It might already be too late to make the world have a sense of life because of the map markers during quests. They essentially make every line of dialogue useless to read.
I shouldn't feel like I'm doing a leve during a quest but I do except it's a leve where killing the same mobs as leves doesn't give me any SP.
Fun huh?
Stop Hand-Holding me!
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03-13-2011, 01:41 AMSeifStop Hand-Holding me!
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03-13-2011, 01:58 AMAbriael
If they removed map markers, the world will die with the scream of the "new generation" whining about the lack of a feature "standard in MMORPGs".
Not that they bother me. I'm not forced to click on "map" in the first place. But if markers that you have to go look for intentionally (and that you can avoid) bother you, I don't know what you'll do when they'll implement automatic markers in the minimap. And we both know they will, sooner or later. -
03-13-2011, 02:11 AMJakeRoon
A feature to turn them off would be nice.....that's what I don't get about all this arguing, the devs can just add all the features and add options for each player to turn them on or off.
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03-13-2011, 02:12 AMAbriaelMaking every feature a toggle would add to development times and create an humongous options screen that most new players would find daunting. Developers need to draw the line somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeRoon
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03-13-2011, 02:16 AMJakeRoon
clearly you have never played anarchy online......
and just so everyone is clear,
you just made an argument saying options were bad.....
OMG NOT OPTIONS!!!! -
03-13-2011, 02:28 AMKilta_Firelotus
with all the toggle ppl want it would be intimidating for mmo newbies.
Idm quest markers much. They help in making it less time consuming.
Remember ffxiv is suppose to have stuff that is less time consuming and user friendly.
Do you want to sit and teach ppl the toggle screen? Plus add the fact options take up space on the hdd. Also makes the game file larger and no one wants to wait 10+ hours downloading a game. -
03-13-2011, 02:42 AMAbriaelSomeone loves elaborating on what other people said a tad too much.Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeRoon
Options are not bad. A whole big menu full of 100 options is not exactly user friendly.
Anarchy online is and has always been an extremely niche game (not to mention a commercial failure). True that FFXIV isn't exactly a success at the moment, but I definitely wouldn't use AO as an example on how to improve any other game. -
03-13-2011, 02:49 AMLahru_HukurouYou played Anarchy Online?! Glad to actually find someone that plays this game and has played AO as well. They had tons of options on AO, I rather enjoyed that game. It had tons of tutorials from what I remember and you could turn it all off if you wanted to. You could make that game as just as hard as you wanted to. Would be nice if they learned a few things from AO.Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeRoon
I really think they need to implement options for a number of different features they have in this game. If you can do it in an older game like AO, not to mention other games, then it shouldn't be a problem in FFXIV. I know that it will take a bit more time, but like I said, I don't see why we can't have options about certain issues. -
03-13-2011, 02:49 AMsolrachtI hope you didn't play FFXI, because If you ever looked up what to do in a quest on the wiki, if you ever looked up where to flag a quest on the wiki, or ever used a pair of coordinates from the wiki to complete anything in FFXI, complaining about this would make you a hypocrite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seif
How is following the ingame journal different than following the out-of-game walkthrough?
Hint: you have the option to ignore both, and ignoring either you'll be at a disadvantage compared to the people who don't. What has changed, exactly? -
03-13-2011, 02:51 AMLahru_HukurouLol, so true ^__^Quote:
Originally Posted by solracht
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03-13-2011, 02:57 AMDoho
stop hand-holding me. sounds like my first girlfriend ;___;
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03-13-2011, 02:58 AMJakeRoonQuote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
the "free play" program, started in 2004, has had the most significant effect on subscriptions to date. ”More than 400,000 new players" signed up for free subscriptions in the program's first ten months according to Funcom CEO Trond Arne Aas.[78] The next year, the number of free subscriptions created, independent of paid subscriptions, was stated as one million.[54] The income from the program—which had generated $1,000,000 by its second year—supplements revenue from paid accounts.[77][79]
Funcom attributed "higher than expected" company profits in 2006 to Lost Eden's release in December of that year.[79][80] Subscription revenue during this time was described as "steady" and "profitable". Subscription revenue remained "steady" for the next three years, until 2009 when they were described as "slowly declining".[81][82] It was stated that close to two million subscriptions, both free and paid, had been created by July 2008.[24]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy_Online (read the citations if you must)
For a commercial failure it sure seems to be making a lot of money OH and look at that it had over twice as many subscriber than FFxi........
