I just feel like these two things should go hand in hand. Alex Savage isn't competitive anymore. 100's of groups have cleared by now. Is there really any need for it to be locked? You're giving everyone the gear to raid (Void Ark, Hunts, Diadem), but most people are still tied to their statics and can't or don't want to waste their 2 chest runs on PUGs.
I fear that when the next Savage tier comes out, all that'll be required is A4S and no one will care for the other raid floors. I don't want to miss out on raids, but you give us these catch-up patches but not the resources to full utilize the new gear.
If you can sit in the Diadem for hours and get broken 210 gear, why is it so bad if people farmed A1S for accessories?
Please unlock raids when you do the catch up patches.
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11-30-2015, 03:10 AMJubez187@SE, For the next "catch-up" patch, please unlock the raid as well
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11-30-2015, 03:50 AMKarstenSAhaha Hahahahaha Hoi.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubez187
Reallity is more like this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Remus
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11-30-2015, 04:05 AMTintthere are 1463 Gobwalker in game. not everyone in every group that has cleared A4S has this mount, but i think we can say there are around 200 groups who have cleared savage. not hundreds, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by KarstenS
OP you have to understand that the diadem items are locked behind a massive RNG. so you need time and luck. the raidgear on the other hand is a 100% loot (because of the tokens). so we have a skill and a time based system. i think this is fine. and still the only 210 weapons are from A4S.
the only problem is that the diademgear can be way better than the raidgear. that's a problem. i think it's because we can meld materia into raidgear in 3.2 and the diademgear is good as this melded raidgear we don't have yet (so they don't have to make a new system for the diadem-gear-stats in 3 months). -
11-30-2015, 04:26 AMJubez187But is there really a need to keep it locked? Progression goes to shiznit whenever these catch up patches happen. It really seems to just keep people away from raiding even more than they are already staying away from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tint
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11-30-2015, 04:56 AMSnugglesDFirst, even if your lofty number of 1600 people have cleared it, that\\'s still <.5% of the endgame player base of about 500,000 players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubez187
Second, how does putting it in DF help progression? Its not the kind of content you\\'re going to clear with a bunch of randos you\\'ll never play with again.
If you want to raid, you\\'re going to have to be at least a little social about it. Start a PF learning party. Ask your FC for help. See if you can put together a static.
Raiding isn\\'t for the antisocial DF segment of players. In my experience, people who want to DF it just want to sit back and be silent, never acknowledge or own up to their mistakes, and vote abandon after 3 wipes. Not saying that\\'s you, but that\\'s what you\\'ll run into. You can\\'t clear anything that way.
Just suck it up and reach out. There a tons of people in the same situation. -
11-30-2015, 05:44 AMDyvid
I'll counter with Alex:N and Alex:S should be unlocked at the same time. Why? So people who want to do Savage don't have to spoil the story/fight by doing it in Normal first. It gives the freedom to players to complete which ever version they want.
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11-30-2015, 05:48 AMraela
I think the OP meant remove the weekly loot lockout, not throw it in DF.
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11-30-2015, 05:51 AMKurogaeaIt seems that way for you since your server is less in player numbers. overloaded ones have alot of players who didn't even attempt savage yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubez187
But yeah they should unlock the savage runs in the df, its just silly not to after its been out for so long. :/ -
11-30-2015, 06:20 AMArchaell
I support your suggestion op.
Removing the lockouts and putting it in DF would increase the numbers of players trying it.
I don't think many players are going to be interested in it once the new tomestones hit the shelves. -
11-30-2015, 06:29 AMReddAxel
Yes please. Our static only raids on weekends, and as of late this hasn't been working out because people have in real life situations to attend to, meaning less raid time for us. If people aren't here, we can't raid. No lockout would mean we could at least pug people who are available and get practice in.
This is why we were able to clear Thordan Ex within the first week, but haven't cleared A3S yet X_x -
11-30-2015, 07:26 AMxvshanevxJust wanna quickly state that many people buy AS3 and AS4 clears for both mounts, gears, and clears. So you cannot account every that has a mount actually being in the raiding scene.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tint
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11-30-2015, 07:51 AMKarstenSWas sleepy. Saw "100%", not "100's"Quote:
Originally Posted by Tint
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11-30-2015, 08:32 AMRyuko
Even with better gear or echo, A3S and A4S will be major headaches for people because of the mechanics involved. I think A1S and A2S can be done without much discussion (and even in DF groups, no issue) as long as everyone understands the fight and their individual role.
