Buff shields.

I understand that removing the STR modifier from shields was so that we wouldn't be overpowered going into 3.0.

But the nerf has had a serious impact on shields. A tower shield now blocks for 28%. In 2.x the relic shield blocked for like 35%!! And it was a kite shield!!

PLD is meant to be the OP physical tank, so I don't really see the problem with bringing shields back to how they were in 2.x with a 30-40% block strength, yes it's like having a chance to proc sentinel on every hit but isn't that the trade off of being a PLD? Less damage dealt, meh magic defense but physical defense King?

Block strength will increase with the increase in item level. 2.X's 40ish% block was with late 50 gear, like i130. We're only at the first set of raid/gear and we already have access to almost 30% block strength. By the end of Heavensward, PLDs will have the same block strength as before, if not more since we'll get more ilvl jumps per raid tier this time.

Well, you could get 40% with the upgraded tower shield from Gerolt, but there wasn't a higher level tower shield than that. There wasn't a higher level buckler than Diamond, for that matter. We're only a little behind right now. Prytwen is 22%, and I seem to recall Holy Shield being something around 21-24. Gordian shield is 29%. I doubt we'll catch up to shields in their heyday (Diamond Shield with crazy STR giving like 40% block rate with 20+ power) but whatever. I don't like that they dumbed down stats even further, but it's not like it was really a choice before.

Rather than just straight up buffing shields, I'd like if a stat could modify power or rate again - just not a free stat, like STR was. Maybe attach it to parry or something. Anything to get some real mitigation stats going.

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Originally Posted by Brannigan

I don't like that they dumbed down stats even further, but it's not like it was really a choice before.

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I don't mind that they tried to make stats a bit more approachable. I do mind that they did a crappy job of thinking it through, and made what feels like arbitrary decisions surrounding how different stats work and interact.

Maybe they should make parry double dip its effect. Have it work like crit does now - the parry rating affects your chance to parry AND BLOCK at the rate it currently does, and also have a minor impact on the strength of block and parry.

It would be nice to think that if I decided to stack parry on my gear for whatever weird reason (maybe if the meta changes so tank DPS isnt so important) that having 400 parry on gear would not only give me 8-9% more parry chance, but also 8-9% more block chance and bump my parry from 20% to 24% and my block from 29% to 34% or something. Something fairly concrete so you actually notice a difference.

That said, whilst I wont disagree that I wish shields were stronger, I think we can all agree that paladin mitigation isnt exactly bad, and if paladins are in need of buffs then buffing their RNG-based physical mitigation even more isnt the best place to target them!

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Originally Posted by Sapphidia

Snip.

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I'm with you on this one it sucks that there's no benefit to having tanking stats and having them do nothing and there's not any defensive stats besides parry. Too bad there's no stat that increases evasion as well it'd be nice to see dodges besides having blind up but that might be too OP. Double dipping would help tanks a lot as it does make a noticeable difference to want tank stats where the meta we have now we avoid them, maybe have crit on gear convert to parry?Idk if it'd help can't really think while at work lol.

I just miss the old days seeing myself when I was a pld tank block for 35% and parry for like 29% and shrug off all the enemies physical attacks...the good ol days!

If the % of damage blocked and % chance to block damage isn't made independent of iLv there will be a problem EVERY expansion where at launch the shield will be really weak.

SE should make the item block stats level independent but give the shield stats that make it worth increasing the ilv of. That way we don't end up in this ridiculous loop.

Either making the primary/secondary stats more evenly split, or by moving some of the WD from the sword onto the shield, it is possible to make the shield a proper progression piece without having its performance vary all over the place depending where you are in an expansion cycle.


Edit: Clarification between level and item level in a few cases

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Originally Posted by MeeYow

If the % of damage blocked and % chance to block damage isn't made independent of iLv there will be a problem EVERY expansion where at launch the shield will be really weak.

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Frankly, it should be more dependent on the ilv of the mob we're facing. The closer you're shields ilv is to the mobs your facing should have a direct effect on the reduction benefits the shield yields to a cap of course.

That would achieve the same effect in a nice way.

I wonder if it can be implemented seeing as it would require some new stat for the mobs or if it could be scaled off some kind of parameter they already have.

