Hello Guys,
i've been playing SCH for a while now and wanted to discuss the BIS of the SCH with you guys, especially in consideration of accuracy, which been a headache for alot of us, especially under combination of draconian potion and a missed misma, which is not bane-able :rolleyes:
I'll post my opinion here, might be a bit biased, they do not include diadem options, since we all know how rng is. Second option is the imo next best, obtainable item for most of us, since not everyone can kill a3s a4s.
Secondary Statorder:
ACC>CRIT>DET>PIE>SS
Accuracycap in Alexander Savage for Caster:
1.Floor 495
2.Floor 520
3.Floor 530
4.Floor 540
Link to Ariyala: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/SC8L
Weapon:
1.Tetrabiblios aka Relic weapon - Crit+Pie
2. Codex of the Heaven aka Thordan EX - Det+Pie
Head:
1. Savants Top Head - Crit+Pie
2. Void Arc Hat of Healing - Crit+Det
Body:
1. Savants Overcoat - Det+Pie
2. Astral Silk Doublet of Healing - Crit+Pie
[ACC V+ACC V+ACC IV+ACC IV+ACC IV]
Gloves:
1. Gordian Gloves of Healing - Crit+Pie
2. Savants Aethercell Gloves - Det+Pie
Belt:
1. Gordian Belt of Healing - Crit+Pie
2. Voidarc Belt of Healing - Crit+Pie
3. Griffin Leather Corset of Healing - Crit+SS
[ACC V+ACC IV+ACC IV+DET IV+DET IV]
Trousers:
1. Gordian Brayettes of Healing - Crit+Pie
2. Voidarc Breeches of Healing - Crit+Pie
Feet:
1. Griffin Leather Boots of Healing - Crit+Det
2. Savants Boots - Crit+SS
3. Gordian Gambieras of Healing - Det+Pie
Necklace:
1. Citrine Choker of Healing - Crit+Det
[ACC IV+ACC IV+ACC III+CRIT IV+CRIT IV]
2. Fabled Necklace of Healing - Crit+SS
Earring:
1. Gordian Earrings of Healing - Crit+SS
2. Chrysolite Earrings of Healing - SS+Pie
[ACC IV+ACC IV+ACC III+CRIT IV+CRIT IV]
Bracelet:
1. Fabled Bracelet of Healing - Crit+Pie
2. Chrysolite Bracelet of Healing - Det+SS
Rings:
1. Gordian Ring of Healing - Crit+Pie
2. Chrysolite Ring of Healing - Det+Pie
[ACC IV+ACC IV+ACC III+CRIT IV+CRIT IV]
[ACC IV+ACC IV+CRIT IV+CRIT IV+CRIT III]
[ACC IV+ACC IV+VIT IV+VIT IV+VIT IV]
Explanation:
There might be already one or two things you cannot agree with, but first let me explain the general idea. In order to get accuracy you need crafted gear, which on the other hand mean you lose alot of mainstats and potentially HP/Defense. So if you have to decide, what you going to sacrifice in order to get the necessary accuracy, you'll sacrifice the right side, aka your accessoiries, since vitality and defense will stay untouched. Even if you use the right side full of melded accuracy, you'll NOT hit the cap, which means additionally to hit the accuracycap of 540 in a4s you need to replace the left side, following options are possible:
1. Shoes
Loss of 27/48 Defense, 14 MND, 16 VIT
Potential 42 ACC
2. Belt
Loss of 24/42 Defense, 11 MND, 12 VIT
Potential 32 ACC
3. Body
Loss of 38/67 Defense, 23 MND, 26 VIT
Potential 69 ACC, realistic 51 ACC
Shoes are superior because you lose 58 SS for 40 DET, and have exactly the ACC-cap for a4s with bufffood(urchin loaf) and right side fully melded. Belt is the next viable Option, however belt alone will not provide enough for the cap. Body is a insane loss of stats and you cannot use all the potential accuracy. Which means the clear winner are the shoes if you plan to get accuracy.