I don't think these fights should be nerfed because this is the 'one thing' that is meant to challenge the raiding community. That said, I think Thordan: Ex is a little bit more difficult than anyone anticipated. The DPS/healing/tank checks on this fight are pretty tight, assuming you don't have the best of the best gear. Also, the mechanics are really familiar for folks who know Coil, but not so much for people who didn't do Coil. So, the learning curve is really dependent on that. I enjoyed the difficulty of Thordan: Ex, but I could see them nerfing this fight to make it more accessible to the general playerbase.
I think what the OP said is exactly why SE is going to keep some stuff gated. They made an easier Alexander so that people could still see/enjoy the story without having to deal with the headache of raiding. This was a huge complaint regarding Coil -- a storyline so central to the transition between 1.0 and 2.0, yet few people were able to do it without serious help (if they didn't have time/care to raid).
I think a mistake was making Alexander easy TOO easy. It was so easy that you could basically ignore (most) mechanics and be okay. There were just a few gimmicks you absolutely could not ignore. I think the general public could have dealt with a more difficult 'easy' raid... even Void Ark seemed more challenging than the easy mode of Alex.
For the future... I anticipate the easy mode of the next level of Alex to be a bit more challenging. This will get the general playerbase more interested, and they won't be able to clear it within a week and then just grind it out until they don't care about the gear anymore (which is basically outdated compared to Eso/VA gear). -
11-30-2015, 08:51 AMJim_BerryPeople like me are locked behind restrictions. I have no access to TeamSpeak, and MANY groups run on weekends (I work 3p-11p Thursday thru Sunday). That said, Diadem is where I get my iLv210 gear without the need of TeamSpeak or a static, and I can go during MY times. I have yet to clear A1S even though I have knowledge as both NIN and PLD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubez187
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11-30-2015, 09:05 AMUBERHAXEDOr maybe it's because Thordan is easier??!!Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddAxel
Uh... what are we even comparing too? DPS checks and tank checks are non-existent. They literally threw a mechanic in that required you to bring a second tank as a body instead of 5 DPS. DPS check is as "tight" as AS1, which can be cleared 6 minutes earlier than enrage right now. Enrage is 11 minutes for Thordan BTW. You can literally stop DPS for a few seconds to do mechanics. I'm not too sure about heal checks, it's about as heavy as any other content we've seen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuko
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11-30-2015, 09:15 AMGamer3427You can get DF groups that will wait until 3 wipes? You must be getting pretty lucky then. It's usually a 2 wipe max before people start abandoning or kicking in my experience, even on difficult content that you're meant to wipe multiple times on without a perfect group.....Quote:
Originally Posted by SnugglesD
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11-30-2015, 09:39 AMRyukoI really don't consider the 'hard' enrage as the real enrage, because if people fail mechanics (and they often do), they'll have weakness by the time you get to the AoE damage phase followed by the knight (dps check) in the middle with the tether on Thordan. If your healers aren't already OOM by this point, it will be hard for them to keep up weakened people regardless because the group will take heavy AoE damage just a second or two before the central knight's AoE triggers. It basically requires the healers to get the group capped twice (with extra mitigation for weakened people). It's very rare I've ever seen a group get past this point simply because of weakness/gear/mp (and this situation will ONLY happen if your dps is slow -- so, it's likely most people are weakened at this point). Almost every group I've seen clear has had to do it before the knight in the center even spawns. This fight is not as forgiving as other extremes in this sense. Granted, it's easy to carry people through the fight, but only if (most) people are on point. Even in farm groups that were clearing consistently, I would almost always see one person dying on every single run.Quote:
Originally Posted by UBERHAXED
What's even more amazing/ridiculous about this is I have done it with people currently working on A3S, and it still takes them hours (or DAYS) to grasp it... showing just how easy AS1 and AS2 are compared to AS3 and Thordan Ex. Again, I enjoyed the fight -- but I could see them nerfing it in some way. They always add echo to 'extreme' fights, but I wouldn't be surprised if other mechanics were slightly tweaked to be more forgiving. -
11-30-2015, 09:48 AMFelisSo long they don't nerf it down before the newer Alex is ingame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurogaea
Let DF pug parties hit the content with their heads, if they want ^^