Ideally, I think it would work best based off the block strength that comes on each shield, as it naturally goes up with gear as the cap. However, utilizing the difference in ilv between your shield and the monster to scale it's maximum potential. The higher the mob's ilv is above your shields ilv the less damage you would block, however if the shield's ilv is equal too or greater than the mob's ilv then it can block for it's maximum potential.

It would yield several benefits such as
-Giving PLD some actual mitigation advantage over other tanks, when equally/overgeared for content.
-The playing field would be level with other tanks when learning content, as shields wouldn't be as effective against higher ilv mobs giving PLD no significant advantage.
-It would give shields more inherent value again, making it a more viable option to upgrade early on when new content arrives.

Honestly, they could do something similar with that worthless Parry stat and increase it's ability to block/parry to something significant while using the characters ilv vs mob's ilv difference to scale it's maximum potential. At least it wouldn't be a totally dead weight stat when tanks are forced deal with it when upgrading gear.

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

I don't mind that they tried to make stats a bit more approachable. I do mind that they did a crappy job of thinking it through, and made what feels like arbitrary decisions surrounding how different stats work and interact.

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To be honest, the only two factors were pretty reasonable ones -- strength for more block strength, dexterity for more block rate... The only way that might have been improved upon would be if Vitality also provided a bit, while Strength provided less, if paired with a few other Fending Accessory balancing changes (seriously, our tank accs provide no survivability increase once reaching minimum eHP...). That, or, as Brannigan said, giving us some actual secondary stats to play around with as tanks. To be honest, though, I'm not certain I want PLD's physical mitigation to scale *that* much better than the other two tanks as gear improves, least of all where it might later prevent them from being reasonably buffed in other, less RNG-dependent areas. As long as their physical passive miti is fine right now (they're already top in true passive phys miti), I'd really rather seem them get as close as they can to on par with the other tanks in other ways.

Pipedream: I wish blocks weren't just parries with a different scalar. Also wish parries worked a bit more like, well, parries. Would have loved to see Blocks, Dodges, and Parries modified into an enemy accuracy reduction system (deflection/evasion) and flat absorb (guard), and then being able to gear into any of those 2-3 defensive stats.

This would have to go hand in hand with the same change on the player side of the accuracy system as well, though, which would allow for percentile hits (glancing blows) according to accuracy (whereas all hits right now vary within a SD of 5% iirc, this would assume you're hitting for the maximum, but then you'd have a negative range that decreases as your accuracy nears cap. Accuracy beyond the opponent's cap would give additional critical strike chance, though at a far lesser rate than the actual Critical Strike stat).

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Originally Posted by SwordCoheir

Honestly, they could do something similar with that worthless Parry stat and increase it's ability to block/parry to something significant while using the characters ilv vs mob's ilv difference to scale it's maximum potential. At least it wouldn't be a totally dead weight stat when tanks are forced deal with it when upgrading gear.

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As things are now, when I see Parry on Pld weapons/shields the first thought that goes through my mind is "wasted stat."The reason for this is because Parry scales for crap, and Pld's have shields! Why the heck would I want to increase my Parry rate when I could just lift my left arm up?! Further, given that Pld's have the absolute lowest Dps of ... well, everyone, when I see anything other than Det and Crit on a sword I can't help but cringe. One stat is useful. The other is crap.

Now, if it worked the way you specified here, I may have to actually change my thinking. I'd probably still prefer that Det/Crit split on my sword, but if I saw Parry on my shield I might not immediately think it's a waste.

That's pretty much my mindset Februs. Parry is such an underwhelming stat the thought of it on any piece of gear is cringeworthy. If they do a STR to VIT changeover in 3.2 like many of us are hoping will happen, then I wouldn't mind if Parry takes up STR's place, so even if Parry is worthless we won't have to deal with the loss of a secondary stat as well.

The problem with +Block STR/+Parry STR is the existence of Raw Intuition/Sheltron. Sheltron especially would become a bit insane, since you could use a tower shield and couple that with high "Parry".

Shields are actually fine, though I'd like them more if there was a Tower/Kite/Buckler for every ilvl.

The Parry stat is a different story. There's a bunch of ways to fix it, but anything involving +mitigation becomes a problem in any fight where you're not tanking all the time - though it'd still be better than what we have now.