Running around VS skill rotation

I'm a Dragoon. I understand that the job requires a precise execution of skill rotations to produce good damage. I have never tried any other DPS job so I don't know how they play.

All this time playing FF XIV I have a question that nobody seems to have ever asked.
Who are these optimal skill rotations are supposed to be used on? Are they specifically designed to be used on the single enemy FATE encounters or are you supposed to be able to pull these insanely long rotations on every boss encounter in the game while dodging attacks?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zavius_Firerave

are you supposed to be able to pull these insanely long rotations on every boss encounter in the game while dodging attacks?

---

That's basically it. You need to understand the fights so you can then execute your rotations optimally.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zavius_Firerave

I'm a Dragoon. I understand that the job requires a precise execution of skill rotations to produce good damage. I have never tried any other DPS job so I don't know how they play.

All this time playing FF XIV I have a question that nobody seems to have ever asked.
Who are these optimal skill rotations are supposed to be used on? Are they specifically designed to be used on the single enemy FATE encounters or are you supposed to be able to pull these insanely long rotations on every boss encounter in the game while dodging attacks?

---

You should be adhering as closely to the optimal rotation (or the most optimal possible) in group content. Your rotation assumes you have a tank and can hit positionals, barring that, for solo fates etc. you should use the highest potency rotation available.

Short fights like adds that die quick definately dont need the full rotation and botd. I only use it on the add packs I know will let me have it up for the boss fights. I think dervys guide goes into the optimal rotations for quick adds. Fates don't need your full focus, but it is good practice, to lock in muscle memory.

You shoud definately be using it on bosses. Its not a big one for DRGs anyway, basically two smaller rotations with ogcds woven in.

So when you have to take care of adds, do you continue your rotation on the adds?
What do you do when the mechanic forces you to stop attacking anything?

Combos won't break from add to add unless you're slow to hit them, but if they are weak adds, I stick to the full thrust combo, since I can't get full dot benefit. Once I return to the boss, I restart with the chaos thrust combo to get debuff and dots going again. If it's a short mechanic stop and botd isn't close to being off CD, hopefully you can get the 4th combo in to refresh the botd timer and not lose it when you can go back to hitting it. Long stop? Burn botd with geirskogul and start rotation from the beginning again. (assuming 60)

Generally speaking there should be no mechanic that forces you completely off target except for boss jumps if you know and perform the fights well, the usual punishment for this is having to skip pleb. Also generally speaking boss jumps are long enough as to clean out you debuffs timer enough that you need to start from the begining of the drg cycle anyway to keep stuff up.

Adds are generally squishy so its more a matter of taking then out at a specific time or asap both of which benefit from just continuing your 'rotation'.

You use the basic rotation on everything, slightly modified for the particular content you are running. As mentioned, lower hp mobs you don't need to put dots (CT/Phleb) as they will die before you get the full effect. It doesn't seem to be there on the new dragoon thread, it's on an obscure post somewhere but you can duplicate the math yourself:

If an enemy will live 10 sec you have at least 4 attacks

HT TT VT FT

If 5 attacks

HT ID TT VT FT

6 attacks

HT ID Dis TT VT FT

etc etc, just add the potency up and see which attacks will offer the most damage

Regarding fates, you can still execute the full rotation from the front (in the past if you didn't hit the positional it would break your combo so you literally could not do half your rotation, but they changed this back in second coil) if you think the mob will live long enough (or if you're solo'ing the fate).

It really depends on the encounter but you should try to use the full rotation anytime possible if for no other reason to build muscle memory and familiarity with various techniques.

Your purpose is to do as much damage as possible. First you understand what all your skills do, then you do the most damage possible in varying situations, based on your understanding of your skills. Then you realize the optimal rotation listing is just what you do on a dummy, aka single target that doesn't have phase shifts or disconnects.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ruskie

That's basically it. You need to understand the fights so you can then execute your rotations optimally.

---

This!!!

Imagine setting up {Trick Attack}, and just as you're about to hit the button, Oppressor turns and shoots his laser. {Trick Attack} just hit him in the front, so no 10% Raid damage increase.

