Complaints that I don't see in game

Has anyone actually seen this on more than one or two occasions of months and months of playing? These complaints seem to rear up all the time and they just don't happen for me.

1. Ice Mages. "I'm role-playing an Ice Mage so I don't use fire spells." Never seen this. Yet I see a lot of people bring this reference up.

2. "People abuse vote kick." Don't see this happening either. I really have to wonder what are *YOU* doing to be kicked to make this such an issue.

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

Has anyone actually seen this on more than one or two occasions of months and months of playing? These complaints seem to rear up all the time and they just don't happen for me.

1. Ice Mages. "I'm role-playing an Ice Mage so I don't use fire spells." Never seen this. Yet I see a lot of people bring this reference up.

2. "People abuse vote kick." Don't see this happening either. I really have to wonder what are *YOU* doing to be kicked to make this such an issue.

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Trust me, some black mages actually worry about their MP so much that they prefer cast ice spells because they see their bar always filled.
If you try to give some advices to someone you can get kicked, because you know helping someone is being elitist for some people.

I've ran into a few Thunder mages, not Ice Mages.

I've been kicked for telling the tank that he's in the wrong stance. For telling a WHM that using Cure II constantly will drain your MP and asking a Dragoon to stop standing in the circles.

Also keep in mind, you're ONE person playing at ONE particular time on ONE server. You won't be able to see/run into everything.

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

1. Ice Mages.

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Yes.

Bliz 3, Bliz 3, Bliz 3, Hard casted Thunder 3(bye bye 1414mp, oh wait..). And don't get me started with AOEs.

Just ask any BLM that knows how to play that has been paired with an Ice Mage and ask them is it a pain in the ass to carry a BLM.

Well I can answer that XD, sure is!

Yeah, I have never seen either as well.

I've also never

*witnessed harassment
*been kicked from a dungeon myself
*seen someone rage over low DPS numbers when parsing (and openly discussing parsing)
*had a DRK who pretended to be a DPS
*had a healer refuse to heal
*had a tank refuse to tank


Though, I did have a Summoner enter a dungeon (pre 3.x) when I was tanking with the opening line:
"I don't AoE, don't mass pull."

I was like what? and did my usual big pull anyway. And that SMN, true to their words, did not use a single AoE. I don't think they were even using anything other than Ruin I. This is the _only_ time I've ever kicked someone who was not offline, as they were just outright refusing to contribute.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

*witnessed harassment
*seen someone rage over low DPS numbers when parsing (and openly discussing parsing)

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Seen it. Been on the receiving end of it.
Seen it.

Just ran into an OLD ERA blm few days ago ... they refuse to use new skills and stick to the old 2.0 rotations.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

Yeah, I have never seen either as well.

I've also never

*witnessed harassment
*been kicked from a dungeon myself
*seen someone rage over low DPS numbers when parsing (and openly discussing parsing)
*had a DRK who pretended to be a DPS
*had a healer refuse to heal
*had a tank refuse to tank


Though, I did have a Summoner enter a dungeon (pre 3.x) when I was tanking with the opening line:
"I don't AoE, don't mass pull."

I was like what? and did my usual big pull anyway. And that SMN, true to their words, did not use a single AoE. I don't think they were even using anything other than Ruin I. This is the _only_ time I've ever kicked someone who was not offline, as they were just outright refusing to contribute.

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I've seen harassment once. But everything else I haven't.

I have seen the ice mages and the ruin-only summoners. In fact, one Haukke NM I ran while leveling WAR, the summoner not only cast nothing but Ruin I, they also had no summon out the entire dungeon.

i have been voted kicked just for loot out of the blue, nobody said a word, just bam kicked.

All because 2 of us wanted the same item...so yes vote kick abuse happens but very very rarely.

I've seen the first a few times...a BLM that would literally cast nothing but Blizzard spells over and over again. I've also seen them goo up and run out of MP completely, then have to wait for it to recharge. I've never been a BLM, so I'm not sure what happened there, but I know that it was not supposed to.

As for the second, no. I think I've seen someone try to boot another member once or twice without any stated reason, but the rejection was typically the end of it. I've seen a lot of Abandon Duty spam, however, even after most members would outright state their desire to continue the raid. There would always be someone who initiated the vote again and again and again and again.

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

2. "People abuse vote kick." Don't see this happening either. I really have to wonder what are *YOU* doing to be kicked to make this such an issue.

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I have never been kicked myself, but I've seen someone for no reason try to kick BLM from WoD till it passed :( The other time in WoD someone tried to kick BLM from our FC (also for no reason at all), but that time there was more of us from FC and it did not pass.

People make exaggerated claims to add "evidence" to their ideas. You see it on a lot of forum arguments.

