Anima Relic. My rantish thoughts (And how I would change it)

SE really is asking abit much for this relic in my opinion and here's why:

Step 1) perfectly fine

Step 2)pretty fun, I did all 10 via DF. Wasn't that bad

Step 3) okay... Did you add a extra 0 somewhere SE?

Current need: 20 of 4 UI, and 16 HQ spec crafts.

The options to get UIs: Alexander,tomes,maps,hunts,beast tribes

So looks like a lot of choices right? Not really because for new players/people who didn't do beast tribes on the side don't get that choice. Maps if you can't get them yourself can get pricey. Tomes: law it's okay it's easily gained. Poetics is not something a lot of people have in mass and gain fast. So the main ways for those people are Alexander,Map,Law tomes. At a pace of 2-3 UIs we'll finish in about a month or so. (If a person can spend that much time a day grinding,which is unlikely)That's not too bad for a weapon for most of us isn't good compared to alternatives (so get the other alts you say) and that's a fair point we could do that. But is "that content isn't good for you? Don't do it then" is bad answer. Should content being ignored because it isn't fun? We pay $13 dollars a month to pay the devs for server costs and fund new content for the game. All those who say don't do it, your basically saying support content you don't want in the game.

Now enough ranting this is how I would change the relic step 3.
Half the amount of UIs needed. Make it 10 per UI instead of 20. Alex runs. Make it 5 pieces a UI. that's 50 runs for a floor. Far more manageable/mental sanity saving

Crafted items. Reduce it to two or remove the spec on the recipes.


Also: we've got 5-6 weeks before 3.2 drops with the next upgrade around then. So all this work for a subpar weapon for most for 2 weeks is abit crazy. Atleast with A4S you know your getting a good weapon *looks at Dark knight sword with parry* for the most part...

I don't think that this content would have as much of a backlash if it was released around savage, back when people still needed the mind numbing unenjoyable fights of NM.

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Originally Posted by Omni-Vocational_Ryan

Also: we've got 5-6 weeks before 3.2 drops with the next upgrade around then. So all this work for a subpar weapon for most for 2 weeks is abit crazy.

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This is the main point for me. All arguments for or against the stupidity of adding crafting into the Relic Quest aside, unless you live and breath this game, share an account with someone who works an off schedule with you (which I'm pretty sure is against the terms of use), or have an alternate that can fill the spot of the third specialist requirement to do the quest, you are extremely unlikely to finish this quest before the next patch. This weapon will be outdated before (or shortly after) anyone gets it, and that's just asinine.

We're basically reliving what was widely considered to be the biggest flaw in the original Relic Quest. The grind was not worth the reward in the early stages. By the time people had their relic's updated, they were already sporting new Extreme Primal/Raid/Tomestone weapons that were equal or better than the Relic they put all that time into. This is the whole reason why custom stats and easier light farming were such a tremendous relief and met with much greater acceptance. Yet, despite this history, we're back here again repeating the same mistakes (cuz' apparently you have to make mistakes several times to learn from them).

And for anyone who say's it's "optional" content. No. It's not. At the moment, it's the only content. SE didn't release any new dungeons, raids, or trials with 3.15. There's literally nothing else to do. Once there is new content, then this will be optional and I imagine most of us will just give up on it because we'll be sporting new weapons from new content anyway. This is especially the case for those jobs which got shafted on secondary stats with the new Relic. I'm sorry, but for the grind they are asking for there is no excuse that the stat allocation on the Relic weapon should be worse than the Antiquated weapons, even at the same level. That's garbage.

That's right we got the relic quest maybe a little too late.
if we got it earlier, even it's long to grind, you get it and still of use for current content, but when you get it late like this one, we should get a shorter grind , like you said we should get it a use for it before 3.2.
It's like a thereshold for 210 weapon at the end of 3.15 there will be few Savage and relic weapon... but 210 weapon have only one use : help you to beat savage if you don't already beat it got one and get lucky enough to got one in A4S.
If it's not the purpose of the relic, it's like a trophy.
atm by getting the long relic quest so late, it's like a way to get a 210 weapon you can use if you get in urge to get it and farm like a crazy, or just a trophy.
I think it's ok to grind to get something, but i don't get why we get shorter in time to farm to get something usefull.
It's not only the relic but all the game because more grindy since 3.0 Doh and Dol grind for exemple.
There certainly a limit to not get the game overgrindy XD

My problem is with all craft items being Special craft items. Bit of grind I don't mind as much, comes with these sort of things. But that makes it impossible for me to make the craft items. It's a slap on the face for those who level crafts to still make it impossible.