But what if you dont do alexander savage? Then accuracy sacrifices can be made in following order:
1. Urchin loaf>Baked Pipira Pira
2. Chrysolite Earring of Healing > Gordian Earrings of Healing
3. Chrysolite Bracelet of Healing > Fabled Cracelet of Healing
4. Chrysolite Ring of Healing > Gordian Ring of Healing
I recommend to stop here, since it gives you the most balanced Stats while having a very high amount of crit.
Ariyala Link: http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/SC8X
However if you still going further down, and aim for ilvl 210, it'll look like this, even though i don't recommend taking the 210 eso ring.
http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/SC8Y
In short:
A4S Setup - http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/SC8L
Balanced Setup - http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/SC8X
iLvl 210 Setup - http://ffxiv.ariyala.com/SC8Y
I hope i can get some feedback and discussion how you view some BIS-items.
Cheers,
Maria Nyan
BIS SCH - ACC Drama and my POV
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12-31-2015, 01:09 PMMariaNyanBIS SCH - ACC Drama and my POV
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12-31-2015, 11:41 PMLyrica_Ashtine
As much as I understand the whole accuracy issue with healer DPS, you're missing out on 94 mind with just the first ariyala link. That effectively a reduced healing/damage output of 8.8% (or 9.12% you'll miss out) with each spell you cast and the added accuracy doesn't benefit the entire kit. I took a player at rank 100 on fflogs and he has done:
Broil 31 casts, 6 misses
Energy drain 23 casts, 4 misses
Miasma 18 casts, 2 misses
Aero 17 casts, 4 misses
Ruin II 5 casts, 2 misses
Combined potency missed: 3,180
Total combined potency hit with Bio/Bio II/Shadow flare: 27,730
Total potency lost to lack of accuracy: 11.5%
You do gain a slight damage increase by trading in accuracy for mind: 2900 potency if you assume the spells are 8.8% weaker. But if you consider the amount of healing done, which is:
Physick 11,600 potency
Adloquium 10,200 potency
Lustrate 3,000 potency
Succor ??? potency
Embrace 53,100 potency
Total combined: 24,800 from the Scholar itself, excluding Succor and 53,100 from the fairy
Corrected for the accuracy/mind trade: 22,618 potency from the scholar, 48,427 from the fairy
From just the Scholar that's 2182 potency missing. Throw in the fairy that's 4673 potency. Combined that's 13-14 Physicks or 8-9 Adloquiums. If we assume napkin theory conclusions, that's 8-14 GCD worth of healing that has to be compensated "somewhere". Very likely from the other healer. With an 8.8% output loss, is the investment in gear in favor for accuracy really worth the minor increase in damage? I'm going to cut the whole story short and end it here and let the you/someone else draw wild conclusions. -
01-01-2016, 12:01 AMMariaNyan
There are a few issues that are namely only from accuracy, which can impact your gameplay:
1. Energy drain - loss of 900mp each, in total on your example 3.5k, 3.6k mana
2. Miasma and aero misses, each miss constitues a recast which is on the level of a broil, if not higher loss of damage. basically every miss is a broil.
3. Usage of Pot and opener, dots have the nature of snapshot, so missing a dot during the opener/trickattack/battlelitany etc. will cost you alot more, if not preventing you from baning.
Accuracy to get a4s is luxury and most likely not relevant for most people. If your job is dedicated damage, which also means less healing needs to be done(damage=migration), then i would considering accuracy as better choice, for progression however its questionable. For any other content that doesn't need accuracy, theres a BIS, whoever im still not sure what the accuracy cap for thordan EX is, i assume its around 450? -
01-01-2016, 12:34 AMLyrica_Ashtine
Well, whatever you gain from accuracy has two sides of the coin
Let's assume you're still doing your share of the healing without burdening the potency lost on your healing output on the other healer. This would mean:Quote:
Originally Posted by MariaNyan
5746-6188 MP extra spend on Physick
Or
8480-9540 MP extra spend on Adloquium
Or
8-10 more stacks spend on Lustrates
Or
A mix of above
Also: 1 Energy drain is 884 MP, not 900.