I've definitely witnessed harassment. I've also seen abusive language and initiated a vote kick for it, which was carried through. Seen abusive language that another player said he'd report but the point was moot because the instance was over.

I've only seen constructive discussions on parsing, in groups whose intention was to pass an objective such as the new EX primals or Alex Savage. My own group has dropped players from our team for low numbers but we didn't cite parsing as the cause.

When you look at the list of reasons you can dismiss a player it's actually very narrow. Afk, offline, harassment, or cheating. You can't objectively kick people for not playing how you want to play. But people do that all the time. I'd call that abuse of the vote kick.

I've seen ice mages before, mostly in lower level dungeons. Some are willing to learn, some want to role play, others go, "I play how I want!"

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

*had a healer refuse to heal
*had a tank refuse to tank

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These are the two I most commonly see. I mostly play SMN now, and it's ridiculous how many tanks either cannot or will not hold hate on more than one mob..

I don't even get healers who refuse to heal. I get AFK healers who go on about how they "had" to answer that text in the middle of a boss fight. I had three ice mages in my FC. That wasn't a fun week. :(

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

I've seen ice mages before, mostly in lower level dungeons. Some are willing to learn, some want to role play, others go, "I play how I want!"



These are the two I most commonly see. I mostly play SMN now, and it's ridiculous how many tanks either cannot or will not hold hate on more than one mob..

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I've seen bad tanks, but not tanks refuse to tank. I mean like "Do this, or I won't tank. Good luck." or "I don't want to tank, I just want to play a guy with a big axe!"

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Originally Posted by Melch

Trust me, some black mages actually worry about their MP so much that they prefer cast ice spells because they see their bar always filled.
If you try to give some advices to someone you can get kicked, because you know helping someone is being elitist for some people.

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This, I just ran into a ice Mage in DD last week. I didn't say anything because it wouldn't have mattered anyways. It's usually pointless to give advice to people anymore because they think you're criticizing them or trying to tell them how to play their class. Which most people don't like. Thus getting the vote kick. I been in a couple DFs where people would kick because a tank would aggro single mobs, healer can't keep up on heals or dps, low dps all together. The most ridiculous vote kick I have ever seen was a tank asking this healer "which way is north?" The healer answered then the tank said CORRECT then booted the healer...guess who the healer was :/ so yeah I seen this a lot

Ice mages are a rare bunch. I was unfortunate to encounter one. I gotten scolded by her and her friends for giving some friendly advice. I left when it gotten hostile.

As for the vote abuse, I was victim of being kicked from WoD one time.. I never said or did anything to warrant it.

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*witnessed harassment
*been kicked from a dungeon myself
*seen someone rage over low DPS numbers when parsing (and openly discussing parsing)
*had a DRK who pretended to be a DPS
*had a healer refuse to heal
*had a tank refuse to tank

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Seen it all and.

*had people that rage at noobs who are watching cut scenes
*had noobs that rage you're leaving them behind that are watching said cut scenes
*had a MNK that can't keep greased lightning up or use correct positionals
*had a BRD that refused to use wanderers minuet
*had a WAR that refused to use definace and died to everything, lost hate to everything, and caused everyone to die
*had stupid DPS that stand in AOE's and refuse to do mechanics, dying and then blaming the healer
*ice mages
*had DRGs that have no idea what heavy thrust is
*had an i200 SMN that never used bane in Saint Mocianne
*had a WHM that spammed medica 2
*had 2 players in a dungeon that would rather stand and look at the details of a map and full on conversation about it than DPS
*dead DPS wanting raises when they can bypass weakness and use the shortcut back
*tanks that walk through mobs thinking thats it for hate
*tanks tanking mobs facing the party
*tanks that refuse to use cooldowns on trash
*NINs using doton on single target mobs
*people that afk, either irl or typing in a LS/FC every 2 seconds
*level 50's with no soul crystals
*DRKS with no provoke in Alex
*WARs that let V wrath stacks fall off
*WARs that won't do tanking mechanics, because Fell Cleave, and then die because they don't know what Vengance/Thrill/Holmg is
*DRKs that think Blood Price is their only ability they should use

Probably a lot more.

I'm a MCH main, but I heal dungeons a decent bit simply because it takes no real effort, (barring horrible groups). When I was leveling my SCH, I ran into a MCH in the Aery that made me understand why we MCHs tend to have a bad reputation. This was the MCH equivalent of a Ruin Only SMN or an Ice Mage. They use their turret only twice the entire run, at the first boss when I mentioned to remember it, and at the very end of the final boss fight right before it died. While I wasn't always watching their rotation, so I don't know for certain if they used other skills, I also know for a fact that they didn't use their DoT, (AKA MCH's most powerful single skill aside from a full rotation Wildfire), even once the entire run. Just because these types of players are rare, doesn't mean they don't exist. It just means you were lucky enough to not get paired with them....