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Originally Posted by Omni-Vocational_Ryan

Should content being ignored because it isn't fun? We pay $13 dollars a month to pay the devs for server costs and fund new content for the game. All those who say don't do it, your basically saying support content you don't want in the game.

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I don't agree with this. You have your gripes, and that is fine, but that statement I don't agree with. People play this game for many reasons, and the same "If you don't like it, don't do it" is said for many things, gathering and crafting come to mind. But for others, that is something they enjoy doing. Suffice it to say, I don't like the grind, but as it stands right now, I have nothing better to do with my in-game time, and this is a very valid time sink. Is the quest chain bad? Yes and No. No, because its does what it needs to do, kill my time. Yes, because its un-interesting and the same re-hash of things seen already, and nothing new.

I'm pretty surprised with how terrible stage 3 of this relic is. ARR's nexus phase requiring 4 Bombard Cores, 4 Spring Waters, 4 "100k" gil items, several HQ crafted items, and a bunch of RNG-based dungeon items didn't even feel this bad to me. Atleast those felt like they could be worked on at a reasonable pace. This is just... awful.

I got all 16 crystals since I didn't want to turn in my Zeta (I earned that crap, not giving it away that easily), and now I'm 6/10 through the dungeon phase. These parts haven't been an issue and I've actually enjoyed them, aside from the RNG crystals being a pain at times. I kept hearing terrible stories about the item requirements for Phase 3, so I knew I had to look it up, and jeez.

This is just gross, the worst kind of OCD sort of quest. I honestly think that the development team should feel a bit ashamed for this. I'll work at this gradually, but I honestly have no hope that I'll get it within the next 6 months if things stay this way. I understand that the relic weapons should feel like they're an achievement- they always have felt that way though. Now we're just getting into the sort of territory where you have to practically live inside the game to complete them, and I can't condone that sort of setup.

The only people who are happy about the crafted items are the crafters who can rob people blind.

This quest should have come out at the same time that Savage came out, back in July. At least then people would be able to enjoy their relics for some months before they get outdone by new tome/primal weapons.

One of the things that gets me the most about it is that you need max rank with the beast tribes. There's literally NO reason for that, why not incentivize leveling them by allowing any rank to get the tokens? Terrible design all around.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

This quest should have come out at the same time that Savage came out, back in July. At least then people would be able to enjoy their relics for some months before they get outdone by new tome/primal weapons.

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I wonder if SE delayed the relic quest because it originally involved diadem grinding, and didn't expect players to grind it into the ground so quickly.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

This quest should have come out at the same time that Savage came out, back in July.

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July would have been to early. Can't let people have 210 shit to quick. 3.1 should have been when it dropped, but it didn't make it for w/e reason/

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

The only people who are happy about the crafted items are the crafters who can rob people blind.

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I'm sure prices are different from server to server, but I notice were on the same server. At the current going rate of items, you could get all 16 of them for just a smidge over 2mil. If you can't come up with that kind of cash, be it through spiritbonding, roullettes, or retainer ventures, or w/e else, then I don't know what to say. I'm a part-time crafter, and can only make easy stuff, but I can at least make money when I need to. People just aren't trying hard enough.

It doesn't help that the weapons aren't worth 2+ Million and potentially dozens of man-hours for a weapon with roughly the same stats as a Savage weapon. The investment just isn't really worth it. Sure, it's a goal to strive for, but I can't endorse a goal like that.

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Originally Posted by Nyghtmarerobu

July would have been to early. Can't let people have 210 shit to quick. 3.1 should have been when it dropped, but it didn't make it for w/e reason

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What nonsense is this ? lol.