So, I guess this optimal rotation is only a best case scenario where nothing is bothering you to unload all your skill on a target, right?

Optimal rotation is what you are aiming for. When you cant achieve your optimal rotation most jobs have a priority system that the optimal rotation is based on.

So for example

the optimal is HT-ID-Dis-CT-4th-Phleb-TT-VT-FT-4th repeat this rotation in a real fight would break down into this priority system:

1: heavy thrust
2: Chaos Thrust combo
4: Phleb
5: Full Thrust combo

So if a boss jumps you would look at your buffs and debuffs to see what you need to put back on. For DRG's most of the time its easier than that because if its a short break you can just continue your rotation from where you left off and if its long enough that one of your buffs/DoT's is going to fall before you get back to it you can just start over usually without consequence

Your optimal rotation is what you know to provide the biggest possible DPS on your job when there's nothing to interfere with it. Playing a DD job is all about being able to adapt your optimal rotation to the fight at hand to maximise your damage in that specific battle.

Just don't ever mix up your skills. I see a lot of NINs do this...

http://www.ffxivrotations.com/nx

...and most don't even know why it's wrong.

well when I read the part where you said your a drg I stopped there as I have experience as one start

blood bath> internal release> Heavy thrust (Flank) > leg sweep > Phlebotomize > Battle Litany > Impulse drive > Dragonfire Dive > Disenbowl > Blood of the dragon > Chaos Thrust (Rear) > jump > do what ever rng proc came up Fang and Claw (Flank) or Wheeling thrust (Rear) > Geirskogul > True Thrust > Vorpal Thrust > Leg Sweep > Full thrust.

Then repeat but always second time reverse the 3 combo so instead of the impulse drive > Disenbowl > Chaos Thrust go True Thrust > Vorpal Thrust > Full Thrust every second time using all off gcds whenever up and geirskogul whenever your blood of dragon is around 12 seconds then 12 secs before off cd and your re starting rotation then use it again and reactivate blood of the dragon before before 3rd move on combo.

I see all of you have your own favorite rotation for Dragoon. I am talking about the rotation from the "How to Dragoon per Second" thread kind of long. That rotation look like it'll take a whole minute to complete. Do people really use that system at all then?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zavius_Firerave

I see all of you have your own favorite rotation for Dragoon. I am talking about the rotation from the "How to Dragoon per Second" thread kind of long. That rotation look like it'll take a whole minute to complete. Do people really use that system at all then?

---

Yes, that's the main rotation lol

It's not that long really, break it down into like 3 parts: IDC4 and TTT4, and the 2 singles HT and Phleb. The full rotation is HT - IDC4 - Phleb - TTT4, repeat ad infinitum.

The opener is pretty intense because you want to use all your other abilities for big burst damage. Then you'll just use them as they come off cd pretty much.

It seems like a lot at first, though it's actually a bit simpler than our old 2.0 rotation.

As far as when we are talking about different parts of the rotation, the "IDC4" part could be considered the DoT rotation. This is what you put up first, obviously, but also what you'd use in a dungeon if you want to multi-DoT mobs. If you leave off Phlebotomize, you can rotate IDC4 on multiple targets and get an extra GK per min.

The "TTT4" part of the rotation is like Thor's hammer, it lays the smack down. When a low HP add spawns this is the part of the rotation you'd use to burst it down.

So in the end it's just alternating between putting up dots and laying the hammer down xD Easy-peezy

I understand that and I have been doing that while thinking "there is no way I can land the whole rotation on the boss before I have to deal with the adds".
So now we sometimes sacrifice Phlebotomize in favor of Gierskogul?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zavius_Firerave

So now we sometimes sacrifice Phlebotomize in favor of Gierskogul?

---

I'm not sure how prevalent it is but it's certainly viable in some situations. You'd really only do it for mobs in dungeons.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zavius_Firerave

I see all of you have your own favorite rotation for Dragoon. I am talking about the rotation from the "How to Dragoon per Second" thread kind of long. That rotation look like it'll take a whole minute to complete. Do people really use that system at all then?