I really wish you guys would stop talking out your @$$3$ before you make statements like this. It just drives home the point of how disconnected to the whole mmo gaming genre you really are.
OH Lahru_Hukurou!!!! wuv you baby! we'll have to go blitz some missions some time! -
03-13-2011, 02:59 AMAlexiaKiddExactly the quests in FFXI were very vague about what you had to do, if it wasn't for wiki I would never have been able to do half of them thats for sure. Sometime I would read the quest up on wiki and think, how the hell did someone figure this out from the info you are given in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by solracht
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03-13-2011, 03:05 AMKurokikaze
lol seriously... I'm 99% certain that the OP used wikis to find information on quests while playing FFXI. This thread is hypocritical.
What I see is complain over change more than anything. -
03-13-2011, 03:08 AMviion^ this = truthQuote:
Originally Posted by Kurokikaze
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03-13-2011, 03:14 AMAbriaelPerfect way to say absolutely nothing. Notice how they don't split between paid and free subscribers in their numbers (which, for the ones even slightly versed in understanding marketing jibberjabber, means that the paid subscriber numbers aren't at all impressive. If they were, they would be spelled out).Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeRoon
I'm a "subscriber" too. Too bad I didn't play for years, like a very large percentage of those "subscribers".
While the term "subscriber" is often used to trick the uninitiated in thinking that the relevant numbers are much higher than they are, unfortunately for Funcom a "subscriber" is a whole different animal than an "active user"
You mean that in several years of operation it accumulated twice as many free "subscribers" (which again, is very different from "active users"), than FFXIV in 5 months? Yeah, big discovery there.Quote:
For a commercial failure it sure seems to be making a lot of money OH and look at that it had over twice as many subscriber than FFxi........
The only sign of disconnection is believing that one million dollars in revenue for a MMORPG is any sign of "success". In scale with the market, it's a pittance.Quote:
I really wish you guys would stop talking out your @$$3$ before you make statements like this. It just drives home the point of how disconnected to the whole mmo gaming genre you really are.
Same can be said as considering numbers expressed in "subscribers" (that can very easily be people that subscribed years ago, and now don't even remember the game, or people that "subscribed" to try the game, and then uninstalled it after five minutes) anywhere impressive or relevant to the success of a F2P MMORPG.
If the numbers of "subscribers" was anywhere relevant, FFXIV would be a critical success by now. -
03-13-2011, 03:16 AMJakeRoon
{sniff sniff} I smell the post of someone who is vainly trying to back up the fact he was talking out his @$$.....
I'll spell it out for you.
You said they were a commercial failure.....they clearly stated they were making a profit.....
also just so happens...free or not.....more ppl played it than ffxi (tit for tat "subscriber for subscriber")....just sayin' it had more than twice as many in 2008 than FFxi ever did in it's entire history even at it's peak.
How does that smell? Smells like victory to me. I'll be off to the party now, feel free to post one more post so you can attempt to retain whatever dignity you have left after I just gutted yours from you....it'd the least I can allow you to do.
PS : don't take me too seriously, I hardly ever am. -
03-13-2011, 03:18 AMArturia
Map markers are simply a feature that remove the need to look quest information up online. Which I can safely say, the mass majority of us whom played 11... Did anyways.
This is a good feature to have in the game, and should not be removed. If the devs see enough dislike on the topic I'm sure they can add as others have suggested... a feature to toggle it off. It should be on by default for new players regardless. -
03-13-2011, 03:24 AMAbriaelLOL. You really mean to compare the number of subscribers of a free game with one that requires a monthly fee? Smells like panic to me :DQuote:
Originally Posted by JakeRoon
Mind you, you have no idea of how many "subscribers" FFXIV has and had, since Square Enix only ever released the numbers of active concurrent users.
Quite obviously those numbers weren't that impressive for Funcom, otherwise they would have released them, instead of talking about "subscribers".
I'll spell it out for you.
making "a profit" (and a very small one), is nowhere a sign of success for MMORPGs. if MMORPGs that "make a profit" were to be considered successful, critical failures like Warhammer Online, Age of Conan and Darkfall online would be a success. Companies don't invest years of development and resources to make a pittance in revenue.