Sorry, but no. Crafting aside, the grinded weapons for this quest make it impossible for anyone to have had these weapons "too quickly." Even hard core grinders that play the game 24/7, or those lucky few who get paid to play games 24/7, have to work around currency caps. There is literally no way for anyone to have this weapon too quickly. It would take a month (roughly, give or take a few days).

And before anyone says "a month is early," I should remind you that the Word First Clear of Alexander Savage (all the way to A4s) happened within a month of grinding. Elysium cleared the complete Savage on Aug 23, roughly 1 month after release. That means that hardcore players who toughed out the grind were running around with lvl 210 weapons within a month of Savage's release. It's not like SE confiscated them for being "too quick." If SE truly didn't want us to have ilvl 210 weapons this early, then they wouldn't have released them.

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Originally Posted by Nyghtmarerobu

I'm sure prices are different from server to server, but I notice were on the same server. At the current going rate of items, you could get all 16 of them for just a smidge over 2mil.

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Oh, I won't be spending even a fraction of that. I'm lucky enough to have friends that can craft the items for me.

However, that doesn't negate the fact that there are people out there who don't have the same access I do. Not to mention, all of the people on smaller servers where 2 mil would get you 1 of those 16 items. Just because this doesn't directly affect me, doesn't mean I don't have a write to be upset and voice my concerns.

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Originally Posted by TheGrimace

It doesn't help that the weapons aren't worth 2+ Million and potentially dozens of man-hours for a weapon with roughly the same stats as a Savage weapon. The investment just isn't really worth it. Sure, it's a goal to strive for, but I can't endorse a goal like that.

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Welp, if you got 10-20 mil, you can get your A4S clear and get a 210 that way. But if that is a better investment, then why not do that?

Getting a 210 through Savage would probably feel much more earned than the Relic at this juncture since Phase 3 just sounds to be busy work. A3S and A4S sure do have horror stories, don't they? I respect anyone who has gotten a Gordian Weapon thus far. That won't be in the cards for me though.

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Originally Posted by Februs

What nonsense is this ? lol.Crafting aside, the grinded weapons for this quest make it impossible for anyone to have had these weapons "too quickly." There is literally no way for anyone to have this weapon too quickly. It would take a month (roughly, give or take a few days).

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Its been almost 1 week, and this was finished yesterday. Thats pretty fast, and I, personally, am about halfway done with mine.

http://i515.photobucket.com/albums/t...psc3hs70mb.png

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Originally Posted by Februs

And before anyone says "a month is early," I should remind you that the Word First Clear of Alexander Savage (all the way to A4s) happened within a month of grinding. Elysium cleared the complete Savage on Aug 23, roughly 1 month after release. That means that hardcore players who toughed out the grind were running around with lvl 210 weapons within a month of Savage's release.

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This goes with the first part which is, while it took them 1 month to grind out 210 weapons, it took 1 person 1 week to do a relic. So yes, it is early. No one would get esoteric weapons if they could skip it to go to 210 with relic, plain and simple, its part of the treadmill.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Oh, I won't be spending even a fraction of that. I'm lucky enough to have friends that can craft the items for me.

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And Other people can make friends just as easy as well, wether it through free company or other means.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

Not to mention, all of the people on smaller servers where 2 mil would get you 1 of those 16 items. Just because this doesn't directly affect me, doesn't mean I don't have a write to be upset and voice my concerns.

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I never said you couldn't voice your opinion.

It might not directly affect you or me, but at the end of the day, I feel like people aren't trying hard enough. Make friends, work on making gil, start a crafter, level a gatherer, spiritbind. There are ways to make gil, small server or not.

What i'm trying to say is, you need a better argument.

Player - "I don't like this because its hard to get these items due to my lack of gil and friends"
Dev - "Have you tried making friends or maybe tried your hand at crafting or gathering?"
Player - "I don't do that because I don't like it"
Dev - "What about maybe spiritbonding or doing all of your weekly roulettes, and guildhests? what about the challenge log?"

See where I'm going with this?