But don't come to the forum and demand nerfs before 3.2 -
11-30-2015, 11:19 AMReddAxelThat isn't the point. Point being we were able to continue getting practice in because we could pug people, even if they didn't have the best DPS we could practice mechanics. Our group only raids on weekends, the people who are online during the weekdays can't even get in any other practice in savage due to the loot lockout. We don't wanna screw our static out of loot. Thordan allowed us to pick up people anytime and whenever we wanted to.Quote:
Originally Posted by UBERHAXED
If we could get the same amount of practice time in A3S as we did Thordan then we probably could have cleared by now. Once Alex Savage is off weekly lockout we'll be able to do just that. -
11-30-2015, 11:24 AMDeathscythe343This seems very likely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaell
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11-30-2015, 01:09 PMArrak
Unlocking Savage would be fun, not just for people catching up, but for raiders as well. It sucks that we get one attempt at each boss every week and we aren't able to freely experiment with jobs more to improve our clear speeds. Hell, I'd be for unlocked Savage with loot lock out. After raid is done, all we have left is Diadem and Thordan or helping people with half loot clears. I'd like to go back in there and play around without worry that if we clear it, that's it for the week for that particular group of 8. For groups like mine that cleared before the patch, but still farming mounts for people, it'd allow us to get our farming out of the way without worry, and be able to go back and wipe over and over until we get desirable dps.
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11-30-2015, 01:23 PMUBERHAXEDI seriously doubt that this would happen. Why waste time doing a raid over and over for your next clear to be be faster, when you can just try to speed it up on your next clear. If you really want to go in again, then we already have the ability to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrak
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11-30-2015, 01:32 PMArrakBecause FFlogs farming is fun?Quote:
Originally Posted by UBERHAXED
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11-30-2015, 02:25 PMBrian_The fight is already very forgiving compared to all of Savage -- A1S and A2S included. And, so what if it took people currently progressing through A3S a few days to grasp the mechanics of Thordan EX? How long do you think it takes most groups to grasp the mechanics of A3S? It's not just a few days. For many groups, it has been a few months.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuko
I think most people wedge Thordan EX in between A1S / A2S and A3S. The thing to remember is that is with CURRENT raid standards. A1S, A2S were both harder than Thordan EX at their release. Thordan EX is only harder than A1S and A2S now -- months after A1S and A2S were actually considered difficult raid content.
I think you are being naively optimistic with what type of practice you will get through DF and PF. First, if your DPS is sub-par on A3S, you won't be able to practice mechanics because the majority of the fight is gated behind DPS. Second, the mechanics in A3S require group coordination and one person messing up will wipe you.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddAxel
My static also had attendance issues when we were progressing through A3S. It was rare to actually get quality practice in with our subs and our subs were of a much better quality than the randoms on DF and PF. -
11-30-2015, 04:38 PMAirgetIf you unlock raids, then what's the point of doing the catch up content? Why go into the 24 man raid for the i200 gear that is a weekly lockout when you could just do Savage and swim in the i210?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubez187
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11-30-2015, 04:41 PMArchaellThat's the important part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Airget
Not everybody is good enough to clear the savage, so the catching up is still needed for a big part of the player base. -
11-30-2015, 04:54 PMKarstenSNope. Void Ark is one of the most brain dead contents I've seen till now. Only the tentacle boss is a little bit interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryuko
There is no enrage timer. This fight is fully scripted. The Enrage is part of this script.Quote:
Originally Posted by UBERHAXED
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11-30-2015, 04:56 PMKuwagamiHuh ? I'd be curious to know if anyone has achieved a 7 men clear of AS4. Because that's the requirement if you want to sell itQuote:
Originally Posted by xvshanevx
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11-30-2015, 05:02 PMKarstenSAccount sharing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuwagami
Every kill sell group do it this way till they get a way to 7 man it. -
11-30-2015, 09:37 PMHellboy-sacome to me after you kill A1S at least no single i210 gordian gear by now coolQuote:
Originally Posted by Jubez187
and say its not hard enough