Golden rule. if you know nothing about the market and marketing (or base what little you know on wikipedia lol), don't argue about it. You're well entitled to like a game, but basing some laughable concept of "success" on generic free subscriber numbers is laughable at best. -
03-13-2011, 03:33 AMWolfie
Yes ffxiv needs to be MORE user unfriendly. That way they can drop the user base down to 1000 players so they can cater to TRUE mmo connoisseurs and ff fans
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03-13-2011, 03:33 AMAbriaelFor sure you don't work in marketing. Otherwise you'd know some of the basic rules that I had to spell for you (and for some reason, you still seem not to understand, denial much?) :DQuote:
Originally Posted by JakeRoon
Nope. I said that the game was a critical commercial failure, and I backed it up. You've simply been proven wrong.Quote:
Again you are backtracking.....you said the game was a commercial failur, you were wrong...
To be precise, your own data prove you wrong. As they are intentionally generic and show a true pittance in revenue, that's easily beaten by most of the other critical failures out there in the market.
Please, grow up. I understand that being proven wrong burns, but you're getting childish.Quote:
now....lick my boots clean, that's a good boy....
post one more time like a good boy. {pat pat}
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03-13-2011, 03:34 AMJakeRoonI'll let you know how it feels when and if I am proven wrong.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
but why don't you tell us how it feels right now?
Oh and just for fun.....
I am in charge of the furniture marketing at an Austin Officemax.....which is turning a 30% comp over last year...... very exciting! Come visit me, buy some stuff!
^^ -
03-13-2011, 03:36 AMKafeenHe didn't say options were bad, he said having too many options is bad. Giving someone too many options looks ugly, overwhelms many players and makes things that people might actually want to change harder to find, requiring either a big screen of text or icon or numerous menus that can be clumsy to navigate. Options for improving usability are a goof thing, overloading menus with too many is just making things worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeRoon
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03-13-2011, 03:38 AMJakeRoonI refer you to my previous decimating victory over the badly beaten opponent you are attempting to support.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafeen
Thank you drive through.
Also guys, You are still not taking this all seriously are you? -
03-13-2011, 03:39 AMJakeRoonPffffft epic awesome!!!!! I salute you sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
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03-13-2011, 03:42 AMAbriaelDon't need to, considering how you're acting, it's quite easy to notice that you know you've been proven wrong, and it infuriates you. Though luck Mr. Wikipedia. It's a good lesson learned on not overstepping the bounds of your experience :DQuote:
Originally Posted by JakeRoon
Your desperate attempts to climb up the chasm you threw yourself into are rather amusing, though.
yep, and I'm the queen of england :DQuote:
I am in charge of the furniture marketing at an Austin Officemax.....which is turning a 30% comp over last year...... very exciting! Come visit me, buy some stuff!
We're on the internet mate, everyone can be whatever he wants. This without even mentioning that if you think you know something about gaming-related marketing (and even more MMORPGs), by handling the "marketing" of a local franchise shop (lol), you're more delusive than you look.
Translated from the above:Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeRoon
"I win! because... I say so!" -
03-13-2011, 03:43 AMGhalith
I don't think I'd mind the "just look at the map" so much if I felt like the game was actually trying to kick my ass... it feels like it wants to me to succeed.
But I would like some more difficult quests where the quest giver doesn't know the EXACT coordinates of where I need to go... Something between XIV and XI... some of the quests in the latter were so directionless that you essentially had to go to the wiki. -
03-13-2011, 03:47 AMJakeRoon
I like my officemax......
and yeah....you totally got me figured out man....it's Soooo obvious....
Course I'd be willing to put my money where my mouth is on air on our podcast.....would you?
You've an open invite if you want it?
totally!Quote:
Originally Posted by Abriael
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03-13-2011, 03:50 AMAbriaelLike it matters? You should learn to read an entire post before responding.Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeRoon
Try the part that says "This without even mentioning that if you think you know something about gaming-related marketing (and even more MMORPGs), by handling the "marketing" of a local franchise shop (lol), you're more delusive than you look."
Come back when your local officemax makes you handle some international campaign. That'll be a little step nearer than the global marketing related to a MMORPG, which is a niche area of a niche market on a completely different scale.
Mind you, I understand how you feel. One WHOLE million in revenues must seem like an enormous amount for someone that handles a local store :D -
03-13-2011, 03:52 AMJakeRoon
So, you are afraid to put your money where your mouth is, that's what I am hearing?