No, actually I don't need a new argument, simply because, I don't need to prove anything to you. This is not a speech nor a debate. This is my opinion (and a lot of peoples' opinions judging from the insane number of negative threads here), and I don't need to document it with facts or numbers to some random person on a forum.

By the way, you keep talking about how you know "people aren't trying hard enough." How do you have any clue, whatsoever, of what people are doing in game? You don't. Just because people have commented on their complaints about the relic, doesn't mean they're all standing around Idyllshire waiting for the relic to fall in their lap. So, maybe you need a better argument.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

No, actually I don't need a new argument, simply because, I don't need to prove anything to you. This is not a speech nor a debate. This is my opinion (and a lot of peoples' opinions judging from the insane number of negative threads here), and I don't need to document it with facts or numbers to some random person on a forum.

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Thats cool. The idea of putting it on the forums is to get support and feedback from other players. So I gave you my feedback, which disagreed with yours. *shrugs*

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

By the way, you keep talking about how you know "people aren't trying hard enough."

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Originally Posted by Nyghtmarerobu

I feel like people aren't trying hard enough.

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Please don't put words in my mouth.

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Originally Posted by NorthernLadMSP

How do you have any clue, whatsoever, of what people are doing in game? You don't. Just because people have commented on their complaints about the relic, doesn't mean they're all standing around Idyllshire waiting for the relic to fall in their lap. So, maybe you need a better argument.

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You're right, I don't have any clue what people are doing in game. They could be working on their relic, or they could be idle somewhere. I'm sure there are people out there busting their butt, but for every 1 of those, there are 5 people here, complaining about how hard and obnoxious the quest is, with a desire for them to maybe lax the requirements to make it easier.

I won't disagree that it sucks, but I find that is sucks for a different reason. Lack of interesting content and difficulty. Either way good luck with your relic/s.

Well, I guess that we can agree on. I also find it dull and uninspired that there is nothing fresh at all (dungeons, trials, primals) involved with this "new" relic.

I'll leave this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVGa7HIWyG8


Might be good for a laugh.

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Originally Posted by Nyghtmarerobu

Its been almost 1 week, and this was finished yesterday. Thats pretty fast, and I, personally, am about halfway done with mine ... While it took them 1 month to grind out 210 weapons, it took 1 person 1 week to do a relic. So yes, it is early. No one would get esoteric weapons if they could skip it to go to 210 with relic, plain and simple, its part of the treadmill.

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Interesting. I'm honestly curious what kind of grind schedule this person worked with, because I have a suspicion that it falls far outside of the average and more into the "I live and breath this game." Regardless, this is still not all that convincing for it being "too early," because it's still not.

This is a bit of splitting hairs here, but, technically, if we're talking the precise amount of time that it took the first Raiders to get their 210 weapons out of Savage, then one week is not actually that far off. You have to remember that the Savage clear groups progressed through 4 Raids in a month, not just 1. The amount of time that averages out to is roughly 1 week per floor of Alex Savage. So, technically, the amount of time they actually spent getting weapons out of A4S is roughly the same as the amount of time that this lovely lalafel spent grinding away on their Anima: 1 Week.

Now, you might argue that the full month should be accounted for, because the gear drops from floors 1-3 were necessary to clear 4. You wouldn't be wrong to point that out, only that's not quite accurate. Firstly, most Raid groups opt for melded accessories over the ones that drop from the first 2 floors of Savage (especially Tanks, since they saw far worse returns out of the Savage accessories. Hence, the supposed upcoming re-spec for Tank attack power scaling). So, accessories are out. Secondly, and more importantly, if we are accounting for the time it takes to fully gear up on armour and accessories, then the time frame is still similar.

A weapon alone will not see someone through A4S (or any of the other floors, for that matter). So getting it "early" isn't an advantage to raiders, because they'd still need to gear up the rest of their pieces. How long do you figure that gearing would take? How long do you think it took that Lalafel to get all those Diadem pieces? Or the Gordian pieces? The point is that if we're going to compare the total time it takes to gear up, then we can't just count up the full time for a Progression Raider and not do the same for the Relic grinder. If we're talking just weapons, then it's roughly the same amount of time. If we're talking full gear top to bottom, then it's still roughly the same amount of time. Given that you still have to grind (albeit faster for some people than others) for that Anima weapon, the 200 weapon acts as a mainstay until you get it. So, unless you're going to just not run savage until you get that weapon, then anyone who raids would have made that investment regardless of how fast they planned on finishing their Anima. It would have been either that, or don't run any Alex S until you finish your relic.

