As it stands, I very much enjoy the Machinist job. It was literally the first thing I did when Heavensward hit. I didn't even run the main scenario until I could as a MCH.
That aside, it's been mentioned, joked about, and lamented that Machinist is currently the only job in game with absolutely no means of self healing (item usage doesn't count, and is of limited utility anyways). I - and I'm sure others, but speaking only for myself - would really love an official answer on this matter. Was this intentional? Was it perhaps an oversight? When you consider some of the other far more situational/limited use or utility skills MCH was given, why omit such a vital one? Especially in a manner that shines a spotlight on the fact that they are the sole job without it (let alone much in the way of defensive skills/cooldowns).
If you would, please give us an official response on this. Thank you.
Question to the Dev Team - Re: MCH and Self-Healing
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12-08-2015, 06:28 PMThirdChild_ZKIQuestion to the Dev Team - Re: MCH and Self-Healing
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12-08-2015, 10:08 PMMrCookTM
And where exactly is the need to make yet another thread, instead of just bumping the existing one you made on the exact same topic?
On the topic itself, there are quite a few classes without a self heal, they can just cross class the gimped (untraited) version of second wind that barey does anything. It's still a self heal, however the only reason to cross class it is the pure lack of better options, I'm pretty sure if there were better ones, SW would be the first thing to be switched out for most Nin/Drg/Brd players. -
12-08-2015, 10:44 PMEphierComplains about new thread but comes in to bump anyways. You funny. Also Second Wind allows you to be greedy in certain situations mid cast. There are times you can just take an AoE, use SW and get the rest of your life back from regens. '-'Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCookTM
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12-08-2015, 11:03 PMMrCookTMThere's two threads now anyway, what should I have done? Reply in the other thread so both are bumped? You're certainly a very smart person... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ephier
Anyway... SW does what, 1k+ heal if it doesn't crit? There's barely any situation where 1k more or less hp will make a huge enough difference to really matter, the +/- 5% variation on incoming damage in this game would make it pretty dangerous to stand in something that would kill you without SW. Regarding healing back up after getting hit, it's the same. If you're so low that you need a heal, you will probably need a heal (or 'be healed') regardless of SW, no matter what.
It has it's uses... but the effect is too small to be a make or breaker in most situations. So I'd rather have the dev team spend they're time on something more useful than a tiny self heal for mch, that wouldn't do much in the end.
Monk can be greedy, yes. But traited SW is on a whole other level.
I'm not even going to touch physick on smn/blm... someone that physick's himself on one of these job's in any kind of even remotely serious group content, would just outright be removed from my group, without any further explanation. ^^ -
12-08-2015, 11:18 PMThirdChild_ZKI
Truth be told, I don't recall formally asking this question in this manner before. I still no less would like an official answer.
And yes, I'm aware that Second Wind isn't a particularly potent heal. But it IS the difference between dying when you've almost got something down while soloing and being able to sustain yourself long enough to finish it off. Or as said, taking a hit when you can't avoid it and handling it yourself, sparing a healer having to shift focus from the tank or themselves to you for a moment. Mere seconds, yes, but seconds do count sometimes.
There's also the clearly pointed out fact that they are the ONLY ones who can't. Imagine if, say, PLD and DRK had their Hallowed Ground/Living Dead, and WAR did NOT have Holmgang. Or if WHM and SCH had a form of Regen and AST did not at all; would you not have questions? It's not a question of potency, but a lack of ability entirely. -
12-09-2015, 03:51 AMvalsemiel
Second Wind is closer to 2k+ if I'm remembering correctly. There a plenty of situations where a self heal would be beneficial for a MCH:
A1: Prey
A3: Sluice/Splashes
A4: Final Phase Carnage 0 + Jagd Dolls
While it's not make or break, it's definitely not useless and would be welcomed by most people who play the class in end game content. -
12-09-2015, 04:48 AMbounddreamer
I've been leveling MCH recently, one of the last jobs I've gotten to 50 sadly (I'm a tank main) and one thing that has and continues to bother me is that PUG/MNK isn't available for cross class like it is for BRD. I want that Internal Release and second wind!!
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12-09-2015, 07:14 AMHouston009Not to nitpick, but Featherfoot, Keen Flurry, Mantra, Feint(NIN), and etc. would go well before Second Wind. Second Wind has saved lives plenty of times.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCookTM
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12-09-2015, 07:55 AMMrCookTMI was talking about cc skills that people actually use, so things like featherfoot and feint were not considered. I completely disagree about mantra though, I weight cc'd mantra way higher, like wayyyyyy higher than untraited SW. But that's going to take the discussion into a direction that misses both the OP's and my point. What I am saying is just that in my opinion SE doesn't need to put developement time into somethinge that doesn't do that much for other dps classes (brd/nin/drg) or flat out nothing (smn/blm) as it is, better give mch some QoL and aesthetic changes so the class is more appealing to the playerbase in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by Houston009
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12-09-2015, 02:06 PMGamer3427
I completely agree with you OP. It's particularly an issue with the fact that the best HQ potions we can get only heal for about as much as Second Wind does on NIN and BRD, (DEX classes, while Second Wind is STR based), and also share a cooldown with DEX potions which are all but required in Savage. Meanwhile they can use both Second Wind and potions. I've complained about this time and again, because while yes Second Wind is cross classed for those classes, it's still an option. Right now we have absolutely no self-healing or even really defensive skills. Keen Flurry is useless in group content and should be swapped out for Feint for GB purposes, while Feint's slow effect is all but useless for damage mitigation. The closest thing we have to defensive skills are Dismantle/Rend Mind, which is a measly 5% and you have to know before hand whether your foe does physical or magic damage.....
