Would a VR-type practice dungeon be a reasonable compromise?

I believe there are honest players out here who feel the need for parsers to gauge their performance. Let there be no doubt about that. What's being planned for 3.2 sounds like a step in the right direction, but only a step.

I believe there may be a middle ground that will satisfy those who want to experiment and test their performance as well as disabuse those of us who are averse to the potential drama a parser in dungeons/raids can harbor.

A VR dungeon, I believe, seems like something that would more readily replicate actual dungeon/raid mechanics without the pressure of wiping. A Light/Full Party can set the difficulty levels, go in to practice whatever they feel the need to work on, and receive an analysis on their performances afterwards.

I do believe something like this would assist in people who genuinely want to improve their job performance (Key word: want).

While I do like the idea of a practice mode, and I don't doubt that a well executed one could be beneficial, I can't imagine just how much effort and development time this would take to actually implement.

You wouldn't just need a "dungeon", you'd need a room where you can test out various phases/mechanics from bosses and measure DPS while doing it, so, a training room. This training room has to be able to draw from a myriad of relevant mechanics/situations, to help people get an accurate estimate of how they or others are performing DPS-wise whilst mechanics are present. You'd have to develop a means to spawn these mechanics, an interface that is easy enough to use and understand for controlling these things, graphics to properly display the training room, maybe some unique NPCs and quests and texts explaining how to use all of it, AND official parsing software that can only be used for this situation.

Alternatively. You just develop an official parser and add it to the game. You'd be able to spend the development time elsewhere.

I understand that some people have a great aversion to potential parser-related drama, (IMO, a very unfounded aversion). But I just don't think that an alternative as costly as this is justifiable. Not when you already have the means and ability to solve player disputes.

A challenge to implement. But a question really is poor dps affecting the community so much that they need to build a simulator to allow players to test their dps output?

If I were playing on a PS4, I'd want to be able to see what kind of damage I'm doing in varying situations, across any situation I feel like checking. E.g. I want a personal parser.

As for parsing other people, I couldn't care less. I'd like to have most people know what they're doing by level 60, but that's more than just their raw DPS output anyways (hitting the correct target would be a close second, or, where immunities are involved, first). A sort of 'proving grounds' that must be passed before people can queue for certain things would probably reduce the chance of those rare but particularly painful DF parties, but I don't need to know what DPS they're doing. Their enmity meters +/- threat drops can give me their comparative values just fine. If anything I'd just the option for like instant casts / weaponskills / abilities to briefly show what was just used (on focus and/or party bars), similar to spell casts. I could then easily track the rotation of someone I'm training without having to keep an eye on their every animation.

If they're to spend development time for a VR-type practice dungeon (e.g. WoD's 'proving grounds', etc), I'd hope that some of its costs/assets could at least be reused for a randomized-encounter arena-type dungeon later on.

My issue with 'training rooms' is that you can't simulate a raid environment without it being the raid itself. Certain mechanics? Sure. But you also practice these in the raid itself, in a real environment.

I'd much prefer they just add a parser already and stop hand holding where it's not needed.

Too much work for little gain. My opinion a good compromise is an always available personal parser and a group toggle option (like master looter) for preformed groups. That way it is an option for the groups who want it and isn't in DF where I imagine most of the fears are coming from.

Didnt devs mention ( before HW came out ) that they have plans to implement Raid/Trial training ?

Selecting and training a specific phase of a fight ? Im sure ive read that somewhere,

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CUTS3R

Didnt devs mention ( before HW came out ) that they have plans to implement Raid/Trial training ?

Selecting and training a specific phase of a fight ? Im sure ive read that somewhere,

---

Yeah they did. Its on the Niconico site too. https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/12...284-25-4-26%29

The specifications are already planned for the "practice mode" for raid dungeons. However, the implementation won't be simultaneous with the release of the raid dungeon itself, it will be a little behind. (Yoshida)

This isn't a middle ground at all. The training mode is obviously more skewed towards mechanics than it is towards the specifics of DPS. While the ability to execute your optimized rotation while handling mechanics is something that can be improved by this mode, if there is something wrong with your optimized rotation to begin with, it's not going to help. Even if it implements a tight DPS check to gauge the efficiency of your rotation, how many people are going to think it's a problem with their mechanic execution rather than their basic rotation?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pence

My issue with 'training rooms' is that you can't simulate a raid environment without it being the raid itself. Certain mechanics? Sure. But you also practice these in the raid itself, in a real environment.

I'd much prefer they just add a parser already and stop hand holding where it's not needed.

---

the training is not for practicing mechanics.
It's to help people practice their rotation better.
when people understand their rotation better, they can start getting used to knowing what to use in raid situation.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Derio

A challenge to implement. But a question really is poor dps affecting the community so much that they need to build a simulator to allow players to test their dps output?

---

Yes. I'm willing to bet that most players who suck only suck because they don't know that they... suck. Because the game does a poor job of telling you and fellow players aren't allowed to 3rd-party-parse you to tell you. We don't necessarily need an overly complicated training room, but we certainly need an accurate way to measure performance that isn't against the ToS.

While I have known many players from other mmos who use parsers in a cruel way to sort of bully and rule I am all for a personal parser in game as I would be more concerned about my numbers more so than anyone elses I can see why the hesitation to add one, but I am for it if used right.

The kind of people that are doing less than 700 DPS won't enter a practice mode.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Derio

A challenge to implement. But a question really is poor dps affecting the community so much that they need to build a simulator to allow players to test their dps output?

---

oh god yes it really does. Too many people are bad with dps it is not even funny anymore.

Honestly, these compromise solutions are much more likely to cause issues than having everything up front. You'll have everything a group parser gets in terms of drama in addition to a host of other issues, such as (but not limited to):

1. People demanding screenshots be emailed or sent in some fashion of your parse for PF's
2. People lying about their parse in the practice dungeon in order to gain entry into PF's
2a. Lying people will hold the team back, will be outed and will receive much worse shaming than could be expected in a full parser.
2b. Lying people will start to yell at other players in the party in order to hide that they are underperforming, citing their fake numbers as evidence to their claims
3. Frustrations of leaders, raiders and general players trying to progress without being able to see what is the problem at the time the problem occurs
4. General frustrations all around that you cannot see your performance when you want to, but you know you can at other times

Ultimately, it will lead to increased frustration, increased segregation and increased abuse/harassment.

Beyond all of the above issues it will cause, it won't help those of us who want to parse. Parsing is much more than practicing a set rotation. Ask anyone who has a parse in game if they can hold their 'dummy parse' in any content. Further, ask if their DPS changes from content to content, it does. That's because differing mechanics need you to use skills in differing situations/orders etc. You learn the fight with your job and improve, and you can see if you actually are improving via a parser. You can test things to see, 'oh look, I went up by 100 DPS that run! I know I'm doing better now.' The counter-argument is you can see if the fight is going further.. Really, you can't. What if one of your teammates under-performs on the same run you did better? Can you really tell if you did that much better if you wiped at 21% instead of 24%, was that all you or did your team do something? The parser can help you realize this.

I strongly don't support the idea of a personal parser, practice area or anything like this.

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate trying to compromise, but I just feel compromises such as this will do more harm than good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by hagare

It's to help people practice their rotation better.

---

this is only a fraction of it. a person may be able to memorize each and every step in a cookie cutter rotation, but what happens when other elements are thrown at people? for example the target breaks off, say like titan jumps. how aware of detriment to dps will some people be picking up where they last left off? or starting over fresh each and every time? a parser gives people a tool for trial and error, and for fine tuning of every element of encounters