As for casual players who don't raid in Savage, then sure, maybe they might have found it better to skip their Eso weapon for the sake of Anima (assuming they're not quite so casual and are actually closet hardcore and can grind at blitz speeds like your example), but so what? What advantage is a 210 weapon giving a casual player in casual content over the 200 weapon?

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Originally Posted by VirusChris

I'll leave this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVGa7HIWyG8


Might be good for a laugh.

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This was hilarious XD. Made my night right there lol.

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Originally Posted by Februs

Snip

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Put the raiding aside for a minute and look at how the gear treadmill works. When Savage hit, we had 3 weapons that were at the end of the line. i200/210 Eso weapon, and 210 gordian. To get gordian, its pretty much required to have your i200 eso weapon. This is how it was..

Now for examples sake, lets say relic came out at the same time as savage. It starts at 170 when you first get it. Dungeouns are easy so you breeze right through it in a day, maybe 2 if you don't have alot of time, then you get an i200 weapon. You've just thrown out the esoteric weapon to a lot of people. This does not mean I would not have liked to see them add it earlier, but it goes against their normal MO of doing things. Either way, it still should have came out earlier, just not when savage hit. 3.1 or maybe even a patch before 3.1.

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Originally Posted by Nyghtmarerobu

Either way, it still should have came out earlier, just not when savage hit. 3.1 or maybe even a patch before 3.1.

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I see what you're saying, and I can agree with it. The problem, I think, comes for competitive stats. People would have still opted for the Eso weapon. For one, you're still making eso's anyway, so you're gonna spend them eventually to gear out alternate jobs. Two, the stat differences between the Relic vs the Eso make the Eso more desirable than the Relic in a lot of cases. Also, it wouldn't be the first time SE went against their MO. Custom stats from Novus/Nexus/Zodiac meant people were outright ignoring weathered/ironworks weapons for progression raiding (especially at the Zodiac phase, where the light grind was much easier).

I do agree, though, that if SE released the items at the same time as Savage, they would have had to modify the grind to match. Drop rates for the Atma phase would have been lower, and there would have likely been a item or light grind involved with the dungeon crawl to try and match the 2 and a bit week grind that it takes to get an Eso weapon, just to even things out a little. The part that would totally justify this is being able to skip a stage with the Zeta trade.

Kinda not even worth the bother for the 210 weapon, from looks alone. Not sure on the other relic 210s, but the PLD 200 looks better to me, than the 210 version. All that work for a 210, and it doesn't even glow.

It's the HQ section that just kills it for the VAST majority of the player base. Period.

Crafting portion nerf incoming. At least that's how I read the letter from Yoshi.

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Originally Posted by FunkyBunch

Crafting portion nerf incoming. At least that's how I read the letter from Yoshi.

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I read it more as a "We dun goofed guys. But sorry were not gonna change it right now. Look forward to it being better next patch"

My version of Relict would be like this:
Step 1: what is step 2 right now.
Step 2: To awaken your weapon you need to collect items from 3 different 2.x primals. If you do it unsynced drop chance = 5%. If you do in synced drop chance = 100%
Step 2,5: Kill Bismark, Ravana and Thordan. Drop chance: 10% EX Version has a 100% drop rate.
So people can farm it or take the shortcut if they have the skill.
After this your weapon is Ilvl 200.

Step 3: Your weapon has awoken but to master it you have to beat it.
- Special boss you have to fight 1on1 (or with npcs)
- No food/pots usable.
- will have fixed gear/ilvl for this fight.
- battle goes on for 10 minutes
- based on your performance your weapons Itemlevel will be something between 201 or 210.
- you can retry until you have mastered this fight/your weapon.

Positive side effect: once your weapon has ilvl 210 you know your job.