I'm just a simple guy, I am not even sure how marketing has anything to do with the whole point! perhaps you should come on the show and enlighten me?
EDIT: btw what is it you do for a living? -
03-13-2011, 03:54 AMSHJcules
I hold XIVs soft and moisturized hands with pleasure. I don't miss the old FFXI days, where someone in the party had to have four internet tabs open to lead us around. I do read and enjoy the dialogue, but it still helps to have an exact itinerary.
But like the guy above me mentioned, it would be nice if sometime the NPC had no flippin clue what he needed, or where it was. You just go on your business and stumble on it two weeks later, like "oh shi-" -
03-13-2011, 04:04 AMAbriaelI don't need to go be a clown in a podcast. I'm already trying to enlighten you and be informative on the tricks used by company CEOs to try and give an impression of "success" to their products. Normally the harder they try, the more they have to hide.Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeRoon
And going around flaunting numbers "between paid and free subscribers" (which translates in "I can't really tell you the numbers of paid subscribers, because if I did you'd laugh in my face") and other exceptionally generic data (no clear indication if the amount of income for instance, replaced by "higher than expected") is the perfect indication of that.
Contrary to you. I don't feel the need to spell my resume on the internets. Let's just say I work in a field that has given me quite a bit of experience in the topic at hand. You probably should have noticed it by now.Quote:
EDIT: btw what is it you do for a living?
Oh, I forgot to mention. The "Big million" is revenues. Not income. Take operating expenses and taxes off that, and profit must be even more of a pittance. It's doubtless that FFXIV made several times that amount even just with box sales (and mind you, despite that, at the moment FFXIV is NOT a commercial success by any stretch of the imagination).
Again, you're very free to like AO, I personally didn't even dislike it. But between a niche-game being liked by an undisclosed amount of people and a commercial success there's an abyss of difference. -
03-13-2011, 04:06 AMJakeRoon
Sorry I didn't notice, because you seem to have a problem with math....and you're being so vague and elusive it makes your story sound pretty shady.
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03-13-2011, 04:08 AMAva
I wish "useless" was a good reason for reporting posts. Why are you guys crapping up this person's thread with your childish bickering? Who cares about some dead crappy game and who cares about marketing technicalities. This thread was made to point out how some people feel like they're having their hands held.
Me, personally, I don't feel that way at all. I never read quests for directions anyways I always read them for the lore. I like the markers and wish they would make them even more visible by putting them on the world map instead of journal maps. I think most people feel this way. -
03-13-2011, 04:09 AMAbriaelI'm being very specific in the information I present about the topic at hand. That should suffice to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeRoon
We're just discussing about the validity of using the "dead" (I wouldn't say crappy) game as a guide to improve this aspect of FFXIV. Which is at the very least related to the topic at hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ava
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03-13-2011, 04:21 AMJakeRoon
Yeah I agree with Abriael....omg.....[head-desk]
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03-13-2011, 05:16 AMLahru_Hukurou
Just because a game is dead or not doesn't mean that you can't use it as a guide. The whole argument about whether you can or not is just silly.
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03-13-2011, 05:24 AMAbriaelThe problem isn't that the game is dead. The problem is that the game was far from user friendly, and it failed commercially even for that reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lahru_Hukurou
FFXIV is risking as well, exactly for the same reason (between others), and the vast majority of people are demanding improvements in user-friendlyness. Using a game that wasn't exactly a champion of user-friendly approach as an example to improve a game that has the same flaw isn't exactly the best course of action. IMHO. -
03-13-2011, 05:32 AMLahru_Hukurou
My point about using AO as an example was about all the options it had. Yeah, it had a steep learning curve, can't deny that. Just saying that I like that it had a lot of options to chose from. That is was I would like FFXIV to have. Granted, I know not everyone had the same experience that I had when playing AO. Having a lot of options doesn't scare me or keep me from playing a game. It's just my opinion on what I would like in FFXIV. If other people don't feel the same as me, then they should voice there opinions. This is what these forums are for, right? Hope I didn't come off like a smart-a**, because that wasn't my intentions.
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03-13-2011, 05:35 AMZenkill
I think the markers are fantastic, and I hope they keep them. I like games that you do not need to research online before you play. Hence game, it should be enjoyment, not work. And if I wanted more of the same I'd just go back to FFXI.