonues on all equips (not exclusive to weapons) would do a lot more to make a job feel empowered with each upgrade or gear milestone, compared to what we have now

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We don't know how exactly their changing materia and neither do we know if it'll just be numeral stats. The materia actually has full opportunities to change the way we build armor sets.

OP doesn't even show the unique abilities that each Relic had...Stardust Rod boosted Flare damage, and Gae Bolg enhanced Jump damage, for instance.

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

OP doesn't even show the unique abilities that each Relic had...Stardust Rod boosted Flare damage, and Gae Bolg enhanced Jump damage, for instance.

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Yup!

Here is a quick look at what some of the old stats on the weapons looked like.
Some of the weapons were double edged swords such as the Aubriest's Whisper.
It gave -20 Acc but a +120 to critical hit rate.

Some stats such as Spell interruption resistance would be an extremely useful stat to have in 2.0 pvp zones as a black mage its a shame it was removed.

http://puu.sh/mje6g/4f116fe860.png



http://puu.sh/mjemZ/14c4f36ee5.png

http://puu.sh/mjeBZ/8923ca3942.png

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Originally Posted by Kurogaea

Who's to say we wont keep our base stats for enmity and accuracy and just have the weapon stats for bonuses??

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You think they aren't going to consider the stat values players "should" have when designing raid content? I mentioned accuracy because it is a boring stat that we already have which functions this way.

They aren't just going to add new stats without balancing encounters and player skills around them. If they add "tp conserve" stats, you're going to see abilities start having higher TP costs OR a lower TP regeneration with the assumption that players will acquire X amount of the new stat to compensate, while diminishing returns will prevent the "tp conserve" stat from being a useful addition, even if you stack it on all of your gear.

Basically, with stats, you had a lot of them in old games because the complexity of the game was extremely limited in the CONTROL department. Diablo-esque games consisted of walking up to an enemy and slamming your attacks, while JRPGs were usually turn based and involved picking a spell or ability to match enemy weaknesses. The complexity was in the stats and elemental bonuses, because they couldn't make the fights complex otherwise given the tech limitations.

Even looking at an mmo from 7 or 8 years ago (when tons of stats on gear was popular) the mechanics of the average fight were a joke compared to the bosses we get in FFXIV. They've moved the complexity of the game from passive mechanics (do you have enough fire resistance?) to active (are you picking up the hp damaging orbs while protecting healers from adds while avoiding boss aoe while doing enough damage to prevent a wipe when the boss transitions to the next stage).

I'm much more interested in the types of tools I'll be given by a new ability, than by what minor "enhancement" is on my gear, especially when that enhancement is just one more thing that needs to be at "cap" to be effective.

I desperately want more stat variety. I don't know that we'll ever get items more in the vein of FFXI's (like the items in 1.0), but at the very least I would like to see them add a couple more statistics for gear. Healers already have a 4th stat to think about in Piety, and I'd like every role to have another one to think about, ideally. Buff Parry in some way for tanks (add a counter effect to it or something, so it's not always inferior DPS stats, at least) to give them a fourth stat option. Accuracy could be giving some sort of additional function, as well, for DPS classes (though I'd prefer an entirely different stat—I'm just not sure what would be a good one at the moment).

Some sort of "Mastery" stat like WoW added would also be welcome, which would have a unique effect for each class (scaling appropriately, of course). NIN mastery might increase Ninjutsu damage by some amount, while PLD mastery could perhaps increase block amounts in Shield Oath (but increase auto attack potency in Sword Oath). Those are just off-the-cuff examples, of course.

But gearing is ultimately too simple in this game for my tastes. Most classes only worry about 3 stats, when you get down to it, with two of them being desirable and the other being generally unwanted. With a couple more stats in the mix, gear could have more varied combinations of stats, and potentially allow for the Crit > Det > Speed paradigm to vary somewhat more between classes (I know BLM's preferences are different, of course, but they're one of the few examples of that now).

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Originally Posted by Iromi

Also how we had damage, number of attacks and delays!

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Numbers of attacks only existed because PGL weapon did (as an example) 2*50 dmg instead of 1*100 dmg. It gave the class the feeling of fast hits.

Remember when Relic gear had stats like that? Like if you wore the Healer's body it gave you increased regen potency? I thought stuff like that was pretty unique.

Old materia table from 1.x

http://www.mystina.ffxivmaps.com/Mat...28v2.11%29.png

A least the double stat materias (like Ironman's materia Str & Vit) can the devs bring back, imo

Which of these stats are interesting?

We already have potency/critical rating.

Determination is Potency.
Critical Rating is Critical Rating.
Accuracy is accuracy.

I see nothing but boring stats on this, honestly.

Where is...

Critical Chance % (You critical X% more times.)
Critical Bonus % (Criticals do X% more damage.)
Double Attack % (Allows your auto-attack to strike the target twice times.)
AOE Autoattack % (Allows your auto-attack to hit multiple targets.)
Ability Modifier+ (Raises damage of spells.)
DPS+ (Raises damage of weapon's autoattack.)
Attack Speed+ (Raises attack speed of weapon's autoattack.)

Ect ect

You completely ignored the stats on weapons with Critical Hit Potency, Additional Elemental Damage, etc.

DPS+? You Mean damage? Or literally any stat that isn't say, weaponskill damage?

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Originally Posted by Nektulos-Tuor

Ability Modifier+ (Raises damage of spells.)

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Hell's Fist: Atk Mag

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Double Attack % (Allows your auto-attack to strike the target twice times.)

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No auto-attack during first year of 1.0
Some weapon types did double hits, like PGL weapons

While it would take some intelligent itemization, I'd also love to see equipment that modifies specific abilities again too, as others have mentioned. This could be an interesting way to make pieces with less desirable stats (Speed for most classes, or Determination for BLM) more interesting. As a physical DPS, would you consider a Det/Speed piece over a Crit/Det one if the former improved an ability you use frequently (such as reducing the cooldown on Jump for DRG)?

While the answers would inevitably be mathed out for every particular piece, it would still add some much needed depth to the game's gearing.

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Originally Posted by Felis

Old materia table from 1.x

http://www.mystina.ffxivmaps.com/Mat...28v2.11%29.png

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Man, that's like walking into Baskin Robins 31 flavors, and seeing strawberry, vanilla, chocolate, and 28 flavors of fish and meat flavored ice cream. Gimme a double scoop of enmity down and slow resistance please!