---

Do not listen to what rotations people here tell are right, go to the Dragoon thread and pick up the one there. People making their own rotations have no idea what they are doing 99% of the time.

Rotations are meant as a guideline and are something you execute in a vacuum environment. When it comes to actual fights, you'll have to think of your rotation as a priority list, while taking into account other factors that are taking place in the encounter. To do this optimally you have to have a certain degree of encounter knowledge and general awareness. You need to be able to know what the enemy is going to do in the next X seconds and capitalize your DPS based on that information. You can always ask for more experienced Dragoons for specific tips on a fight per fight basis, as general tips only go so far. You need to be aware of things like when it is safe to Geirskogul without your Blood of the Dragon dropping off prematurely, whether or not your DoTs will tick for a long enough duration for them to be worth more damage than your regular combo, whether to use your Spineshatter Dive/Dragonfire Dive/Elusive Jump for movement or damage, what mechanics you can safely ignore, when to use your cooldowns for best uptime (popping Blood for Blood 3 seconds before the boss goes to an invulnerability phase for 10 is probably not a very good thing to do), is it worth continuing your Chaos Thrust combo on a mob that is at 5% health after hitting with it Impulse drive or go straight for the next mob, etc. The list goes on.

Most of this comes with a combination of experience and research.

P.S. This is a little bit of a naughty thing to do, but sometimes when I'm feeling lazy, I do a "full reset" of my rotation where I intentionally clip into DoTs or Heavy Thrust earlier and start the whole sequence over just to make things simple. But you probably shouldn't do that.

There's currently no fight in the game (aside from the first boss of Neverreap) where adds/jumps happen before you finish your opener. I still haven't optimized that terrible, terrible boss fight, because it's too full of RNG to make a proper rotation out of it.

You should always get through your second Heavy Thrust before you lose targeting on the boss and/or need to deal with adds. The only other one who does different is Fractal's final boss, where the adds spawn just as you hit True Thrust (allowing you to SSD to the adds to kick their butts and gsk a few of them before going back to the boss).

So, yes. You should be using the base rotation always. In every single-target boss fight. In the current meta, there's very, very little that mucks with it and forces you to do anything other than stand there and poke the boss like it's a training dummy. The hardest encounter in the game right now is a series of 5 dummy fights back to back with a few adds to kill here and there (as a melee dps).

Any single-target encounter that matters should let you get through your full first botd timer without interruptions, at the very least. If you're struggling with maintaining this, you need to evaluate what the boss is doing and adjust your playstyle (not the rotation) to accommodate the different things the boss does. I unfortunately see a LOT of melee dps dodge aoe by running AWAY from the boss. This is bad. If you're doing this, ever, your group is either using poor strategies or you're purposely making your rotation harder to maintain.

Oh! So the tank should be able to pull the boss to a safe place where I should be able to keep attacking while following it? Yeah, I mostly run away if the tank is not pulling the boss from the AoE. Still, I don't think even that strategy is applicable to every single fight. So I guess executing that long optimal rotation IS impossible. I still should know it so I can still dish out maximum DPS on any scenario.

I think they mean that you should dodge left or right when you get targeted by random circles and such instead of running away from the boss and losing uptime.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zavius_Firerave

I see all of you have your own favorite rotation for Dragoon. I am talking about the rotation from the "How to Dragoon per Second" thread kind of long. That rotation look like it'll take a whole minute to complete. Do people really use that system at all then?

---

When I first picked up DRG, it looked like a lot to me as well, but I found it a fun class to play, so I decided I wanted to get comfortably mediocre at it. Any time I had a little bit of downtime, I went to a striking dummy and practiced the opener a few times. At first, I pretty much screwed up constantly, so I did opener only. Once I got more used to it, I did opener plus going through the rotation some. I also tried to practice in all DF content I did.

Now I can go through the opener without hesitation on most days, although there are a few problem spots I have (sometimes from not waiting long enough and the first skill in a combo doesn't go through, resulting in broken combos and possibly lost botd). A bit of shame here and there, but I'm a happy little derpgoon with my performance.