If we were to assume the data from that rank 100 player I used earlier as a base line, you'd make 14 GCDs count, but with the strength of 12.8 GCDs if you were full mind instead. So in terms of GCD, you only gain 6-7 GCDs worth of damage while you lose more on the healing end.Quote:
Originally Posted by MariaNyan
The effective increase is rather minor as well. Even if you assume you can actually benefit from Trick Attack and Battle Litany before your first spell goes out as you use a potion:Quote:
Originally Posted by MariaNyan
3 Energy drain: 450 potency. Fully buffed: 585.3 potency
1 Bio II: 350 potency. Fully buffed: 455.3 potency
1 Bio: 240 potency. Fully buffed: 312.2 potency
1 Miasma: 300 potency. Fully buffed: 390.2 potency
1 Shadow flare: 250 potency. Fully buffed: 325.2 potency
2 Broils: 340 potency. Potion+BL: 402.1 potency
Combined: 2470.3 potency
Regular i210 gear and assuming 80% hit rate on spells that can actually miss: 2194.8 potency on average
Accuracy melded gear and assuming 100% hit rate and at -8.8% strength: 2252.9 potency on average
Total potency gain: 58.1 potency on average
The average gain isn't even worth a Ruin.
This seems to be a common misconception about the Scholar's role in general. The scholar has the ability to make everything easier for the entire group: DPS checks and (e)HP checks. This makes Scholars extremely popular. But it's not your job to make the other healer's job a nightmare, while you hog all the glory by showing off the damage you can do with virtually no healing output. There's also a HPS check involved, although this isn't as strict as the DPS/(e)HP checks in general, it's still there. It fluctuates every second of the fight. While it is very possible to make it work out for the other healer to manage with just the fairy, it also means a lot of MP is being used. If this leads to longer Ballad/Promotion from the Bard/Machinist, whatever you gained in damage (and also lost in healing) is lost on the bard/machinist.Quote:
Originally Posted by MariaNyan
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01-01-2016, 02:17 AMKaishaWhile the odd miss is annoying, I've yet to be negatively affected by this during progression in A4S despite Whirbelwind's dropping me to 0mp multiple times, requiring holding onto Aether/Shroud.Quote:
Originally Posted by MariaNyan
It's only a misconception when you apply that logic outside of raiding. You can thank the DPS checks in A3S/A4S making combined tank+healer DPS contribution a heavy influence on you clearing before enrage or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine
As for stuff like Thordan, it's negligible unless you're in a group of complete beginners who can't do simple dps rotations to where your contribution as a SCH would make or break that extremely lenient enrage check, but in that situation it'd just be better to let the DPS get more experienced with the encounter. -
01-01-2016, 04:57 AMLyrica_AshtineI did include that the dps checks get eased up as well. In raid environment both healers will be (trying) to push as much damage as possible. It isn't a position monopolized by scholar - which is also often neglected everywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisha
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01-01-2016, 11:26 AMSunako
After 3.2 you have no accuracy problems once you can meld your gear full of accuracy.
"Materia system changes
As mentioned earlier, the materia system will be changed. From Patch 3.2 equipment purchased with tomestones will include materia slots." -
01-02-2016, 03:52 AMMariaNyan
@Lyrica
1. Additional mana means you can replace physicks with the more powerful adlo, also it leaves you more room for errors, for example a resurrection/resummon fairy. Missing an energydrain or two during a4s is going to be really bad for progression, for kill if you're experienced it might be a different case.
2. Burdening the Healer means that your heals are necessary and getting their full value. However, due to the nature of stacking crit and shielding, your heals going to suffer from overheal and critoverheal, which means the actual heal that is going from you is a tad less. Also this includes that you don't overheal at all, given that a sch normally overheal for around 20-30% and the whm too, the actual healoutput is around 5% less compared to a full mind set, which will most likely not break the hps requirement. I also have yet to encounter a problem where someone dies because a physick/adlo/succor didnt heal enough (which is in terms of hp around 200?).