While I'm not claiming self-healing can make or break the game, it can be the difference at times between a wipe and a saved run when things go wrong. Personally, if I had to choose for an update to MCH to give us a self-healing skill, I'd say combine Dismantle and Rend Mind into one skill, and replace the new empty slot with anything that allows us some sort of healing that isn't tied to a consumable..... -
12-09-2015, 04:16 PMMrCookTM
Second wind isn't strength based, it scales off attack rating. It heals for the same amount of hp for brd/nin/drg/war, considering a similar amount of main stat.
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12-10-2015, 01:33 AMApeiron"Cure Potency varies with current attack power."Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCookTM
If you look at your strength stat, and then down at attack power stat, you'll note they're the same. The only time this will change is when you have something that buffs your attack power, hence the "current" condition (fairly certain that means most buffs to damage, but not buffs that lower resistances like Disembowel).
Not certain if you'll get an official response, Zki, but maybe I can help with the understanding as this doesn't appear to be an oversight.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI
When choosing where the MCH can get their CC skills from, the development team has set a precedent of allowing jobs to only CC from two other classes, and those classes relate in someway with the job you're playing (in MCH case that means ARC and LNC). Neither of these class have self heals, themselves, as the ARC is typically (read: ideally) far back enough to not be in instances that require last minute saves. The LNC meanwhile has decent def and m. def for a melee dps. Both of them have to CC just to get their self-heals (from PUG).
What this means is that it's not intentional, but at the same time not an oversight. Rather, this is a by-product of the development team limiting jobs to two classes to pick CC from. If the development team dropped either ARC or LNC from the MCH's CC pick, it'd mean losing out on potentially powerful buffs that help make the MCH stay on par with other DPS when played correctly. Dropping ARC means losing Raging Strikes, Hawk's Eye, and Quelling Strikes while dropping LNC means no Feint, Keen Flurry, Blood for Blood, or Invigorate.
While you may not use all of the CC from either of these classes, switching the classes just for a single skill means you lose out on more than you gain.
Besides, there are enough "OSNAP" buttons for healers that all Second Wind does most of the time is really make healing you up slightly less difficult. -
12-10-2015, 01:49 AMG-HandI assume that you are looking at this as a DRG because DRG scales off of STR, but as a BRD when I look at attack power it scales off of DEX, at least last time i checked.Quote:
"Cure Potency varies with current attack power."
If you look at your strength stat, and then down at attack power stat, you'll note they're the same. The only time this will change is when you have something that buffs your attack power, hence the "current" condition (fairly certain that means most buffs to damage, but not buffs that lower resistances like Disembowel).
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12-10-2015, 02:18 AMApeironYou, sir, would be accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Hand
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12-10-2015, 07:58 AMGamer3427Ah. My bad. I could have sworn that it used to say "Cure Potency varies with Strength Stat".....Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCookTM
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12-11-2015, 08:22 AMAmiaze
No longer maining MCH for several reasons (one of them being that the job feels slighted, as Third said), but I would also like an official response concerning this. Also, will it ever be changed?
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12-20-2015, 06:36 AMAmiaze
Bumping to maintain visibility.
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12-21-2015, 03:07 AMJonnycbad
Here are a few suggestions, any one of them would suffice.
1) Adding in a new ability, call it "First-Aid" or "Battle Med", it would functionally be like a Second Wind. "First-Aid" is a common ability in many FF games, usually for basic jobs.
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/F..._%28ability%29
2) When Hot Shot is used with a stack of Ammunition, the MCH is healed by 100% of the damage dealt by the Hot Shot.
3) Reassemble gains this property in addition to ensuring critical damage to the next weapon skill: Damage dealt will be absorbed as HP, up to 10% of maximum HP.
4) Ability called Transfusion: Sacrifices your turret and disables Deploy for 30 seconds. An AoE heal, equal to the Turret's remaining HP will be split amongst party members in range and heal up to 10% of their Max HP.
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/S..._%28ability%29 -
12-21-2015, 03:13 AMfm_fenrirI like this one the best, it stays in the theme of cross-classing from LNC and keeps the heal on a long-ish CD. Making Hot Shot your main healing skill is also a nice thought, but you can Quick every 15 seconds and while Hot Shot isn't terribly strong, that's still more HPS than any DPS not using blood bath would get. It might justify that stupid 80TP cost, though...Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnycbad
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12-21-2015, 04:42 PMCarstien
Second Wind is attack based, I'm reasonably sure.
If it were str based then you would be lucky to get 500 out of it as a nin. The proof is in berserk, it affects second wind. Now go read berserk and tell me how much str it gives you. -
12-22-2015, 03:45 AMMisurugiQuote:
Originally Posted by Jonnycbad
absolutely love this one... saw someone give a suggestion of just combining the rend mind and dismantle into one skill and giving us a straight up heal skill that's left over from the spot, would like that to happen more then anything else cause SE has given us no way to tell wat kind of dmg is delt to us i've seen magic attack animations do physical dmg instead and physical attack animations do magic dmg.. i mean come on wtf. -
12-24-2015, 06:24 AMArchaellIt would be nice if these two situational skills which share CD got merged and we got heal shot or regeneration shot instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Misurugi
A little bit more support wouldn't hurt. -
12-25-2015, 02:14 AMMukkuMerlotteI would love it if transfusion functioned similar to promotion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Misurugi
Rook: Disables attacks but automatically targets lowest HP party member (with self always being first if <25% HP) and consumes turrets remaining HP OR users MP to single target lowest HP Members in order
Bishop: AoE pulse heal until turret is depleted of HP
Hypercharge while doing this would do the full duration of either effect in one pulse / maybe buff healing for 15 seconds similar to mantra?
Bards have access to mantra so this basically puts us on even footing.