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Originally Posted by Melch

Trust me, some black mages actually worry about their MP so much that they prefer cast ice spells because they see their bar always filled.
If you try to give some advices to someone you can get kicked, because you know helping someone is being elitist for some people.

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This ^

Trying to be helpful seems to make you an elitist.

In game it is way less than it would appear on the forums. But it does happen and I have kicked people who are just generally being an ass to other team members. It's actually very rare and I find the community pretty darned good in game.

Dpsers... Well I mean if you want to get nitpicky there's a lot of room for improvement (but that's there in all roles) but does it really affect the success of the run? Not in most content. Never run into an "Ice Mage" yet but I'm looking forward to it.

I ran into an ice Mage this afternoon in Totorak lmao. I never saw him use Fire once. He kept saying my Yoshimitsu Atma was cool and wondered how he could get one. I told him it was a Relic Weapon and he didn't know what one was.

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Originally Posted by Kaurie

I've seen bad tanks, but not tanks refuse to tank. I mean like "Do this, or I won't tank. Good luck." or "I don't want to tank, I just want to play a guy with a big axe!"

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I gotcha. Sorry, I misunderstood what you meant. :)

I've seen that happen one time in a Labyrinth of the Ancients run. This guy went in on marauder and refused to tank because, "you don't need six tanks in this dungeon." The only reason why I really remember it was because I felt bad for his co-tank, who was a fresh 50 and had no hope of holding hate against a group of DPS that were around i110. They did their best though. :)

The few times I've been kick have ways been "Dodged a Bullet" situations.

Never seen an Ice Mage before but I ran with a few parser users at one time. They were decent people though so I had no issues with them.

My biggest issue is the "Have Clear/No Noobs!!! <angry nerd face>" crowd that seems to expect 100% perfection on day to week old content. Especially the ones who suck worse than people WITH the time bonus.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

People make exaggerated claims to add "evidence" to their ideas. You see it on a lot of forum arguments.

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That might be true for some, but I tend to think I and others in this thread are just lucky.

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Originally Posted by Gamer3427

I'm a MCH main, but I heal dungeons a decent bit simply because it takes no real effort, (barring horrible groups). When I was leveling my SCH, I ran into a MCH in the Aery that made me understand why we MCHs tend to have a bad reputation. This was the MCH equivalent of a Ruin Only SMN or an Ice Mage. They use their turret only twice the entire run, at the first boss when I mentioned to remember it, and at the very end of the final boss fight right before it died. While I wasn't always watching their rotation, so I don't know for certain if they used other skills, I also know for a fact that they didn't use their DoT, (AKA MCH's most powerful single skill aside from a full rotation Wildfire), even once the entire run. Just because these types of players are rare, doesn't mean they don't exist. It just means you were lucky enough to not get paired with them....

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As a Machinist main who knows how all their skills work and how to put out quite a bit of damage...this saddens me.

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Originally Posted by Naraku_Diabolos

I ran into an ice Mage this afternoon in Totorak lmao. I never saw him use Fire once. He kept saying my Yoshimitsu Atma was cool and wondered how he could get one. I told him it was a Relic Weapon and he didn't know what one was.

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Not gonna lie. That's really adorable lol. Curious noobs are the best. :D

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Originally Posted by Alex_Lenderson

2. "People abuse vote kick." Don't see this happening either. I really have to wonder what are *YOU* doing to be kicked to make this such an issue.

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Well that just comes off as rude :/

I've seen people be kicked for no good reason, I've been kicked for no reason, and neither I or the other people kicked at fault.
I've encountered healers who refuse to heal and tanks who refuse to do their job. There are plenty of people who should be kicked but aren't. Most of us just suffer through it because they're only 20-30 minutes of our lives.

If you really want to see what some of us experience, you should direct your attention to the always on first page thread: Tales from Duty Finder
As always, just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

seen lots of bad players but thats once on a blue moon, 90% of the time the runs are smooth....

half of them because lazyness , others dont know any better and some are stubborn that think they know everything -.-

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Originally Posted by Kahnom

Just ran into an OLD ERA blm few days ago ... they refuse to use new skills and stick to the old 2.0 rotations.

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This is a kind of a bad habit with me when the boss has lot of mechanics that need dodging and enochian drops quite easily

Had a tank in Fractal attack normally I dunno how, but it sure didn't have enmity. It probably counts as refusal to tank rather than bad tank. Cause you don't get there as a tank without knowing how to get enmity.

I have seen the Ice mages. As a tank it makes me want to rip my eyes out. And their famous excuse is " I am roleplaying as an ice mage".

While I am like GTFOH with that BS