3. The opener includes also aero, which has a tad higher potency than broil, and that is assuming averaging out, however if since rng is rng, it also means you can completly miss every skill which might be the worst run for you, but the better run for your DDs. You don't want to wipe because of rng, even if it means average runs are slightly better. The worst case scenario is way worse than the best case scenario, even though the average is slightly better.
4. I think the misconception is that SCH is a DD is existing only inside a3s and a4s, where the time you spent dpsing is way larger than the time spent on healing. Also notice, that outside of a3s a4s accuracy caps are much lower or aren't even needed, nor are the better heals. Imo if you spent more time dpsing than healing, you should opt for dpsing, which is basically the accuracy and every problem that comes with it.
5. BIS are for the current content at the current time. There's also the point that the new raid have probably acc-requirements and you have to clear them first to get meldable items, however this is a totally different issue.
I really wonder how accuracy scales and if its worth to, lets say just replace shoes or just a necklace for higher chances? -
01-02-2016, 04:09 AMLyrica_AshtineI'm not even going to bother the rest. You don't seem to understand that whatever MP you gained from the extra energy drain hits isn't more than the amount of MP extra spend if you have to patch up on your own share of healing.Quote:
Originally Posted by MariaNyan
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01-02-2016, 06:04 AMMariaNyannot healing enough is not an issue of potency nor certian healvalues, but of gcds. you never wipe because your adlo/succor didnt heal enough, you more likely die if you missed one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine
Given fflogs and the posts above you don't seem to appreciate the healerdps nor seem to care about overheal 20-30%, but if you don't want to discuss that its alright.
The thread is mainly about BIS for a4s and other content, not healing enough is an issue about the player, not the gear itself. -
01-03-2016, 01:12 AMLegoTechnic
As a SCH who can clear a4s I want to come out and say this is just not worth the trouble, but... You know, I really REALLY hate it when Energy Drain misses. It's infuriating, especially when I'm trying to sneak it in after a whirblewind.
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01-03-2016, 03:25 AMLyrica_AshtineYou still don't get it. That healer healed at certain points for a reason and were actually effective. Otherwise it would have been 100% overheal.Quote:
Originally Posted by MariaNyan
If we were to forget about Scholar healing completely and just assume just the Fairy's 53,100 potency, that's 4672 potency "missing" what the other healer would have been used to. Even if you assume that 3 embraces is good for 2 Cures/Physicks/Benefics, that's still 7-8 GCDs worth that you're stealing away from the other healer. In case of White Mage, that's 1400-1680 potency worth of Stone III/Malefic II or more if those were DoTs. When they're not spend on damage spells instead, but on healing, that's up to 3536 MP more spend by the other healer if you just assume Cure/Benefic/Physick or more if bigger spells are to be used. The only thing accuracy sets do would improve the impression others have of you, only because you seem to do slightly more damage. At the same time you're like a parasite to the other healer. And to an extend to bards/machinists as well. -
01-03-2016, 06:12 AMMariaNyanhttps://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images.../mC7cTyN3.jpegQuote:
Originally Posted by LegoTechnic
The point you trying to prove is that the eHps has to be full-filled, which is true, however it doesn't mean that the SCH in your example did the necessary heals.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyrica_Ashtine
Checking FFlogs it shows that the eHps is between 3300-3500, going as low as 2900, showing that the necessary heals that needs to be done can vastly be different.
The SCH eHps is normally around 1400 (50%). The WHM eHps is around 1800(50%), going as high as 2400. A 8.8% of Mnd decrease would mean a potency loss of 100-150 eHps. Both eHps can go up by 500 up to 1000 from both healers, making a 100-150 eHps change highly possible without sacrifices from only the whmside.
Also you don't seem to understand that in a4s the whole fight is a dpscheck. If changing accuracy makes your party fail, then your whm has to get gud, contributing dps to the fight is your priority in this fight, making only necessary heals when your co-healer cant handle it alone.